Remove Doom's Unit

[Marvel]

Name: Marvel

 

RP Rank: Private

 

Suggestion: Remove Doom’s Unit

 

Implementation: Deploy Commander Doom and his men to Ringo Vinda in search of that 501st clout

 

Lore: N/A

 

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Other: Obviously this stems from a multitude of reasons. In the opinions of many there are quite a lot of battalions, factions, and groups on the server that split our playerbase very thin as is. Removing a battalion will reallocate a good number of people among all these different groups. Doom’s Unit in its current state is the most logical as it has consistently been the most problematic battalion on the server for a very long time. It’s numbers have always struggled and it’s reputation has never been that great to be completely honest. At best all they add to the server is a little bit of diversity (which we already have a ton) and shields. Battalion diversity right now is really just the paint job of your armor due to there not being any battalion buffs so really we aren’t losing anything major to the server besides shields which can easily be given out to another battalion or a certain job in every battalion like HVO or HVY. CG is definitely a viable choice to receive shields as they already share them with DU a little. All in all removing Doom’s Unit might be the best option.

I’ve talked with quite a few people regarding this subject and I have personally been an advocate for removing a battalion or two for a long time now. I truly believe more battalions would be better off if there were less battalions to stretch our playbase thin. On the last remove DU post which was handled poorly I did come to DU’s defense in a way but mainly because of how bad the suggestion was taken care of. For a long time now DU hasn’t been extremely popular with the community and I can’t even count how many times I have been involved in conversations where DU is talked down upon and someone almost always brings up “Why not just remove it”. Ultimately in the end I do agree with most of these people. However a very good argument is that 21st was on the chopping block and they got a second chance. This is very true but being completely honest I don’t think it entirely worked. I do believe it helped wash away their very terrible mindsets however the battalion itself still can barely keep good numbers and their activity is all over the place. At the end of the day I don’t think the 21st wipe solved anything besides getting rid of some deep scars on the battalion. There are still just too many battalions on the server and of these two battalions I believe DU has always struggled more than 21st making it the logical choice.

Also removing a battalion will open up the opportunity to potentially replace it later on in the future with something new. Synergy hasn’t had a new battalion in a very long time and adding something new and fresh can really be a good thing. Heck it doesn’t even need to be another clone battalion. We could look at another faction or something along the lines. Though this would obviously be talked about way down the line if removing one battalion proved to improve the other battalions with numbers and activity. DU Is again the logical choice because they have very few numbers when compared to the rest of the battalions. They’re at an all time low and it would be best to do it now rather than allowing someone else to go in and give it their all, only for the battalion to die again and lead us right back here.

Currently DU is on the rise again due to the assistance of High Command stepping in and taking the reins however DU has gotten back on it’s feet in the past only to be knocked down again extremely easily. A lot of these people joining are typically joining because they can gain something from this whole ordeal whether it be rank or power. As soon as High Command leaves the battalion to focus on their other responsibilities I guarantee the battalion will not last long. Even if maybe the first BCMD after HC steps away does decently the next one can easily do very poorly and the community will just grab their pitchforks again and call for their removal. The recent events should not be used as an argument as to why DU should not be removed. It is honestly too late at this point and a repeat of what happened to 21st will not solve anything either.

Finally the main reason I have come to the conclusion that this might be the best course of action is I have actually thought about going in and helping DU. Maybe even apply for BCMD but I think the community has honestly already decided that DU just isn’t worth it. I feel like anyone could come in and save the battalion but if the next BCMD or the next one after that fails to deliver on the community’s high expectations we’ll just be back at square one and everyone will be hoping for it’s removal once again. Which is extremely likely at this rate. I know that every battalion goes through their phases where they’re active and thriving or they’re inactive and struggling but the reason this happens is because of the amount of different battalions and factions we have. This will never be solved unless we start trimming some of the fat.

Also this suggestion by no means is to offend anyone in DU, past or present. I know a lot of people have put a ton of blood, sweat, and tears into that battalion but honestly it’s a never ending cycle at this point. I don’t believe it is healthy to continue to allow battalions to constantly go through these phases where they’re either doing decent/meh to really bad. Please do not flame DU or it's members in the comments below and be courteous. Put yourself in their shoes. I am open to any debates on this topic either here on the forums, discord, and TS. If you need to reach me on discord my user is Ruusaar#1337

[A-a-ron]

Battalion is always struggling, no matter what +1

[SEXICO]

[Conrad]

I won't vote yes or no to this, as I do plan on putting in a lot of effort in an attempt to revitalize the battalion. In general however, I will say that I believe they have a bit of gas left in the tank, and I want to see how it plays out one last time at the very least. Within the last 24 hours I've seen a lot of passionate individualist that truly care about the battalion, and I feel like it would be a disservice to not do what I can to set them up for success to the best of my ability. I will do this any way I can for as long as I can. One of the many ways i'm looking at is an update to all systems inside DU, as I've heard a lot of complaints that it feels like the battalion is stuck 3 years ago. However, If it gets to the point where I think we can't do this anymore, then i'll say something to directors and what not and we'll discuss removal. But for now, seeing the passion I've seen recently, I definitely can't +1 this without feeling like I'm kicking those passionate individuals that have shown a great care for the battalion to me.

[Bacta]

15 minutes ago, Conrad said:

 

+1

Edited March 10, 2022 by Bacta

[BigZach]

Uh... +1 no comment

[Marvel]

3 minutes ago, Conrad said:

 Please refer to the bottom of the post

[Slak]

Honestly, I believe not removing it is just delaying the inevitable. I love the battalion with all my heart and really have the passion for it. I always want to help it, but after reading this post. Wow. I am blown away by this. I am not going to vote yet as I haven't thought about it rather just speaking my mind, but honestly really think this is a reoccurring topic of interest when it comes to "removing DU." To be honest if it's always going to reach a state of depression when a BCMD is removed or someone of leadership leaves, then why keep it? Even when I was Doom my main priority towards the end of my term was to avoid that but yet again it's just the battalion itself and the way it's held in the server, so it's really hard to continue to strive for that unless it's given the ol'21st treatment or just plain out removed.

[Noodles]

+1, it’s unfortunate this had to happen but if you ask me, it’s not going to get better. With the state it’s In, DU is holding on to dear life. Anyone who is going to go for BCMD is most likely going to be shot down because of the whole 1-1 transfer up to XO going on right now and For the people coming in to help they are “trying to make ice cream out of poop”. Not a dig at anyone trying to go help. I actually respect and admire people who dropped their former battalions to go help.  It’s just really thinking about it. It’s the right choice. 

[Ccmonty]

After thinking it over im changing to a -1. all of what i said still applies but i think DU gets one more chance. however ONE more chance. if they cant keep it together after high command leaves then i still say go ahead and pull the trigger

 

I mean no disrespect to any current or former DU when I say this but: DU is a filler battalion. If you get to have TWO battalion exclusive perks (three back when every battalion had stat buffs) and you can't hold maintain good numbers without higher ups then you have a problem. DU has also been the battalion thats always first to come up when the topic of axeing a battalion comes up and even though 327th, 91st, 38th, and 187th all took its place on the chopping block instead, the fact I saw DU come up consistently every single time is very telling. Give the shield to heavy (because the one perk they actually get is dogshit) and deploy DU permanently 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Ccmonty

[Dennis]

Alright resident Dooms Unit Founder Dennis here. So as we can all expect -1 dumb suggestion

1. Removing battalions to "add something" is a dumb theory come to the table with something you want added then, battalion faction etc. Don't just start screaming bloody murder battalion dead cuz its dealing with low numbers. Everyone is like this because high command has taken such a public front in this. The same suggestion could have been posted for Rancor, or 41st, or 21st, 104th whoever is "dead" at the time. It just happens to be Dooms Unit right now, marvel you of anyone should know battalions come and go and only 501st and 212th and 1 or 2 others really pop off and do well while one is dead and the others struggle to fight for the middle of the pack. 

2. "Too many battalions" is a lame excuse for what is considerably a lower player pop currently. We struggle to retain players and gain new ones that stay. GMOD is a old as balls game and not a lot of people want to play it or come to it. While we do get CT's and new players they have a lot of options to choose from and that's not a bad thing. Having a variety isn't bad, yes some things wont be as popular but you still have people who don't want to run in a main stream battalion. 

3. Wipe, BCMD apply whatever it wont truly fix the issue that doing these things only helps for a short while. Battalions do well when they have strong leadership that can help set up the future. When i came back as doom that is what I did, three pretty successful doom terms for the most part, what has really taken a toll on the battalion is people having IRL issues and having to take a step back. 

TLDR: this is such a knee jerk reaction to a long standing problem the server has faced since i joined back in 2018 of battalions being active and some being not, its just not DU's "time right now" they have their moments and so do other battalions. The problem isn't the amount of battalions its, keeping players and not forcing them out because we don't "like them" or trying to get CT's / new recruits to come back. That is where the key lies in the success of the server. Not in removing battalions cuz they are having a hard time and people have to focus on their real lives. Its time for the community to not sit here and push for removal but to take this as an opportunity to learn, help grow the community and expand their knowledge and break the clique they always run in. Try something new enjoy different aspects of the server and not push to remove unique things from the server after one BCMD application gets denied. 

[Razen]

-1 

Heyo, its Razen, I been around the block recently and I want to put my point out there onto why we need to keep DU. To anyone that wants to say DU is a "filler" battalion or a "extra battalion just taking up space" then you are totally wrong. Dooms Unit has been on the server for quite some time now, and Ill admit yes its had its moments. The first main reason is the heart of the battalion itself. This Battalion still contains some solid people that have made some sort of positive presence within the battalion. People are currently grinding their ass off attempting to save the battalion that is 10 feet away from its downfall. You've got people sitting here recruiting and non stop training, and continuously mentoring others around them to make the Battalion a more serious place to come to, as well as a more enjoyable environment within the server. Yall gonna sit here and talk about activity when today itself our singular line in debrief damn near outnumbered the entirety of the server in the debrief, in the middle of prime time on a Wednesday. Regardless of numbers, you have people desperately panicking to do everything they can to help save the battalion that they have ever so loved since being on the server. There is people that have put countless hours into Dooms Unit, and some legendary people that have come out of this battalion after countless hours of work and grind as well as dedication. And honestly, how you gonna drop this post right when DU is finally getting the help it needed?! I may have been in this battalion for not even 24 hours but the amount of fight they still have left in them is too much to give up on them now. Obviously everyone has an opinion, so I feel as if someone attempting to say "removing DU will help balance battalion numbers out more" doesn't sound accurate whatsoever. If DU is "inactive" then how does that even affect the other battalions numbers? Nobody is being forced to join this battalion, but I've seen to much heart and grind within the inside of the Battalion to give up on them just yet. Patience seems to be a big problem sometimes on this server, and when nobody can wait for something they will not hesitate to go to the forums and make it worse. I will not change this vote as one too many people have had an effect on this battalion, and removing it is already basically getting more people out of a community that needs the new members.

[OneClick]

-1 More variety, more action

[Marvel]

32 minutes ago, Dennis said:

marvel you of anyone should know battalions come and go and only 501st and 212th and 1 or 2 others really pop off and do well while one is dead and the others struggle to fight for the middle of the pack. 

Yes I know this and I acknowledge it in my suggestion. This cycle has been around even back when the server hit 128 players consistently and it's just not healthy. Why allow this cycle to continue where battalions are just constantly struggling only to have maybe 3 months of the year where they're doing maybe a little okay? The server pop is much lower now and the best solution for this issue is less battalions so that the players aren't spread so thin. I would much prefer to see less battalions where they can have at least 5+ members on each rather than having a ton of battalions where with our numbers some battalions will barely even have one member online.

I personally didn't choose DU to be on the chopping block because any of the recent CMD application drama or whatever has been happening. Honestly if it were up to me I would go as far as to remove 2 or 3 battalions because yes there may be variety but what good does variety do if all there is that differentiates battalions are the color of their armor. Yes battalions have their moments but in the time that I have been on the server DU has struggled the most. It takes old heads applying for Doom for the battalion to thrive for maybe 3 months, their term ends, and the battalion goes right back into the gutter.

DU is on the rise currently but because High Command is being so hands on with the battalion. None of the people that have recently joined DU would have joined if High Command wasn't involved and there is nothing to guarantee that after High Command steps away from DU that they won't just fall back down again. No other battalion has gotten this treatment and yeah other battalions have gone through similar scenarios of low numbers and inactive members. 21st is the only other example and that was Founder interference for more reasons than just activity and numbers.

This is a never ending cycle.

[Xylops]

There are countless Individuals who are all trying to make sure that DU doesn't go Six Feet Under and this Post doesn't help. I'd say more but I think my point is clear
-1

[Razen]

19 minutes ago, Marvel said:

Honestly if it were up to me I would go as far as to remove 2 or 3 battalions because yes there may be variety but what good does variety do if all there is that differentiates battalions are the color of their armor.

Now this I cant agree with my good sir. I dont think its right at all to jus go out simply saying battalions are differenced from their color. there so much more to it and that statement is incorrect because of it. Battalions are truly seperated by the people that are in it, the different sub units and trainings within them, the different battles they have fought in lore, the different objectives each battalion has and what they wanna accomplish truly seperate all these different groups of people on the server. Theres more reasons then that for sure, but those are some main ones I wanted to mention. DU has a goal, and objectives, and wants to shine like the other battalions around them. Also Id like to point out that I also disagree with the "people joining because of high command", and honestly I could give a rats ass if high command was involved in DU or not. I can name atleast 10 people that have recently joined that have come here to do nothing but help this battalion prosper and succeed since HC took over, and not because charge is being taken by High Command but because people have hearts and a love for this battalion, and they want nothing but to help and keep the battalion consistent in their duties. And being fair, I feel as if maybe a few people are going to try to take advantage and powerplay, but with HC overlooking everything nothing like that will be allowed to happen. Everything takes time, and if people can not wait for something to grow again how will we ever grow as a community again, especially if we cant wait for things to prosper and have a positive effect on the server. Yes, DU may not be as important as some other battalions, but it still has a huge role within the server and has people still putting their desperate time into it.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Razen

[Bonzai]

As someone who is currently trying to help Doom's Unit please give us time. The battalion was blindsided by stroodles departure and we are working hard to get back on track.

Respectfully -1

[Razen]

Sorry, but I dont wanna see this kind of a battalion be gone for good. Too much potential and too much work is being put in for that to happen.

[A-a-ron]

Just now, Razen said:

Sorry, but I dont wanna see this kind of a battalion be gone for good. Too much potential and too much work is being put in for that to happen.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, that will last for about 2 weeks. it always does

[Marvel]

11 minutes ago, Razen said:

Now this I cant agree with my good sir. I dont think its right at all to jus go out simply saying battalions are differenced from their color. there so much more to it and that statement is incorrect because of it. Battalions are truly seperated by the people that are in it, the different sub units and trainings within them, the different battles they have fought in lore, the different objectives each battalion has and what they wanna accomplish truly seperate all these different groups of people on the server. Theres more reasons then that for sure, but those are some main ones I wanted to mention. DU has a goal, and objectives, and wants to shine like the other battalions around them. 

I'm sorry but while some of this may be true it doesn't make a huge difference. People change and the culture of battalions change. Subunits aren't a huge difference either as most subunits are extremely similar setups just different models/names and systems. There are a few that are actually unique like 2ndAC and SO. Every battalion has their difference in structure and trainings but they're extremely miniscule differences that they mean nothing. Also using lore as an argument for DU which has literally none is ironic. DU has participated in one known battle. They add nothing unique from a lore standpoint. As for objectives the only difference there is from a regiment standpoint and only for Spec because Attack and Siege are literally one and the same. Every battalion wants to shine but that is increasingly difficult with our current player pop and the sheer amount of battalions, factions, and groups we have on the server. Without actual in game differences besides models and names there is no real variety. It's really just about fashion at that point.

19 minutes ago, Razen said:

Also Id like to point out that I also disagree with the "people joining because of high command", and honestly I could give a rats ass if high command was involved in DU or not. I can name atleast 10 people that have recently joined that have come here to do nothing but help this battalion prosper and succeed since HC took over, and not because charge is being taken by High Command but because people have hearts and a love for this battalion, and they want nothing but to help and keep the battalion consistent in their duties. And being fair, I feel as if maybe a few people are going to try to take advantage and powerplay, but with HC overlooking everything nothing like that will be allowed to happen. Everything takes time, and if people can not wait for something to grow again how will we ever grow as a community again, especially if we cant wait for things to prosper and have a positive effect on the server. Yes, DU may not be as important as some other battalions, but it still has a huge role within the server and has people still putting their desperate time into it.

This entire section to me is mind boggling. I can guarantee half of you would not have been in DU without all this commotion. I also do not believe you one bit when you say you and all these other people just love DU so much. If any of you did then how come you weren't in DU prior to all this? Some of you might genuinely want to help the battalion in it's current state but I do not for one second believe any of you outright love DU and see it as your home on the server. I'm not saying all of you are in it for ranks or power but it definitely isn't out of pure love for DU.

 

49 minutes ago, Banzai said:

As someone who is currently trying to help Doom's Unit please give us time. The battalion was blindsided by stroodles departure and we are working hard to get back on track.

Doom's Unit gets blindsided every time their BCMDs leave. No offense but y'all can't just keep asking people to be patient constantly for a reoccurring issue.

[Razen]

1 hour ago, Marvel said:

This entire section to me is mind boggling. I can guarantee half of you would not have been in DU without all this commotion. I also do not believe you one bit when you say you and all these other people just love DU so much. If any of you did then how come you weren't in DU prior to all this? Some of you might genuinely want to help the battalion in it's current state but I do not for one second believe any of you outright love DU and see it as your home on the server. I'm not saying all of you are in it for ranks or power but it definitely isn't out of pure love for DU.

Yes, I can say it definitely is pure love for DU, marvel. Its because of all the fun moments, and times Ive had around DU, and the amounts of times Ive laughed my ass of with different groups of people within DU throughout the years. The smaller memories that Ive cherished in the past and even of recent. Its a battalion that has always had its moments but have had amazing people run through it regardless, and I know damn well they didnt put in all the work just to have their battalion sent off like that. I can be honest yes I wasnt in DU prior, I was attempting to try something new with 501st and never truly realized DU was struggling until recently. As soon as that came to my attention I jumped to join and help in all ways I can, because it has held a solid presence on this server for years on end even through its moments. And if you are going to say "yall cant stop asking people to be patient" then how can anyone wait for anything to actually progress on the server?? Things take time and we've seen how long people have had to wait for updates/changes in the server to be made at points. The guys in DU are doing everything they can currently to make a mold in the battalion and setup the right leadership it needs so that these problems can be stopped from happening. I agree with where you are coming from about server pop and dividing people better, but it is hard to see any single battalion with 20-25 members on at a single time, that rarely happens. Times have changed, server numbers are lower now, and removing a battalion now is not simply just going to resolve more numbers being in other battalions... its more or less just taking away something creative and enjoyable within the server, even though it may not be either of those things in your point of view it is for others that have currently and previously played here.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Razen

[TheCyan]

Honestly, Im having a hard time -1ing. As both Dennis and you have mentioned battalion come and go except basically 501st and 212th (cause theyre the most shown in the show and blah blah blah).

But this suggestion easily could have been "Remove 1 battalion from the server". I feel as if this stems from the childish handling of DU at the moment and I don't think it would be fair to remove DU because they went monkey in it.

For example:

DU has almost no lore and has shields. Yes an option could be to remove DU and possible add a "Riot" branch to all (or most) battalions that have shield (Maybe like a 5 slot job).

21st has a lot of super specific sub units and branches. Sorry but nobody is going to miss KU and maybe SO will be missed as its the primary defense against cloakers. I guess you could make it that ARC or ARF can SEE cloaks, but SO is genuinely very unique. Otherwise, 21st could be removed to satisfy the reasoning of this suggestion.

CG handles AOSs, but why? Why not just have Staff handle all arrests and then merge CG into Naval via 5th Fleet (which we already have). Then, the "security" of the base falls in with Naval and the RP fits, while the minges are handled by staff. This could actually give NAs and/or As more shit to do on the server (have NAs and/or As spawn with a baton now they can arrest).

41st is basically just 91st. You could give BARCs to some other battalion and 41st could be removed. Improcco Company would be missed though.


I will rest with a -1 however I do see the reason to remove a battalion from the server. Personally, I think there should be a Director+ discussion to determine which battalions could be removed, then have a like community vote to determine what battalion the server could do without. Personally, I like the replacement of the current AOS system and removal of CG but that's for alter I guess.
I find it kind of unfair (although continent) for DU to be on the chopping block simply because the battalion went into a down state (as is the natural up and down of the server), have the situation handeled really really badly, and then remove them. 

[TheCyan]

5 hours ago, Marvel said:

I'm sorry but while some of this may be true it doesn't make a huge difference. People change and the culture of battalions change. Subunits aren't a huge difference either as most subunits are extremely similar setups just different models/names and systems. There are a few that are actually unique like 2ndAC and SO. Every battalion has their difference in structure and trainings but they're extremely miniscule differences that they mean nothing. Also using lore as an argument for DU which has literally none is ironic. DU has participated in one known battle. They add nothing unique from a lore standpoint. As for objectives the only difference there is from a regiment standpoint and only for Spec because Attack and Siege are literally one and the same. Every battalion wants to shine but that is increasingly difficult with our current player pop and the sheer amount of battalions, factions, and groups we have on the server. Without actual in game differences besides models and names there is no real variety. It's really just about fashion at that point.

This entire section to me is mind boggling. I can guarantee half of you would not have been in DU without all this commotion. I also do not believe you one bit when you say you and all these other people just love DU so much. If any of you did then how come you weren't in DU prior to all this? Some of you might genuinely want to help the battalion in it's current state but I do not for one second believe any of you outright love DU and see it as your home on the server. I'm not saying all of you are in it for ranks or power but it definitely isn't out of pure love for DU.

 

Doom's Unit gets blindsided every time their BCMDs leave. No offense but y'all can't just keep asking people to be patient constantly for a reoccurring issue.

Other than 212th and 501st (typically), this happens with basically EVERY battalion. A BCMD is a powerful icon and people always get excited when a BCMD gets put in and activity increases, and then when a BCMD resigns or term ends and there isnt an immediate new BCMD activity goes down.

Pretend this post merged with the post below idk why they seperated Im sorry for the double-posting

Edited March 10, 2022 by TheCyan

[TheCyan]

5 hours ago, Marvel said:

I can guarantee half of you would not have been in DU without all this commotion. I also do not believe you one bit when you say you and all these other people just love DU so much. If any of you did then how come you weren't in DU prior to all this?

They're only joining cause its funny imo this was the worst way to handle the situation. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Banzai said:

As someone who is currently trying to help Doom's Unit please give us time. The battalion was blindsided by stroodles departure and we are working hard to get back on track.

Tbh its bigger than just DU the suggestion stems from the need to actually remove a battalion from the server to have more people in all other batts. This suggestion could very well be 21st or 41st or whatever.

[Cox]

+1 @Eclipseafter months of saying at as a joke it’s happening 

 

ong tho there are so many better things you can add to the server than shields 

[Alec]

easy +1

[Misfit]

 

3 hours ago, TheCyan said:

This suggestion could very well be 21st or 41st or whatever.

this is way too true that its scary. (from what i know from the outside of 41st) all 2 of these battalions are in the same position but the only difference is 21st and 41st have a working HC while DU is in need of a rebuilding. Honestly we should give DU the 21st treatment, start from the bottom and build back up.  theres things trixx made in 2019 thats still in use to this day, not saying its bad or anything but thats a 3 year old document even if its "revamped" all the info is the same. 

With a good DEDICATED HC focused on the future of DU, it doesnt need to be removed. Even if its not Brooklyn, Dennis, Maddoxx, and Mitchel again, get a squad of great commanding officers together, wipe DU and demote everyone to privates and watch its rebuilding process. 21st is in a great spot compared to last year due to that and if it didnt happen this suggestion would probably be about 21st instead of DU. 

 

-1 give them the same chance we gave 21st, the only differences in the situations is DU isnt toxic and elitist, its just bad right now…… again. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Misfit
i didn’t actually vote LMAO

[Piff]

+1 even though some people may have a true love for DU, I don’t think they’ll actually leave if it gets removed, they say it than they end up staying, at the end of the day DU just has always been a up and down battalion you’ll never know where it’ll be in a few months which isn’t bad per say, but it’s notable in the way it has been like that, of course if you ask me removing battalions is easier said than done, I’d say take this into consideration if DU just fails to get anywhere once HC intervention is gone.

[Jayarr]

This is certainly and interesting suggestion.
There have been a few, if not multiple instances, where this topic has cropped up for DU. Over the years, quite numerous things have happened to the battalion itself that raise an otherwise questionable brow to its nature. I feel like I should maybe highlight these instances, as while they're not key fundamentals on how the battalion may behave today, they certainly are echoes of what it could be/already may be.

1. DU existed outside of the realm of our server, before we even had Synergy. On the prior server, there was a lot of misunderstandings and otherwise hatred targeted toward DU. This was typically held by misled feuds that often times resulted in the battalion maintaining a bad name for itself, thus detracting any new income of people willing to help. This has been the case multiple times on this server in the past, and in some instances I'm certain it is the case now. But this leads on to number 2.

2. When our server was created after the split from the other one, there was a decision made for which battalions would stay, and which would go. DU was obviously on that list, as not only was it an inactive battalion, but the people that surrounded it in its toxic image were still persistent. This lead to an overall dismissal of the battalion for the next year to come. What this accomplished is that it's image was completely wiped and its slate cleaned. When DU returned, not a single instance of any of its "prime" members returned. This will be expanded upon in 3.

3. Fast forward that year I mentioned, and Ginyu had won a bet with Joah to add the unit back to the server. The terms were agreed upon, solely if the BCMD could get active numbers within the first month. With this, the first BCMD was Dargon, accompanied by his friends. Whilst they did kickstart the battalion in the best way possible, Dargon himself resigned about two weeks after getting the position due to the general concept of the battalion not dragging any attention at that time. This was pretty grim, as I had joined up a week after he got BCMD and worked up to LTC, and I didn't want to see it removed. I applied for BCMD myself after a huge debate between Zander and Joah, but they waived me and I got the position on the same day as the app. But one thing that has always stuck with me was the words Joah said in that interview. "If you don't get the battalion active within the next two weeks, we will be removing it.". This was the icing on the cake. There was a long road ahead, and I'd like to keep it attentive to the subject at hand, DU. 4 will refer to numbers and income.

4. While the first few weeks of the battalion were otherwise slow but constant in numbers, however it did begin to pick up. This was not only due to my constant push and strive to recruit anyone and everyone I could, but the main factor and the only reason I did get as many recruits as I did was because of server population. These two words right here are the sole reason that I believe, at the battalions current state, and the servers current state, my decision is concrete. My DU was one of the most active, dawning over battalions like 501st or 212th and outshining them in our numbers most every day. And I'm not the only BCMD to have done this, there are others down the line like Dennis who have achieved these numbers at points. But, this was due to how well off the server was in these times. Even in the second rendition of endor, before anaxes, there was plenty enough income for the battalion itself to strive. This just can't be achieved right now, in my eyes, and that leads me to 5.

5. Battalion clutter. Simple as. I currently see it as there's too many battalions with too little numbers, which only takes away the income to other battalions. With how vastly spread out our choices are, it's easy to overlook the concept that we just don't get enough people to maintain balance between them all. In a perfect world, yes, the number of players were have now is enough to keep all of them at atleast 10+ people a day. But that's not how it works. People are attracted to mainstream battalions first and foremost, i.e. 212th and 501st. With that known, those will always be ahead of the curb. Past that, this server really works on CTs joining whatever the living hell they feel like. You're lucky if you can pull them in half the time, due to them being minges. That said, this ties to 6.

6. At last, the main and sole reason I personally think DU may need to have a break, is the fact that this is not the first time they have been down in the slumps. I mentioned that this is a repeating image multiple times prior in my post, and right now, all I see is more of the same. I get backing up battalion who have these up and down phases, hell all of them do. But behind current understandings of the battalions culture itself, as well as other reasons listed such as battalion number spread, server activity, and general incentive to make this battalion fundamentally fit and work on our server, it's running it's course.

Now with all on my opinions stated, I will personally leave my vote to a +1 due to the outlying nature of how many factors have to be considered and talked around for this battalion to even be a thing.
Seeing as it's what pushed me and made me on the server, I will always love DU to the grave, but maybe that's where it belongs right now.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Jayarr

[Cuzzo_io]

-1. I’ve poured hundreds of hours into this battalion and it’s members. I have stayed with DU through thick and thin since January of 2021. And I came back in January of 2022 just because I couldn’t sit back and watch DU struggle. I know this post wasn’t directed to offend any of DU and I understand that. But it doesn’t help a battalion make a attempt at rebuilding when people are trying to get it removed. 
 

Also, what’s gonna happen to the members in DU if the battalion gets removed? Are they just gonna be throw into battalion limbo? I just don’t see how it’s fair to those currently in DU to put a rope around their neck and drag them out of the battalion just because it would give certain battalions more numbers.  
 

Edit: Sorry if this seems biased…it’s because it is. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Cuzzo_io

[Slak]

9 hours ago, Banzai said:

As someone who is currently trying to help Doom's Unit please give us time. The battalion was blindsided by stroodles departure and we are working hard to get back on track.

Respectfully -1

I am going to say this, it has been given too many chances and to say that it should have more time is very interesting. I am updating my vote to a +1.
 

The battalion always falls after a Doom leaves or someone of leadership or influence leaves so what's the point. The battalion goes through this every-time and that's what almost every Doom has to worry about for about 1-2 months of their term, I experienced it myself. Just pull the plug.

 

 

Exactly what happened to all the members in 187th / 327th / 91st. Start over, transfer, 1-1 into other battalion, Merge.

4 minutes ago, Cuzzo_io said:

Also, what’s gonna happen to the members in DU if the battalion gets removed?

Edited March 10, 2022 by Slak

[Heart]

If 91st can get removed while having a lot of loving members, then no battalion is exempt.

A moment of silence for Oneniner, Royer, and Grum

Circlejerking aside, as the overall life of the server gets more complex with more weapons, subclasses, etc, DU started to lose its purpose as the z6 carrying convoy running gamers they are. 

Drama wise, even when I was director there was problems, and they're not always there, but the same battalion having problems is not a normal thing. I don't remember the last big drama that CG had (for example) unless it was one specific player rather than battalion structure. In my time, battalions attract recurring problems if their old members can put themselves into the battalion and still have some authority.

I know DU has no Honorary System but if it's anything like many others battalions/factions, then previous BCMDs have a place where they can all talk and discuss current issues. From what I can tell, this is almost never an issue in other battalions, but if this is still a problem a year and some change later where members are having issues recruiting and running the OfC ranks, and former High-ranks are shadow-running the battalion, then there's no telling what may happen. It could be a dead job-slot like C3-PO/R2-D2, or it could have a small niche of people that bleed green. However, I don't see it coming back to 15+ a day every day any time soon.

+1 For removal; if for any reason it does not get removed, I'll join DU as a Jedi to put in my part. It's really easy to say that something is irreparable from the outside, so if DU gets a second chance, I'll dive in to see what's the culture about, and what can be done.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Heart

[Craigary]

-1

To sum up my reasons for not supporting -

Why? Because it’s struggling and has been struggling? Ok. If we keep removing the bottom battalions or struggling battalions eventually a battalion like 104th will be the worst in terms of numbers and adding to the server.
 

What’s the plus side?
 

Well the player base is stretched thin with the larger number of battalions but so what? What negative is that causing right now? It will bring people together but why? 
 

I cannot think of another legitimate positive.

Cons - 

When someone joins a server from first impression stand points are they going to want to stay if there’s less content? Diversity? Less avenues to pursue if they join the server? 
 

Removing a large number of players from the player base such as when 91st / 327th / 187th was removed. I’m not saying a giant number but atleast a handful of players will simply not come back. Is that worth removing an entire battalion at this moment in time? 
 

DU isn’t even in the worst spot it’s been in, and has always bounced back. What about any other battalion that has struggled are you going to put up a suggestion to remove 501st, 21st and Rancor or all battalions? What is the point there is no long term positive that will legitimately benefit the community. All this will do is cause problems, people trying to turn other battalions into DU, people leaving etc etc. Just relax.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Craigary

[Jaeger]

+1

[Misfit]

3 hours ago, Slak said:

 

The battalion always falls after a Doom leaves or someone of leadership or influence leaves so what's the point. The battalion goes through this every-time and that's what almost every Doom has to worry about for about 1-2 months of their term, I experienced it myself. Just pull the plug

changing my vote AGAIN to -1

you’re basically saying “oh battalion goes sour with no BCMD, TIME TO REMOVE” like this same thing doesn’t happen with any other battalion. its happened in 501st, 41st, 212th, 21st and CG. its definitely not as often in these other battalions because there’s usually a command structure in place before a BCMD leaves the battalion but its not just DU. of course DU has a scuffed past especially in the position of Doom but everytime, with our without a BCMD the battalion finds a way out. they did it in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. no reason it cant do it a 5th time in 2022. like i said originally, if you wanna be harsh wipe it and start over like with 21st. if not then let it ride out with conrad and maddoxx and let them rebuild the battalion themselves. in the end a removal will hurt the server more than it’ll help. 

[Comics]

I think a lot of people are emotionally involved in the existence and creation of DU. A lot of people see this as a community they are a part of.
It's hard to actually want to seriously consider the removal of so many hours of love, hard work, and true friendship. There are a lot of memories and amazing memories created by DU for members of said battalion. But it simply cannot be ignored, DU truly does not hold a place within the server.

Now this isn't about the members, or anything to do with anyone who's ever joined the battalion. And I think a lot of people are trying to muddle the ideas of the people of DU and the actual battalion itself. Looking at the place and function of DU it just doesn't fit in at all. It's a shield battalion? But what sort of battalion would want to be locked to such a boring and slow role? The answer is no one because DU doesn't play a defensive role in the server. No one does, which is generally a larger issue of people being unwilling to play their role but that doesn't seem like an attitude that's easy to change. The solution to such an issue is definitely not making a battalion more suitable to said role because we all know players only want to go on the offence.

The loss of the Z6 was 100% absolutely justified but it was also when DU lost pretty much their only good feature. They were the OP ass blasting batt that got a big fucking gun and shields making them the ultimate assault force because they were all heavies. But they are no longer this, their shield doesn't mesh well with any other class except heavy. How does an ARF trooper even make good use of a shield if they're constantly on the move? It simply just isn't a strong loadout. When you aren't playing defensive or using a Z6 it is simply not that useful. This is why DU was better before they lost their gun (deservedly) and why the DS trooper is actually pretty useful.

People keep bringing in people and the drama of which DU seems to ooze like a wound that can't heal. People will claim a wipe or reset may solve this sort of issue. But 21st, & RANCOR did not make any gains from their wipes and ultimately became a husk of their former selves. SOBDE was fundamentally changed and lost the most toxic features but is still holds many characteristics it's "wipe" was supposed to resolve.
Battalions simply cannot be wiped to change, they either are murdered in the process or sink into old habits with a new coat of paint. But we kept around these 3 stated battalions because the server would be a lot more complicated without them. 21st has a more uneasy position but it's undeniable the server would struggle without RANCOR or SOBDE.
DU, sadly, does not hold any position like this. It is a shield battalion and it's not even very good at that because why would you want to be. It doesn't matter about the people, wiping it has never done anything to fix anything.

187th was popular, so was 91st, and 327th. Yet they were all ripped up and all parts removed. These battalions never worked in the server and we have seen them far too often fall into disarray and fail to keep up to their regimental brothers. None of them held a place and were simply 2nd place at all times to the better choice. 187th couldn't beat 2ndAC, 91st was always behind 41st, & 327th could never match either 501st or 212th. They served no purpose, they had no place. DU sits in the same place. Popular with the people but fundamentally flawed.

The people who has served DU I heavily advise you consider what you wish to tie your name to. Do you want to be a badge on a decaying corpse or do you wish to be a plaque on a distinguished grave. Because it becomes quite clear it's unlikely there is a synergy in which DU remains alive.
And to the people who are not in DU you should consider how you discuss something people sunk months or even years into. There is passion and brotherhood weaved into these battalions so it matters that we treat it with respect. 

we are weighing up the aspects and quality of a battalion not it's people.

There is no defence that can justify the continued existence of DU as a battalion only justifications for a battalion to exist. We can get DU on it's feet but it still won't be a fun battalion to interact with as it truly doesn't have a unique place in the server. Unlike other battalions there is no way to reform DU as this is the only way DU can exist, as a regular battalion. It just doesn't justify it's own existence.

 

DU should not be removed because you dislike the people of DU. It should be removed because it does not function.
+1, it sad to see that some creative ideas must come to an end

I also suggest moving the shield to heavy, where both things may find an actual place to be useful

Edited March 10, 2022 by Comics

[Pythin]

-1 

I use to be in favor of removing battalions(ie: Wipe Rancor and keep just the commanders and have them run the trainings), but I don’t think it’s the same with DU. Yes, there are people that could do there job, but that’s the same with every battalion. You could use that excuse for everyone, and we’d get no where. 
DU just needs to get the ball rolling and will be back on its feet, I don’t think it’s necessary to remove them. If, however, nothing changes and there is no hope for it, then yea I’d suggest removing it, but until then let’s try and fix it instead of removing it 

[Omalic]

19 minutes ago, Pythin said:

-1 

I use to be in favor of removing battalions(ie: Wipe Rancor and keep just the commanders and have them run the trainings), but I don’t think it’s the same with DU. Yes, there are people that could do there job, but that’s the same with every battalion. You could use that excuse for everyone, and we’d get no where. 
DU just needs to get the ball rolling and will be back on its feet, I don’t think it’s necessary to remove them. If, however, nothing changes and there is no hope for it, then yea I’d suggest removing it, but until then let’s try and fix it instead of removing it 

Hit the nail on the head Puffin ^
-1

Edited March 10, 2022 by Omalic

[Comics]

27 minutes ago, Pythin said:

-1 

I use to be in favor of removing battalions(ie: Wipe Rancor and keep just the commanders and have them run the trainings), but I don’t think it’s the same with DU. Yes, there are people that could do there job, but that’s the same with every battalion. You could use that excuse for everyone, and we’d get no where. 
DU just needs to get the ball rolling and will be back on its feet, I don’t think it’s necessary to remove them. If, however, nothing changes and there is no hope for it, then yea I’d suggest removing it, but until then let’s try and fix it instead of removing it 

You're considering DU in the short term. This is a defence you could give for any battalion low on numbers, that's why it's not the real issue with DU.
DU isn't a battalion you can fix, replace , or repair. It is a bad idea that has snowballed into a beloved battalion. It looks cool and it sounds cool but it isn't special. it doesn't serve a role or hold a place that makes it reasonable to continue the existence of.
DU doesn't have a job, we aren't asking for a different DU we're asking for no DU and no replacement, at least not a replacement for DU's role.

DU has a lot of people in it and has a lot of people who care about it but that isn't enough to keep it going(91st, 327th, 187th, RM, 38th, Senate Commando, Covert Ops). DU has not got enough lore to make it fun to interact with like 212th or 501st, it doesn't hold special RP that makes it fun unlike CG, it doesn't have a special structural makeup which makes it unique like RANCOR or 21st, and it doesn't have a special role which is interesting like 104th or 41st. 
It truly is a nothing battalion that doesn't really justify it's existence beyond the fact it exists. This circular logic would mean it would never make sense to remove anything unless it was an enormous detriment to the server like the CIS. But then we'd be stuck with things like Grey Jedi or Naval Jedi who are sort of pointless entities who don't really hold any role but are kept around because it makes some people happy. 

DU is pretty much the only battalion in which we don't really have a special reason to keep them beyond them being a battalion with members. All others (a few may struggle) quite firmly justify there position as I've already stated. So why doesn't DU have to do the same thing?

[Aeon]

+1 anyone who doesnt is a DU fanboy

[Pythin]

1 hour ago, Comics said:

You're considering DU in the short term. This is a defence you could give for any battalion low on numbers, that's why it's not the real issue with DU.
DU isn't a battalion you can fix, replace , or repair. It is a bad idea that has snowballed into a beloved battalion. It looks cool and it sounds cool but it isn't special. it doesn't serve a role or hold a place that makes it reasonable to continue the existence of.
DU doesn't have a job, we aren't asking for a different DU we're asking for no DU and no replacement, at least not a replacement for DU's role.

DU has a lot of people in it and has a lot of people who care about it but that isn't enough to keep it going(91st, 327th, 187th, RM, 38th, Senate Commando, Covert Ops). DU has not got enough lore to make it fun to interact with like 212th or 501st, it doesn't hold special RP that makes it fun unlike CG, it doesn't have a special structural makeup which makes it unique like RANCOR or 21st, and it doesn't have a special role which is interesting like 104th or 41st. 
It truly is a nothing battalion that doesn't really justify it's existence beyond the fact it exists. This circular logic would mean it would never make sense to remove anything unless it was an enormous detriment to the server like the CIS. But then we'd be stuck with things like Grey Jedi or Naval Jedi who are sort of pointless entities who don't really hold any role but are kept around because it makes some people happy. 

DU is pretty much the only battalion in which we don't really have a special reason to keep them beyond them being a battalion with members. All others (a few may struggle) quite firmly justify there position as I've already stated. So why doesn't DU have to do the same thing?

You can use that same argument for 501st and 212th

They do the exact same thing, why should we keep both? 
 

DU can be fixed, and yea sure they don’t have a whole lot of lore, but who gives a fuck about that lol. All of Rancors CMD’s are dead and shouldn’t technically be here, literally almost all of 501sr lore characters are dead, they shouldn’t technically be here. DU is different because you can do whatever you want with it. It doesn’t have a “lore” structure to it. I mean that argument is just flawed. 
 

DU could come back and fix itself, and that’s why I’m not +1’ing this. 

[Dono]

+1 I think we honestly have too many battalions that do the same thing. Downsizing and focusing on specializing things is the best thing that could happen. Battalionization / standardizing everything to be the same in my opinion has hurt more then it has helped. I would be willing to support DU being removed to help with this. Just like Cyan said, I think CG should be merged. Also speaking from experience as a ex 41st CMDR x2, recon doesnt exist on gmod. I think the worst part would just be destroying the communities that some of these groups have formed. Would be cool to find a solution to just removing some of the extra fluff of battalion groups while migrating the people in each group smoothly.

[Seabass]

+1 
theres many other batallions to potentially replace it with, 327th, 187th, 91st, etc who have more lore 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Seabass

[Hansen]

+1 lmao i was joking

Edited March 10, 2022 by Hansen

[Unkindled]

+1 

[Arizona]

+1 yeah it’s about time…

 

can’t wait for people to suggest adding back 327th if DU gets remove 

[Eagle]

I get where this is coming from and I also have mixed feelings about DU, but I am not in favor of removing battalions.

19 hours ago, Marvel said:

Obviously this stems from a multitude of reasons. In the opinions of many there are quite a lot of battalions, factions, and groups on the server that split our playerbase very thin as is. Removing a battalion will reallocate a good number of people among all these different groups. Doom’s Unit in its current state is the most logical as it has consistently been the most problematic battalion on the server for a very long time. It’s numbers have always struggled and it’s reputation has never been that great to be completely honest.

Keep in mind that through removing a battalion you are also removing a place for a group of people to have fun and to do stuff together. From personal experience I can even say that not all people will stay on the server after their battalion gets removed. This could be because they are not able to find a battalion which they fit in and/or are still feeling bad about their own battalion being removed. Honestly how would you feel if your battalion gets removed? I took a half year break since I just did not want to play on the server for a while after a battalion I put a lot of time in got removed!
Also you are saying that it is the most problematic battalion. This might be true, but this changes over time. In the past it was 327th, then it was DU, it has been CG for a while and now it is DU again. This should not be a reason to remove a battalion. I think, just like @Pythin said, that DU needs to get the ball rolling again.

I also think that a lot or even too much of the "fat" got trimmed a while back when 187th, 327th and 91st got removed. I do not see a problem with the current amount of battalions. The reason why I like the server so much is because of the many specializations and removing another battalion is making the server only going to look worse in my opinion. Also, what battalion is going to be next after DU? 104th, 21st or Rancor since they have a dip in their activity?

Overall I just dont think it is a good idea to remove a battalion at this point. -1
 

[Unkindled]

Continuing on why I'm +1ing is that I'd rather have another battalion other than DU make a reappearance. At the current state of DU its basically rebuilding from the ground up and overall this is a very good chance to bring back other battalions that have disappeared from the server. Personally I really love the 91st and 327th and I wish to see them again.

[Hanz]

The last time I saw DU do anything cool was defending the outside engine room on titan base with their shields and Z-6s. This current activity won’t hold up for long as people don’t actually care for DU and just want a hold of power in the power Vacuum that is DU right now. Shit back in the day I would’ve taken a 1-1 transfer in a wide open battalion run by high command looking for people to become The new High command. I have nothing against DU or the people who are in DU, I just think Comics and anyone who thinks there are too many battalions are correct.

+1 

[Stockings]

-1

Lazy man's solution to a fixable issue. I don't need to say anymore

[Spieler]

DU, more so than any other battalion on the server, has always had this trend of activity with a new BCMD leading to mass resignations when the new BCMD leaves. This happens occasionally to other battalions, but never as consistently as DU. I'd agree that this situation was "fixable", but this has happened too many times. Every time people join or try to fix the battalion, they only help it temporarily and leave it to die again months later. At this point I feel like we should just let the battalion rest. It feels like it's been on it's last legs for such a long time. +1

[CruorFlumine]

Ima say +1 for now. However, i would like to give them some time to see if they can turn things around, if not then its probably for the best. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by CruorFlumine

[Mantis]

+1 I will say no more

[Silly]

easy +1 #fakesubunit

[Marvel]

For the people asking to replace DU with another battalion this is not what the suggestion is about. That wouldn't solve anything. Yeah there might be battalions that could potentially add something new to the server but at the end of the day the core problem is the sheer amount of battalions we currently have not whether one battalion has cooler lore than the other. It's about a core issue with the server because of all these different battalions that causes these cycles where this battalion is doing very well, these 2 battalions are doing alright, these 3 are in meh states, and these 2 are performing very poorly. It's almost always DU in that last category majority of the time. I don't understand why this cycle should be allowed to continue. Less battalions would open up the ability for more battalions to be in better states at the same time rather than some of them constantly struggling until old people come back or High Command steps in.

Also 

26 minutes ago, Corey said:

I'm neutral in this, but im sorry yalls replys are pages long. I aint reading that shit +/- 1

Don't respond if you have nothing to add goober

[Corey]

2 minutes ago, Marvel said:

For the people asking to replace DU with another battalion this is not what the suggestion is about. That wouldn't solve anything. Yeah there might be battalions that could potentially add something new to the server but at the end of the day the core problem is the sheer amount of battalions we currently have not whether one battalion has cooler lore than the other. It's about a core issue with the server because of all these different battalions that causes these cycles where this battalion is doing very well, these 2 battalions are doing alright, these 3 are in meh states, and these 2 are performing very poorly. It's almost always DU in that last category majority of the time. I don't understand why this cycle should be allowed to continue. Less battalions would open up the ability for more battalions to be in better states at the same time rather than some of them constantly struggling until old people come back or High Command steps in.

Also 

Don't respond if you have nothing to add goober

ok

[Kryptos]

+1 I know my feelings on the matter are personal, HOWEVER, DU has been struggling for a good amount of my time on the server. At most I have seen about 10 on at once and I don't know how long that was ago. I think its just time to move on and find something new to add. Maybe we could add the new 13th iron battalion from Fallen Order into the server? Or how about a battalion based off of Captain Howzer? I know we don't have much information on them due to how little info we have about them in lore but we could make our own lore with those battalion ideas. (With like clone paint designs, lore characters, etc) I think that'd be cool.

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Kryptos

[Marvel]

7 minutes ago, Kryptos said:

+1 I know my feelings on the matter are personal, HOWEVER, DU has been struggling for a good amount of my time on the server. At most I have seen about 10 on at once and I don't know how long that was ago. I think its just time to move on and find something new to add. Maybe we could add the new 13th iron battalion from Fallen Order into the server? Or how about a battalion based off of Captain Howzer? I know we don't have much information on them due to how little info we have about them in lore but we could make our own lore with those battalion ideas. (With like clone paint designs, lore characters, etc) I think that'd be cool.

 

 

39 minutes ago, Marvel said:

For the people asking to replace DU with another battalion this is not what the suggestion is about. That wouldn't solve anything. Yeah there might be battalions that could potentially add something new to the server but at the end of the day the core problem is the sheer amount of battalions we currently have not whether one battalion has cooler lore than the other. It's about a core issue with the server because of all these different battalions that causes these cycles where this battalion is doing very well, these 2 battalions are doing alright, these 3 are in meh states, and these 2 are performing very poorly. It's almost always DU in that last category majority of the time. I don't understand why this cycle should be allowed to continue. Less battalions would open up the ability for more battalions to be in better states at the same time rather than some of them constantly struggling until old people come back or High Command steps in.

 

[Kryptos]

52 minutes ago, Marvel said:

 

 

Oh no I understand, I was just mainly putting that in case they were like "We're gonna remove DU. Hmmmm what do we add as a replacement if we wanted to replace it with something?"

[Mystic]

changed my response.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Mystik
Changed from +1 to -1 for now

[Clutch]

I think removing a battalion right now would be good for the server so that more battalions can have more active members and I think DU is that battalion right now +1

[Guac]

It  feels as though members of this server are so incredibly short sighted some times.

This removal could very well be any battalion, it's just awfully convenient that DU is in such a poor state that many consider them for removal. There are some legitimate reasons for their removal as explained by  @Marveland @Comics. In some ways yes, they are fundamentally flawed. However, for those speaking solely off activity and recent times, I want you to consider this being your battalion. Rancor for weeks, just a few months ago, had around 7 active members, 501st has had some of the most fluctuating member count over the servers history, 21st had to be wiped at one point due to the sheer structural issues within it. Now this isn't a dig at these battalions, I am merely trying to put into context of this hive mindset of "REMOVE CUZ BAD", and how it is incredibly frustrating to those who have devoted time and resources to this battalion.

I'll abstain from voting for now.

[Rohan]

17 hours ago, Stockings said:

-1

Lazy man's solution to a fixable issue. I don't need to say anymore

-1, same reason

[Metro]

+1 - It's time to wake up to the reality that the DU's time has come. The artificial life trying to be pumped into it with 1-1 Transfers across the board is just a facade and will eventually fizzle out. DU has been in this state multiple times and it's a sign that its time to move on before resources are invested into redoing models, etc.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Metro

[Dennis]

2 hours ago, Metro said:

+1 - It's time to wake up to the reality that the DU's time has come. The artificial life trying to be pumped into it with 1-1 Transfers across the board is just a facade and will eventually fizzle out. DU has been in this state multiple times and it's a sign that its time to move on before resources are invested into redoing models, etc.

Metro you out of anyone knows that every battalion faces these problems, every single one at this point your advocating removing any battalion that goes into a slump. 

104th has been in this state multiple times before, after a few BCMD’s have left. 
41st has had much worse times and no one came calling for their head. 
501st and 212th have their moments as well.

im not even saying these are chronic issues that they have like 91st or 327th had. This issue only arose after an untimely departure or a solid bcmd and an XO who wasn’t ready yet. It’s been at most 2 weeks. If we let rancor sit and struggle for over a year then DU should get more than 2 weeks. 

[Seabass]

To add to what i said, the only reason anyone is joining dooms unit currently is the 1-1 rank transfer and an easy promotion, then they leave in a week, theres a constant cycle of it happening and until DU gets removed it will keep happening, its not the first instance of this happening and wont be the last unless its removed

[Comics]

20 hours ago, Stockings said:

-1

Lazy man's solution to a fixable issue. I don't need to say anymore

Please state a single way this can be achieved because you're just making an unjustified claim. We are suggesting a solution to DU, what is your solution to DU since we cannot find another one?

 

22 hours ago, Pythin said:

You can use that same argument for 501st and 212th

They do the exact same thing, why should we keep both? 
 

DU can be fixed, and yea sure they don’t have a whole lot of lore, but who gives a fuck about that lol. All of Rancors CMD’s are dead and shouldn’t technically be here, literally almost all of 501sr lore characters are dead, they shouldn’t technically be here. DU is different because you can do whatever you want with it. It doesn’t have a “lore” structure to it. I mean that argument is just flawed. 
 

DU could come back and fix itself, and that’s why I’m not +1’ing this. 

No one brought up dead lore characters lol not sure why you did tbh. Still doesn't go against my point DU is not interesting and has no lore to bounce off of. They're not fun to interact with because they have no character or personality. 212th and 501st are the most lore rich and character heavy battalions and quite Cleary have separate personalities most accentuated by their very different BCMDs. 501st is more rag tag with a unique and off the books approach which Rex and Anakin love to play into. Cody is too the books just like 212th, he's a hard ass but his battalion kicks ass and is deployed everywhere because of how damn good it is. Doom is not a person I don't think he even says anything in all of the CLone wars. DU carries that same distinct lack of any personality.

DU doesn't have a special structure like 21st because it is a nothing battalion. You can't do whatever you want because then it's not even DU at that point. They are a nameless battalion with no reason to exist in the server. If we want unique groups we shouldn't be looking for the most bland and vanilla battalions to expand upon? How would you even expand upon DU because it is so much of nothing. Even it's sub unit was made up.

 

You people keep saying there is another solution but I am not seeing it. We already know wipes and better leaders haven't worked. So what now? DU can't be turned into something better because it doesn't have anything to build off of. So please suggest any way to improve it

[Marshh]

9 hours ago, Dennis said:

Metro you out of anyone knows that every battalion faces these problems, every single one at this point your advocating removing any battalion that goes into a slump. 

104th has been in this state multiple times before, after a few BCMD’s have left. 
41st has had much worse times and no one came calling for their head. 
501st and 212th have their moments as well.

im not even saying these are chronic issues that they have like 91st or 327th had. This issue only arose after an untimely departure or a solid bcmd and an XO who wasn’t ready yet. It’s been at most 2 weeks. If we let rancor sit and struggle for over a year then DU should get more than 2 weeks. 

+1 remove DU

[Camilo]

-1 I was the number 1 advocate to get DU added to this server. I fought hard along many others. You guys already removed 187th why remove another battalion? bruh remove 501st the battalion with the least amount of lore?? 

 

But seriously dont remove it.

[Diplo]

-1
Just wait until summer

[Skore]

-1 There is no saying the DU members would stay on the server if they are removed, and instead hurting the player population even more. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Skore

[BlackPink]

-1, I've seen 21st inactive af yet no post to remove them. Yes, we struggle whenever we have no BCMD or a bad one like every other battalion. A lot of people resigned from CG not too long ago yet I have seen no post to remove them.

[Brooklyn]

54 minutes ago, BlackPink said:

-1, I've seen 21st inactive af yet no post to remove them. Yes, we struggle whenever we have no BCMD or a bad one like every other battalion. A lot of people resigned from CG not too long ago yet I have seen no post to remove them.

Not gonna speak on 21st. Not trying to join another Officer Meeting. But for CG, it wasn't a "i don't like this battalion" thing. Some people left because they had future goals and aspirations that weren't possible in CG. And CG is actually active for a good amount of the day

[Noodles]

59 minutes ago, BlackPink said:

-1, I've seen 21st inactive af yet no post to remove them. Yes, we struggle whenever we have no BCMD or a bad one like every other battalion. A lot of people resigned from CG not too long ago yet I have seen no post to remove them.

People leaving CG were for 2 reason. One for going with someone that had different goal in mind that he couldn't Obtain within CG and other people left because of a punishment ruling. So brining CG up here have no Relevance 

[Gadget]

I didnt read through all the comment cos people decided to do essays but I read through a couple.

I am in agreement that something has to be done but a wipe is a bit rough, not too long ago 501st and 104th were in a similar situation to DU but people didn't suggest removal cos they are the main lore batts and they bounce back.

 

Currently, As @Dennis eluded to, Gmod is a fucking dying game as the server is surviving off of infrequent updates and the GM teams hard work. Wiping or removing a batt just to add something later on won't help and its likely to just push all the loyal individuals @Conrad mentioned away from the server, hell look how many troopers left 21st after the wipe, I ALMOST LEFT because I felt so betrayed by both clone HC and server HC. I didn't even want to talk to Gears for like a month. I solidered through but many people won't and will just say bye, like with 327th, 187th, 91st and even RM.

 

I suggest we all wait a little bit, see if the future hold anything good, otherwise we will just be removing batt after batt to "Help the server"

 

No battalion is doing great atm, 212th and 501st aren't there normal self's, I remember seeing consistent 10+ members, now that's saved for weekends. 21st always lived on like 4-8 members many batts do as they are less mainstream like DU. Hell, CG and Rnacor havent been doing amazing either. The server averaged around 70 to 90 players, going above this on weekends. If we split that amongst all 9 clones batt, Jedi, BH and Naval, thats 12 groups so 90÷12= 7.5 per. Obviously the split is more weighted but you see the problem. Removing a batt won't make it a 90÷11 it will likely make it a 85÷11 at best.

 

TL;DR - Hold for now, removal will just betray the trust of those in the batt and likely push them away from the server like it had done in the past and relatively recently with the 21st. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Gadget

[Brooklyn]

6 hours ago, Gadget said:

Gmod is a fucking dying game

Actual Stats

Arma 3 Stats

Edited March 13, 2022 by Brooklyn

[Comics]

7 hours ago, Gadget said:

I soldiered through but many people won't and will just say bye, like with 327th, 187th, 91st and even RM.

Should we just keep these corpse battalions on the server? How do you suggest we solve battalions who hold no place in the server? because we have our solution: full removal

You people keep asking to wait and see what happens. What are we waiting for? How long do we need to wait? Can we make a removal post in a year if DU is just as out-of-place and unfun to work with. I can understand reservations about how members are likely to leave if their battalion is removed but keeping that battalion is not the solution.

At this point people are no longer arguing whether or not DU deserves to be removed because it's become blatantly obvious this is the case. DU itself cannot be defended people have moved to general concerns that could apply to any battalion. Despite DU unique place in not fitting in, being painfully characterless, and having no lore to build off into something.
We don't want to fix DU, that's not what this suggestion is aiming to do. This suggestion is about how DU as a battalion, but not it's people, are an issue that cannot be fixed as it's fundamental to the battalion. We want it gone because you cannot reform it in any way. People aren't doing this for 21st or RANCOR because there's genuine value, lore, and reform-ability with those groups.

Honestly the real thing that should be discussed is how to ensure we keep DU members from leaving the server cause that's the big issue with removing batts. This is a more nuanced issue I would probably put in the hands of HC to organise like a transfer program for DU to get equal ranks in batts or something along those lines.

[buhr]

-1

[Zensras]

Oh man. 

On one hand,  I agree about some stuff being spoken about here.   On the other,  I disagree about some of the topics.

As for numbers:
Garry's mod isn't really dying so to speak but we are not seeing the numbers like we did in 2013-2018 when the game was in it's prime.  You had gamemodes like DarkRP, Pirateship Wars (the remake),  GMTower,  Zombie Survival/ etc.  There was also a HUGE number of people coding stuff for Garry's mod during this time and also creating new maps.   There is indeed quite a majority waiting for S#box now but the number has stayed constant to a degree.  

As for player retainment: 
There have been plenty of times where a certain part of the server goes into the shitter and people start pitchforking for it's removal.  Most of the time it's due to a major change not really well liked.    For example:  Bounty Hunters due to some RP revamp so they don't have a coinvent way of saying they have cloaks or BARCs stored and nobody could actually vouch for it.    21st for the changes Brooklyn/Dennis/etc made to the battalion after the wipe.     These made people want to not be part of the server aka the player retainment issue. 

327th and 91st is not one of these cases.    

Yes,  327th often had the short straw pulled compared to other battalions.    One thing about 327th was problematic leadership often allowing people to do stupid shit without punishment.  I.E:  Poe constantly getting arrest and a certain major playing Alabama *CENSORED* in DB to protest an arrest...while drunk.   The other thing is that K-company didn't bring anything new to their table and often brought people looking at 212th aka what Comics mentioned. 

I still find it harsh that 327th was never really given a chance.  I wanted to at least give it until Willy's term was up before anything before removal.

91st is a different beast.   Some saw it as a carbon copy.   Others saw it kind of elitist.    The main issue was their HC fishing people to other servers that ended with their sudden removal.



Now to the topic at hand:

-1

Something has got to give but removal should be the last step.   Every-fucking-time we get one of these threads,   We get chatter of "HEY *INSERT THIS REMOVED HERE* IS GONE NOW SO NOW WE CAN REPLACE IT WITH *INSERTED FORMERLY REMOVED HERE* and it'll be great!"

How about we deal with what we have and stop the revolving door. 



(this is weirdly typed due to me being tired from work.  sorry)

Edited March 15, 2022 by Zensras

[Banshoodle]

On 3/15/2022 at 11:17 AM, Zensras said:

Oh man. 

On one hand,  I agree about some stuff being spoken about here.   On the other,  I disagree about some of the topics.

As for numbers:
Garry's mod isn't really dying so to speak but we are not seeing the numbers like we did in 2013-2018 when the game was in it's prime.  You had gamemodes like DarkRP, Pirateship Wars (the remake),  GMTower,  Zombie Survival/ etc.  There was also a HUGE number of people coding stuff for Garry's mod during this time and also creating new maps.   There is indeed quite a majority waiting for S#box now but the number has stayed constant to a degree.  

As for player retainment: 
There have been plenty of times where a certain part of the server goes into the shitter and people start pitchforking for it's removal.  Most of the time it's due to a major change not really well liked.    For example:  Bounty Hunters due to some RP revamp so they don't have a coinvent way of saying they have cloaks or BARCs stored and nobody could actually vouch for it.    21st for the changes Brooklyn/Dennis/etc made to the battalion after the wipe.     These made people want to not be part of the server aka the player retainment issue. 

327th and 91st is not one of these cases.    

Yes,  327th often had the short straw pulled compared to other battalions.    One thing about 327th was problematic leadership often allowing people to do stupid shit without punishment.  I.E:  Poe constantly getting arrest and a certain major playing Alabama *CENSORED* in DB to protest an arrest...while drunk.   The other thing is that K-company didn't bring anything new to their table and often brought people looking at 212th aka what Comics mentioned. 

I still find it harsh that 327th was never really given a chance.  I wanted to at least give it until Willy's term was up before anything before removal.

91st is a different beast.   Some saw it as a carbon copy.   Others saw it kind of elitist.    The main issue was their HC fishing people to other servers that ended with their sudden removal.



Now to the topic at hand:

-1

Something has got to give but removal should be the last step.   Every-fucking-time we get one of these threads,   We get chatter of "HEY *INSERT THIS REMOVED HERE* IS GONE NOW SO NOW WE CAN REPLACE IT WITH *INSERTED FORMERLY REMOVED HERE* and it'll be great!"

How about we deal with what we have and stop the revolving door. 



(this is weirdly typed due to me being tired from work.  sorry)

-1 for the reasons placed above, I couldn't put it any better

[Gohn]

-1

[Mystic]

On 3/12/2022 at 8:27 PM, BlackPink said:

-1, I've seen 21st inactive af yet no post to remove them. Yes, we struggle whenever we have no BCMD or a bad one like every other battalion. A lot of people resigned from CG not too long ago yet I have seen no post to remove them.

Even though i don't need to tell you this, i will. 21st currently has 10/37 people on ROA/LOA and many others are college students that are working on finishing semesters and taking late year tests. Surprisingly we actually tend to have 3-4 people on during the super late/early mornings, then maybe 4-5 tops during the day (Not including our Jedi who we tend to have 3-4 of on a day since they're included in the 37 people roster count). We have alot of UK fellows in our battalion. It could be the same for DU as well. Reading some of these comments made me adjust my view and wait and see how DU turns out. But this isn't a post about bringing up lore filled battalions that have different issues than the one that was brought up,  Inactivity happens for different reasons and isn't the sole reason that this post for DU was made (from what i can tell) 

On 3/11/2022 at 3:39 AM, Mystik said:

+1 DU has been around the block maybe even if they just get laid off for abit and brought back later it'd probably do some good.

voiding my response. I have changed to want to see how DU pans out, so at the moment its a -1.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Mystik

[Edgar]

+1 chad mentality

[Jad]

Unfortunately, this suggestion has been DENIED.

If the same suggestion is submitted again within 60 DAYS of this post it will be automatically denied.

// LOCKED
// MOVED TO [CW] SERVER SUGGESTIONS - DENIED
 

Quote

Denial reasons:
(These are some reasons that your suggestion might get denied for.)

• Not providing sufficient information.
  • Ex: Just linking the workshop and not giving us the actual model path you want to use.
• The addon's size is way too big compared to its content(s).
  • Ex: 35mb for one model.
• Lack of feedback.
  • Ex: Post has been up for 3 weeks and only received 1-10 votes.
• Majority negative feedback.
• Bad optimization and/or causes bad performance on the server.
• Having multiple suggestions within one thread.
• Bothering leadership/development team regarding a suggestion.
• Suggesting a previously denied suggestion within 60 days of denial.

 

I expect all of the people who have stated "If this gets denied I'll go help DU" to fulfill their promises. @Marvel This includes you as well, I expect your Doom App to be posted within the next 24 hours.