ARC Training

[Brooklyn]

This is a very serious suggestion that we wish to make and hope that you, as the reader and community member, really read this before voting. That is all we ask.
Disclaimer: When I say "We", this means Rancor High Command. Claw, Satan, Noodles, and myself.

The topic I would like to bring to you today is about ARC Training and how it is being changed in the future. I will go through and explain how it is changing, and what possibilities can happen as a result of this change. Again, I really do hope you read this in it's entirety, as we are trying to make the ARC Program better as a whole, and not just trying to ruffle feathers for the sake of it. With that being said, thank you and let's begin.

Name: Brooklyn

RP Rank: XO

Suggestion: We want to change ARC Trainings from what it currently is, a 3 staged tryout, to a 6 staged training that teaches and improves on the people who attend. I will explain this in detail.

ARC Training Changes:

1. To start, ARC Trainings as it stands right now is basically a tryout that upon passing gives you a permanent fallback on one of the best whitelists on the server. While the fallback itself wouldn't change, we want to change what the ARC Program is and move away from this tryout that don't really teach you things outside of the trainings itself. Weapons and Tactics is our only informational training that teaches you anything, with Selections and Leadership only being SIM's that are pass or fail with no incentive. 
2. We want to change ARC Training, or better said, ARC Tryouts, to be what it always should've been: A Program designed to better a players skills and ability, while teaching, mentoring, and improving on oneself without the limitations of no knowledge. This being said, I will give you a brief rundown as how this would work, without spoiling the contents of what the new trainings would consist of.
3. You can only do 1 Day in a single day. Example: Day 1 - Monday / Day 2 - Tuesday / and so on and so forth. These do not have to be back to back days, you can go at your own pace.
   1. Selections will still be around to get people into the Program. Upon passing you will be granted ARCT. The ARCT Program will be talked about down below.
   2. Day 1 & 2 of this new program will consist of learning days. Day 1 being informational, and Day 2 being Basic Skill Training. These days are not failable, and instead is a time where you do it until you understand it. 
      1. Day 1 takes around 20 minutes
      2. Day 2 takes around 1 hour
   3. Day 3 is your first knowledge and skills test. We will run you through a SIM that encompasses what you learned on Day 1 & 2. This Day is failable, however, instead of being stuck at this point, whatever you failed on, you will go back to. For example, if you failed on Day 1 Concepts, you will go back to Day 1, relearn what you might need, and then you can reattempt Day 3. Upon passing, you will move on.
      1. A concept we really want people to understand is we want to know you are listening, learning, and improving on what we are teaching you. This isn't to punish or make you do the same thing over and over, but again we want you to improve and get better as a player and as a future member of the ARC Program.
      2. Day 3 takes around 1 hour
   4. Day 4 & 5 are the same type of days as Day 1 & 2. These are not failable days that will obviously will have different concepts than the first 2 Days. 
      1. Day 4 takes around 20 minutes
      2. Day 5 takes around 30 minutes
   5. Day 6 is your graduation Day. This Day is failable, but is also your final step to becoming a fully trained ARC Trooper. This training will encompass everything you learned from days 1-5. Upon passing, you will no longer be and ARCT.
      1. Again, this being a failable day, you would have to retake the course that you failed on for grading before you can retake Day 6.
      2. Day 6 takes about 1 hour and 30 minutes

ARC Trainee (ARCT) Program:

1. The ARCT Program was a concept that Rancor utilized a lot in 2017 - 2020, but has since then been phased out for not being needed. However, we intend to make this have purpose again. Let's get into what this ARCT Program will be.
   1. Obtained after Passing Selections
   2. The biggest change to the ARCT Program is this: Once you become an ARCT, you will have access to the ARC Whitelist right away. Upon passing Selections, you will have a 2 week time period to complete your ARC Trainings before losing access to the whitelist. (Please note this does not mean you have to restart your Trainings. This just means you get a free trial to be on ARC while you go through your Training Period.)
   3. When running around on the ARC whitelist as an ARCT. You must have ARCT in your name instead of ARC.
   4. While a ARCT you may not become a ARC Lore Character, attend Alpha Designations, or hold ARC Leadership in a battalion

ARC Recertification:

1. I know, I know, but bare with me here for a minute. This is not a Wipe. Again, I ask you read in full what this entails before making your judgement. This is how the ARC Recert will work:
   1. All ARC Trained individuals will have to go through the 6 Training Days to keep their ARC Training
   2. Current ARC Trained individuals will not have to retake Selections. Instead, they will start on Day 1.
   3. Unlike new ARCTs, ARCs who require recertification can run through as many days as needed in 1 day. For Example, I can complete Day 1-3 at one time.
   4. Upon completing Day 1. A 30 Day timer will begin. Should you not complete the 6 Trainings in that 30 Days, your trainings will be stripped.
   5. Failing Day 3 or Day 6 will not get your trainings removed. All you will have to do is redo what you failed on, and try again. Again, you can do as many in 1 Day at a time.
   6. These 30 Days do not start at the same time for everyone. They only start when you complete your Day 1.
   7. During this time period, you will not lose a lore character, ARCO/L Positions, or Alpha Designation. You will keep them until you pass Day 6 as long as the 30 Days does not expire.
   8. You can ask for time extensions. We know Real Life is a thing. If you cannot do this in the 2 weeks, you can contact Rancor Command for an extension. 
   9. Rancor will actively pursue current ARC Slot Personnel, Lore Characters, and Alpha Designated Personnel as you will need it first to maintain your position.
2. The only way to not pass is to be lazy or push it off. I'll be honest about that. This looks like a lot, but I will put your mind at ease. Reread the ARC Training Changes Section and look at the time it takes for each training. These are maximum times only, so they can take less time.

Implementation:

ARC Training Changes:

These changes will be happening with ARC Regardless, the reason I wrote it all out is so you, as a community, can understand where we are coming from when we are literally revamping all of the ARC Program. This is not the voting topic. However we will look at any feedback you all give.

ARC Trainee (ARCT) Program:

Again, not the voting topic, but we will look into any feedback given on the topic.

ARC Recertification:

This is the voting topic. I know people who have been effected by an ARC Recert in the past most likely still has grudges against it, but I hope you read and understand why we want to make a change this big. That will be all. Thank you for reading and giving this idea a chance.

 

[Marvel]

I’ve always wanted ARC training to be properly redone and fleshed out. Hated the training since I got it back in 2018. Only reason I personally didn’t like the ARC wipe and recerts back then is because nothing changed in the training.

One concern I can think of right now is that Rancor hasn’t been having the best of times with hosting the current ARC trainings. These changes feel like it will make the whole process longer and take more initiative and energy from Rancor. I just don’t wanna see y’all crash and burn is all.

As for the ARCT system I personally wasn’t a fan of the system and was kinda glad it got phased out over time. I’d prefer that when I see an ARC trooper in game it’s a fully trained ARC trooper and not just a trainee tbh.

Overall huge fan of the changes as long as what you promise is true. Would hate for the days that go over “important information” is just a bunch of useless stuff and actually is viable during events. Meaning don’t do formations I ain’t finna do a right echelon while shooting droids or some shit.

Do you also plan on changing Selections or keeping it essentially the same? I feel it could use a good touch up too.

+1 nonetheless. Most of what I read sounds good and if there is a huge change in the training then it makes sense for people to get retrained. I won’t lie a wipe would not bother me one bit but that’s never gonna happen lol

[Brooklyn]

1 minute ago, Marvel said:

Do you also plan on changing Selections or keeping it essentially the same? I feel it could use a good touch up too.

Selections have gone through minor changes recently that include passing time, grading, and overall droid usage

[Fenrir]

-1 No. 6+ hours for a week of training? Terrible.

1. The timeline is WAAAAAAY too long and that's assuming you don't fail anything.

2. You gonna host it all by yourself? Cause you are gonna need your Rancor guys to host it and you already have a hard enough time getting people to run current ARC trainings from time to time.

3. This is way beyond what serious level of play that the current player base would want.

4. Just change up W/T and Leadership a bit if you feel that there should be more taught during both.

[Fizzik]

it really says a lot to me how you describe the purpose of ARC training, it being made to train anyone and everyone who desired it. That was the original vision for ARC training and I love how you're putting a focus on it. As of now, as much as it hurts me to say, ARC really is the most outdated training by a long shot. After all, the beginning stages started in 2016, hardly anything else has remained the same since then. An overhaul is long overdue. It seems like you've put a lot of thought into this.

 

The ONLY thing that speaks out to me that I can't say I like is giving them the whitelist as an ARCT. I know I don't play anymore, but when I used to, the seeing someone on an ARC job during an event gave me two very useful consistent pieces of information (could make a huge difference in 1-lifes or large events). 1.) I know that they'll have similar firepower to me, I know their equipment. 2.) I know we will at least be somewhat on the same page assuming they remember the training, lets me know there are more communication options available. Allowing trainees will kinda ruin the second benefit, but like I said, unless it's a one-life event or something where I'm separated and looking for backup, it won't really change a lot. It's more of a comfort thing.

 

+1 honestly dude no way to know if it'll work without trying. GOOD LUCK!!! If it ends up sucking, you can just revert back no big deal

Edited May 1, 2022 by Fizzik

[Mitchell]

Look at one point I'd probably of 100% agreed with y'all and honestly these trainings would be dope for a much more serious server or hell an Arma server maybe. But this is garry's mod, and a very relaxed server.

I've thought that ARC trainings are flawed and need revamping but this is going very overboard and I don't think fits within the archetype that the server is trynna fit into. -1

[Sriracha]

 

5 minutes ago, Fenrir said:

3. This is way beyond what serious level of play that the current player base would want.

I am going to remain mostly impartial for the time being, but the entire player base does not need to be ARC trained. 

These trainings would be for those who seek the more serious aspects of the server and wish to be a staple of the server, not everyone needs to go through these, it is a choice.

1 minute ago, Mitchell said:

But this is garry's mod, and a very relaxed server.

Read the above statement, if you don't want that serious experience and want to play for the relaxed aspect of the server... Don't go to the trainings?

[Fenrir]

1 minute ago, Sriracha said:

These trainings would be for those who seek the more serious aspects of the server and wish to be a staple of the server, not everyone needs to go through these, it is a choice.

Yeah... so being serious from time to time is fine. But expecting 6hrs+? We can't even get serious 1hr deployments most of the time.

I got yelled at as Keller and Bacara for having too long and too serious of KU tryouts. The want for ARC slots would drop drastically if this came out.

[Conrad]

2 minutes ago, Fenrir said:

But expecting 6hrs+? We can't even get serious 1hr deployments most of the time.

These aren't back to back? Its more spread out, which is one part I personally like of this idea. Keeps people's attention more easily without tiring them out.

Also the suggestion is more focused on wiping the training, not so much the change. While they do want feedback on the changes please keep your vote directed at the wipe. Thanks.

[Slak]

Restating my comment as I am just going to touch base on the question asked. I don’t think people should go through the same information they had to go through MULTIPLE times already(for those that went through so many wipes and recerts) I am all for the change but not the recert.

-1

 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Slak
Reformed my comment

[Lyonaxis]

+1  

As the current Shaak Ti I fully support the direction Rancor wishes to go in. I have complete trust that Rancors HC will be able to pull this off! 

[Brooklyn]

1 minute ago, Fenrir said:

But expecting 6hrs+?

Just want to touch on this point. Currently, the 3 ARC Trainings we have create a roughly estimated time of 4 hours and 30min Maximum. These trainings, only add 10 minutes. For a total of 4 hours and 40 minutes. Not to mention this is more spread out, so people are sitting and waiting for 2 hours a day to complete trainings. On your previous point #3. Only 1 person is required to host Day 1,2,4,5. Then for Days 3 and 6, it requires a minimum of 2 people. This puts significantly less strain on Rancor to host as we don't need 4-5 members + staff every time. Hopefully this clears up some of your issues with this

[Fenrir]

4 minutes ago, Conrad said:

Also the suggestion is more focused on wiping the training, not so much the change. While they do want feedback on the changes please keep your vote directed at the wipe. Thanks.

"Suggestion: We want to change ARC Trainings from what it currently is, a 3 staged tryout, to a 6 staged training that teaches and improves on the people who attend. I will explain this in detail."

It's about a full change and wipe.

[Brooklyn]

4 minutes ago, Slak said:

am also very confused why you don’t just add an extra informational training or reform W&T

This could work, but if we were to add everything we want to into this one training, it would take 4 hours.

1 hour ago, Brooklyn said:

Implementation:

ARC Training Changes:

These changes will be happening with ARC Regardless, the reason I wrote it all out is so you, as a community, can understand where we are coming from when we are literally revamping all of the ARC Program. This is not the voting topic. However we will look at any feedback you all give.

ARC Trainee (ARCT) Program:

Again, not the voting topic, but we will look into any feedback given on the topic.

ARC Recertification:

This is the voting topic. I know people who have been effected by an ARC Recert in the past most likely still has grudges against it, but I hope you read and understand why we want to make a change this big. That will be all. Thank you for reading and giving this idea a chance

@Fenrir

[Brooklyn]

1 minute ago, Brooklyn said:

This could work, but if we were to add everything we want to into this one training, it would take 4 hours.

@Fenrir

I put the training changes in here so people would understand why a recert would be necessary. Not to vote on making the changes.

[CruorFlumine]

-1

this will screw over a lot of people who cant make the times or don't have the time to attend these. Its hard enough to get someone to host selections, leadership, W&T as is during off times, lets not make it more of a pain in the rear for those who cant make the times to get what they need. The current system works fine, if youre concerned about people not passing any of the steps, then help them then and there to improve then give them another chance to make an attempt. 

[Brooklyn]

1 minute ago, Fenrir said:

The fact that you've already decided on such a huge change is cringe and should have been discussed outside of just Rancor High Command and High Command in general.

We are still looking at community feedback, which is another reason the trianing changes are added in the post. I also referenced it in the quote below

1 hour ago, Brooklyn said:

Again, not the voting topic, but we will look into any feedback given on the topic.

1 hour ago, Brooklyn said:

This is not the voting topic. However we will look at any feedback you all give.

 

2 minutes ago, Fenrir said:

You aren't gonna teach anything that is super new or useful on this server no matter what you think you are gonna do.

Look, I understand your issues with it, every single person would have to rerun this if they are ARC Trained. This also includes the people make the suggestion. We are under the same time frame as everyone. We are looking past the rose colored glasses and looking at the future of ARC and the future member of the ARC Program. We want to see new people be better than we were. We also want to make sure all ARCs are trained the same and uphold the standards we expect. We aren't looking at saving ourselves. This isn't for solo gain. This is for the betterment of ARC

[Hanz]

+1 TBH. I think ARC trainings really have needed to be more helpful than they are. At first I said no because I didn't want to have to do Recerts. 

The only issue I have is the 30 day period to get the recertified after you do Day 1. I am just a little confused why that was decided. If that could be cleared up it would help me support this even more.

[Ratio]

-1

So, just so I'm not making a cookie-cutter response, I'm mainly putting in this vote simply because I'm against training wipes in general. I believe that at times you need to be reevaluated (something I would actually be open to do it if I, say got pulled aside for it) but to lose everything isn't really an ideal thought. I remember first time around I had my ARC training for years and Dennis' revamping of the trainings came around and (love you Dennis) it wasn't substantial whatsoever and the fail rate was just higher. I actually believe that some middle ground can be reached in this so it's not a repeat of what happened before.

That being said, if it does come to me having to get recerted, I will actually go to the recerts. I just expect to learn something valuable and new because if I'm going to show up and relearn what bounding and ace reports are all over again, then it'll just make me wonder why I'm even there. Something that comes to mind and really worries me is that this is just going to turn into an overcomplicated version of what we have now regardless of the layout that this provided--the curriculum being vague and not necessarily giving us an idea of why we need two sets of trainings days and two different SIMs. I'm sure there are reasons, but I don't want a repeat of "NOT YOUR GRANDMA'S TECH TRAINING" to start applying to ARC.

If I'm missing something please let me know so I can give a more educated response.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Ratio

[Baron]

Two different posts should have been made under a different section.  One pertaining to the changes that are happening and one about voting for recertification's. This could have avoided confusion. 

-1 on recertification's. I don't see this as necessary to force everyone to redo something they have attained and still actively use. Nothing drastically is changing at it's core just the format is changing. If the format is changing why force a wipe? Unless a drastic core is changing on the server were everyone is going to re-learn something completely new (mechanics wise, drastic shift in gameplay style on the server, etc...) then it isn't needed. 

Questions:  What is the end goal of this change? What kind of "ARC Troopers" are you trying to "produce" with these changes? 

[Gears]

Gonna be honest. the ARCT Part seems kinda pointless. Its always been a limited position on the server and I personally believe unless you fully pass you shouldnt have the whitelist, it just seems weird to someone who hasnt gone through the full extent of the program to just be allowed to run about in what is one of the most powerful loadouts on the server.

I have a couple questions. these 6 days. I personally see your point of view if all these days actually require someone to be in game and doing things, but if some of days just requires you to be in a channel while a rancor officer/nco reads out a document in a monotone voice then it can honestly be thrown into a day with actual physical training. For me this looks like your just adding more days to add padding to what already is a big training to the server. I want to know how much of this actually needs to be done on the day and not just being given a document for someone to study? Day 1 looks like it could be within day 2. People have time in their lives, I understand your giving fair chance for people to get on. But as much as I dislike this statement.. this is just a Gmod server man.

Second question, The issue I had with the previous and current system is when these days are gonna be conducted, how available are they gonna be. Are EU people going to have to be up past midnight just to get a 30 minute training or even an hour+ tryout. This is so dependent on a battalions activity and to go from 3 to 6 days to arc people may be having to wait a long time compared to previously.

Im not a fan of wipes, which yes is ironic coming from me. But we have been through how many ARC Wipes now? It just seems like a cop out if the main purpose of the trainings and the standards of the ARC hasnt changed, then there isnt a reason for a wipe other than clenaing up your spreadsheets.

 

-1

Edited May 1, 2022 by Gears

[Comics]

Rancor BCMD try not to wipe ARC trainings challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

You say it's not a wipe but it is effectively a wipe. They need to do all the trainings except Selections which means it's basically just doing the whole new training. I don't see a difference except a larger frame of time to do it. This is a wipe and I think it's a bit dishonest to frame it as not being one.

I also don't really see how this is much different, I dunno maybe I am insane but it sounds like more W&T with extra SIMs/Tests on top. I don't think anyone who goes through ARC training does it for the training, they do it for the job and you can pump the hours and time spend listening to some guy read off a doc but people don't go to trainings to learn shit. They go to trainings to be able to do stuff.
maybe it will be more involved and interesting than some bloke just talking at you but I still don't think that gets rid of the underlying fact people do trainings for the reward, not to learn shit. This sounds like change for the sake of change, this doesn't seem to be addressing any of the actual issues I've heard people complain about it just seems to prolong the time for which people have to endure already very unpopular trainings

 

hard -1 on the recerts, that is a wipe stop saying it's not
I am undecided on the whole new system but I cannot see it ever making ARC troopers any better. It feels like any attempts at this from RANCOR will create more dislike towards ARC shit in general. so leaning -1
-1 on ARCT. Just let them pass the program then give em it. Seems completely pointless to award people before they've even finished

 

Just a question, did you ask ARC from other battalions or people who are trained in general if they had criticisms of the system or even possible suggestions for improvement? It'd be nice to hear you talked to the community rather than made an idea purely from inside RANCOR hc. 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Comics

[Pronto]

So I think this may lead to an answer that HOPEFULLY helps actually relieve some of the tension in here.

Already the trainings are few and far between.  Hard enough for people to attend as is. Is there a plan to allow lower ranks to host the trainings? What steps will be in place to allow this to be a smooth training system and not something that's "Once every 2 weeks at one time only and if you don't make it at an NA time slot then you'll never be an ARC?" 

Is RANCOR gearing up to begin actively hosting these at irregular times/intervals as needed to help the server catch back up once this is potentially implemented?
 

[Crimson]

This is funny.

Alrighty my opinion is quite basic. As is, we host ARC trainings dominantly in EST based towards members in the Americas. EU times are neglected more cases then not. So wiping and moving trainings more spread out does nothing besides says we do something through out the week. That's the honest truth. Was to what we can change within the trainings I am for. I think Weapons and Tactics does neither of which it claims to train. Most of the tactics in the trainings are already taught outside of Rancor or are heavily outdated and or do not apply to Gmod AI. So for a rework of trainings I am for however I am against spreading them out since it offers no difference.

Secondly, as for wiping the training. It will make no difference. We will get the same people with the trainings. All it does is say I reworked it on my description. Same goes for re-certs. Just a lazy wipe. People are more interested in passing then what is inside of the training. Now that is not everyone but that speaks for most of the server population. A good example is when we do re-certs. Looking at the test scores it shows most of them barely pass or don't know what we have down on our trainings. You know, I know.

Conclusion. I personally want change to the trainings. I want to see them actually make people better at events so we can do harder events with more challenge that isn't more droids. So anything to move that forward I will always support. However, This change is not it. If I am honest this seems derived from experiences from other servers if I am honest. It also is long to be long. I would like to see a revise and my opinion might change however as it stands.

-1 to Wiping ARC
+1 to revise the Training.

[Brooklyn]

26 minutes ago, Comics said:

Just a question, did you ask ARC from other battalions or people who are trained in general if they had criticisms of the system or even possible suggestions for improvement? It'd be nice to hear you talked to the community rather than made an idea purely from inside RANCOR hc.

Isn't that the point of the server suggestion? And the portion where we asked for community feedback?

8 minutes ago, Pronto said:

Is RANCOR gearing up to begin actively hosting these at irregular times/intervals as needed to help the server catch back up once this is potentially implemented?

31 minutes ago, Gears said:

Are EU people going to have to be up past midnight just to get a 30 minute training or even an hour+ tryout.

We intend to have the schedule change yes. 2 days in a week are going to be scheduled times and the rest is by a request basis. Obviously it'll be hectic for the Recert process, and during this period Rancor HC would host a majority of it, but after that, We are motioning to have SNCOs hosting a couple of these like day 1 & 2 and potentially 5. this way 85% of the battalion is participating in this change and are actively helping people get their training. There aren't exclusive EU times, but we are more than willing to work with you on times.

 

35 minutes ago, Gears said:

I want to know how much of this actually needs to be done on the day and not just being given a document for someone to study?

Day 1 is an informational day. Day 5 is quizzing and situational learning. These are days for people to ask questions and also learn and be proactive about it. The rest are in game on that day. And no, no documents are being given out to study. 

 

37 minutes ago, Gears said:

For me this looks like your just adding more days to add padding to what already is a big training to the server

I know what you mean, but we also don't want to 1. Overload people on information, and 2. Not have 2 hour long trainings

35 minutes ago, Comics said:

You say it's not a wipe but it is effectively a wipe. They need to do all the trainings except Selections which means it's basically just doing the whole new training. I don't see a difference except a larger frame of time to do it. This is a wipe and I think it's a bit dishonest to frame it as not being one.

At the end of the 30 day period and you haven't completed the training or asked for an extension. You lose your whitelist and status yes. The difference is, you pick up where you left off when you want to continue. If you finished Day 4 and didn't wanna finish, then when you come back and want to continue, you start where you left off.

34 minutes ago, Comics said:

This is a wipe and I think it's a bit dishonest to frame it as not being one.

 

[Comics]

7 minutes ago, Brooklyn said:

Isn't that the point of the server suggestion? And the portion where we asked for community feedback?

The point of a suggestion is to get a specific idea added to the server. Making the actual contents of the suggestion happens before you make the post. The idea is usually finished when the post is made. You should ask people. there's a reason similar suggestions cannot be posted within 60 days of each other, it's because once you make a suggestion you get the community to vote on this idea and this idea only. This is not a feedback forum, this is asking the community if they want this idea added.

I think it probably would've been smarter to make a general post about changes to ARC and feedback since it's not something the community has the right to vote on. Then once that was sorted make a suggestion about doing the wipe. Cause you're mixing the wipe suggestion and changes feedback

Edited May 1, 2022 by Comics

[Finn]

I'm 100% behind this change. For a long time ARC trainings have been in an awkward between place of being both 'elite' and useless, and this overhaul will make ARC trainings actually prevalent again.

 

Also because I know it's a hot topic, ARC probably should be wiped. The fact that the proposed changes give everyone a month long period from when they start (NOTE THIS IS NOT 30 DAYS FROM THE DAY THE CHANGE STARTS, BUT 30 DAYS FROM WHEN YOU WALK UP TO A RANCOR OFFICER AND SAY "I'd like to start the recert process") should be an indicator that Rancor HC doesn't want everyone to lose their trainings.

This isn't a Dennis wipe, so stop acting like it is. 

Stop acting like wipes are the end of the world, because they aren't. If you really care about the ARC program, get the trainings again and stop being lazy.

Stop arguing just for the sake of arguing.

-If you think this is a pointless change, then who cares, it's not gonna affect you. 

-If you think this is bad because people have to redo their trainings, then welcome to Synergy. Trainings and certifications get wiped all the time, this isn't some new concept, and it isn't the end of the world. 

 

 

Also love the usual trend of oldheads coming out of the fucking woodworks to stop anything from changing. Really helps make the community grow and change for the better.

[Brooklyn]

5 minutes ago, Comics said:

The point of a suggestion is to get a specific idea added to the server.

Look, if the recert doesn't pass then it doesn't pass. I'm not going to gripe on it or hate the people that didn't like it. It's up because community opinion matters when this kind of thing happens. As for the changes to the Training itself, if the Recert doesn't happen, it will have 0 effect on the people who are -1ing. If anything, the only people affected are Rancor SNCO+ and New ARCT. This was put up for an idea. This isn't a normal suggestion as this is going solely through directors. Again, if it doesn't happen it doesn't happen. I'm here to justify why it should, if the community says no, then it is what it is. We are trying, that's what matters to me.

[Comics]

18 minutes ago, Finn said:

-If you think this is bad because people have to redo their trainings, then welcome to Synergy. Trainings and certifications get wiped all the time, this isn't some new concept, and it isn't the end of the world. 

People complain every time Med or Eng is wiped. This isn't because they hate change this is because they getting retrained for nothing. This is the big issue with the suggestion, people don't want it wiped because every wipe changed nothing and promises made here don't seem to be changing anything like that either. Yeah it's not the "end of the world" but it's just not preferable. No one is claiming it's the end of the server, this is just a lie lmao

18 minutes ago, Finn said:

-If you think this is a pointless change, then who cares, it's not gonna affect you. 

it's a public form, and he asked for opinions. If it's a useless change why would we support it? 

If it changes nothing but wipes a bunch of people why would the public be in favour of it.

 

If the suggestion was open about the good reforms it was making people would probably easily support it. But it seems like another classic RANCOR wipe with no change at all. Extending the trainings would look good to us if they said what the contents would be. W&T seems to have been turned into 2 days but what are 3&4 there's no information I can see. It just seems all cosmetic, of course people are gonna oppose a wipe if it adds nothing.
Everyone wants RANCOR to change and improve their training but this just doesn't seem to be fixing any of these issues

[Guac]

I may of not caught this in the string of messages within this thread, but I am quite confused. This is, what appears to be, a 2 part suggestion. In which both parts are things that Rancor HC can do without a suggestion?

 

I think the biggest issue that the community faces when it comes to a change like this is simple, but there are no guarantees that a new ARC training system will work, as this training isn’t viewable to the public, yet effects all those who currently, or will eventually receive it. 
 

I’m not going to write out an MLA formatted document essay to say I don’t want my training wiped, cause I don’t. Call it selfish, or ignorant, or conservative, I honestly don’t care lmao. 
 

I encourage Rancor HC to make any and all changes to ARC as they want. At the end of the day, Synergy is built on backwards development. It seems like we don’t learn from previous changes / mistakes. I pray to Joah that this would be the final and everlasting, completely encompassing change… but I don’t believe that. 
 

good luck -1

[Maddoxx]

11 minutes ago, Guac said:

In which both parts are things that Rancor HC can do without a suggestion?

 

I wouldn’t give permission to wipe arc trainings or do any forum of re-certification unless it passed a community suggestion. Changing just the training however is in full control of them so long as it doesn’t effect any currently trained members status. 

[Unkindled]

After reading about this I don't really think these are the things we discussed about changing ARC previously. From what I understand what you wanted to do before was to make it into 2 stages. One being the normal selection process with some minor changes that benefit induvial players instead of the entire team. The 2nd thing you mentioned you guys mentioned to me was the removal of Weapons & Tactics as an individual part and combining it with Leadership to see if they candidates will use these new teachings in this part.  These things I mentioned were the changes I highly agreed with. The changes you are expressing and suggesting now I think are going into the total opposite direction of where we should be going. I understand this process gives the ARC training more meaning that the person truly had to earn this rank and show that they have the ability to be an ARC trooper.  Also for the Recertification thing it is basically a wipe.... You're having all ARC trained personnel to have to this entire 6 day process. Basically starting from ground up.  There are just a lot of things I disagree with in these changes. I think differently from how things should be done but I just really wanted to express my opinion about this.

My main overall standing: I understand your goals for this entire thing is the output of quality ARC troopers, Is making the process like this better maybe it is? Is there better solutions that can make this a lot simpler most likely. I just don't agree with the changes you guys are wanting to do making it longer and within a 4-6 day process. I just don't like that it doesn't sit well with me. Also the recertification is basically a wipe so I don't agree with that either. There are a lot more things I disagree with but thats the main things.

-1

[Bird]

I agree that changes should be made to the ARC trainings. Change is good.

I don't agree with the recertifications. I just feel this is unneeded.

+1 for revamping the ARC trainings.

-1 for recertifications.

I hope with the addition of ARCT again eARC can makes its return and when you fail you get eLiminated. I'll be here all night.

[Sriracha]

+1

I openly back this for reasons that have been brought to me not just by members of RANCOR command, but those participating battalion ARC's in the past. ARC has simply become a collection of a training. The current time table for ARC trainings is a minimum of 6 days, given the way the trainings are spread out clocking in at 4 hours and 30 minutes, and if you miss one training you will have to wait two weeks to obtain it.

With this new system, the ARC trainees will have 6 trainings to complete in a span after clearing selections, they do not have a time limit set on them and will not have to wait two weeks for another training to be held, they can reach out to the RANCOR member who can host them, and do it upon THEIR AVAILABILITY.

This not only makes the trainings more available for the people, but it shows commitment from those going for it, and will hopefully not burn people out of waiting two weeks for each training should they fail... These reforms seek to TRAIN ARC troopers rather than evaluate them and push them through with less structure.

(TLDR: Less time spent for trainings should you fail 1/3 normal ones now, you actually learn and retain information you will be tested on, and it alleviates pressures from both RANCOR and attending ARCT's, that is just how I see these changes)

[Mystic]

I don't agree with the recerting 

5 hours ago, Comics said:

Rancor BCMD try not to wipe ARC trainings challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)

You say it's not a wipe but it is effectively a wipe. They need to do all the trainings except Selections which means it's basically just doing the whole new training. I don't see a difference except a larger frame of time to do it. This is a wipe and I think it's a bit dishonest to frame it as not being one.

I also don't really see how this is much different, I dunno maybe I am insane but it sounds like more W&T with extra SIMs/Tests on top. I don't think anyone who goes through ARC training does it for the training, they do it for the job and you can pump the hours and time spend listening to some guy read off a doc but people don't go to trainings to learn shit. They go to trainings to be able to do stuff.
maybe it will be more involved and interesting than some bloke just talking at you but I still don't think that gets rid of the underlying fact people do trainings for the reward, not to learn shit. This sounds like change for the sake of change, this doesn't seem to be addressing any of the actual issues I've heard people complain about it just seems to prolong the time for which people have to endure already very unpopular trainings

 

hard -1 on the recerts, that is a wipe stop saying it's not
I am undecided on the whole new system but I cannot see it ever making ARC troopers any better. It feels like any attempts at this from RANCOR will create more dislike towards ARC shit in general. so leaning -1
-1 on ARCT. Just let them pass the program then give em it. Seems completely pointless to award people before they've even finished

 

Just a question, did you ask ARC from other battalions or people who are trained in general if they had criticisms of the system or even possible suggestions for improvement? It'd be nice to hear you talked to the community rather than made an idea purely from inside RANCOR hc. 

 

^ -1

[Dono]

+1 The main reason why ppl want ARC to be revamped is because of the lack of quality of the ppl who go through the program and have the certification already. The only way to improve ARC across the board is to force ppl to recertify with the new changes, it defeats the purpose of changing the ARC program. Gmod barely sees new players now anyways, this would give a lot of ppl on the server something to do as well, instead of just bhoping around base mindlessley.



Now 6 days is a little bit much, thats like joining a big Arma unit but I think it can be done since ARC is an OPTIONAL program. ARC are supposed to be the best of the best in the battalions, if cpl joe shmoe can out maneuver an ARC trooper, shit aint right. Serious RP is non existent on this server, the ability to have a somewhat more serious thing here is amazing. If you dont want to see seriousness, dont join ARC. I can also say that as an Arma player, some of this training goes beyond gmod in a lot of ways. There are lots of opportunities to practice leadership and communication skills, trainings like this only build character and they are optional for those who dont give a damn.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Dono

[SquishyFishyy]

9 hours ago, Brooklyn said:

Failing Day 3 or Day 6 will not get your trainings removed. All you will have to do is redo what you failed on, and try again. Again, you can do as many in 1 Day at a time.

Ok so since this stupid quote has to be at the top I will start with this. I know that I am not ARC Certified so no one is probably going to give a shit about my opinion. What I will say about this is that I do not agree that they do not get their trainings removed. It is a completely new program where everyone STILL has to go through selections just like they did. The main difference is that if I pass selections and fail on day 3 I have to do it again. They did not do anything extra nor did they earn their day 3 or day 6 pass so I personally do not agree with this. I feel that it is weird to still require someone to pass selections NOW and then those in the past that specifically only passed selections are cool to fail day 3 or day 6.


What I will say about the 6 day program however is that this is a great idea. I am Air Assault Qualified in the actual United States Military and it was an 11 day course that tested you. You had to make sure you could climb a rope on day 1 at the end of an obstacle course after being smoked (forced to do rigorous exercise for anywhere between 10 minutes and 45 minutes) for about 30 minutes. If you could not pass that obstacle course on day 1 you automatically failed the course. You then spent Phase 1 in the class room which was followed by a test to make sure you knew everything and if you failed the test you then failed the course. Phase 2 was learning how to Slingload different equipment underneath the various types of helicopters and then again followed by a test which if you failed the test you failed the course. Phase 3 began which was repelling down a tower to learn and then repelling out of a helicopter at about 85 ft. If you could not pass this phase again you failed. Literally on graduation day you had a 12 mile ruck march that was required to be completed in 3 hours with 60 pounds of gear again this was literally on graduation day and if you could not complete it you failed the course. 

I am fully in support of this model of ARC Trainings however I feel that if 1 person fails day 3 or 6 they should be required to start over from step 1 no matter who they are because if you are ARC trained and you come back to the server and fail day 3 or even day 6 you clearly need to be retrained from day 1 INCLUDING THE SELECTIONS. 


I understand that me not being ARC Trained probably means that my opinion doesnt mean a damn.. but the fact that I served 4 years in the military and passed a school that has a 35% pass rate I feel my opinion should be atleast SEMI valid....

[Pronto]

I am quite happy with RANCORS response on how they would aid in making this a fluid system. Sometimes change can hurt, but it gives us something to do.

+1

[Bacta]

As long as the ARC Trainings are beneficial and actually have a impact im fine with it, it sucks and the selfish part in me says I hate Brooklyn for making me waste my time but i know this is neccesary, not everything needs to be the same, SWRP changes so much in command, leadership,standerds, its foolish to assume that your precious ARC Training you got 3 years ago should stay the same.I welcome the change and confident in Rancor ability to ensure this will be a effective change. 

Regardless of what Brooklyn thinks the time to actually get ARC Trained will take significantly longer than usual (I was estimating 2-3 weeks for most people) which is also something im perfectly ok with, we need less ARC on the server. A longer and harder ARC Training has been something everyone wants but no one has the guts or is to selfish to change it.

+1 I dont like Jayaar

Edited May 2, 2022 by Bacta

[BigZach]

-1 not really worth the hassle tbh, took me like 2 years to get ARC in the first place being an EU andy this shit seems like a drag. I also thought there were issues with the 3 ARC trainings we already have being hosted consistently.

However with the changes I'd be more than happy to attend the new trainings optionally at my own pace rather than in the small amount of time 30 days is.

Edited May 4, 2022 by BigZach

[Dilqui]

Having read and re-read the OP, I'll go ahead and throw in my two cents.

 

Neutral on the Training changes. They could be good, but I'm super weary of making stuff take longer. Getting ARC trainings already are a huge pain, so unless you are seriously going to ramp up how many are hosted this may just make it much harder to get things moving. Also, I'm curious: If people have passed selections, but for some reason or another haven't completed the other two, do they have to re-do selections under the new system you are thinking of implementing?

+1 on the ARCT. I like the idea and I'm in favor of letting people "play around" with their new toys, yes there is potential for abuse but as long as its monitored this shouldn't be a big issue.

-1 on mandatory recerts. Unless you are going to significantly change the content of the trainings, there is no need. And if you ARE significantly changing the trainings, well, then this is a wipe in all but name. Note that I said mandatory recerts. If you instead allowed recert as a current Arc as an option rather than mandatory I think you'd get a lot less pushback, people that aren't interested in retaking it won't complain and those that want to be caught up to snuff will have the option and ability to do so.

 

Anderson

Edited May 2, 2022 by Dilqui

[Otter]

-1 some of the people that already host the trainings complain about hosting them. But now if you had the 6 day training they'll complain even more.

[A-a-ron]

41 minutes ago, Otter said:

-1 some of the people that already host the trainings complain about hosting them. But now if you had the 6 day training they'll complain even more.

Did you read anything Brooklyn wrote or just read like 4 comments, its a 6 day training you can do over multiple months of time. Its not 6 days in a row

[Rohan]

Dont know what forums mod removed my vote, but -1, agreed with what Crimson said

[Dennis]

-1 i agree with Ratio and Comics

[shadowlegion11]

-1 some one removed my previous message as i was editing it. I tried to propose 3 different ideas to u guys, to change the system to make it accessible to people with terrible schedules or a alternative system that was a 2nd way to become ARC which brought in more recruits that have times that didnt work with the proposed trainings. you guys then blew me off and never let me propose the idea. if possible id like to promote my ideas to you guys for a change. that might actually help and get more guys rather than making it almost inaccessible to some people with bad work schedules. DM in discord if u would like to hear them. im in the 212th discord as Sixes.

Edited May 3, 2022 by shadowlegion11

[Dirty]

-1 Bigman how the hell can you suggest making it even longer and more draining than it already is? Its a garrys mod server my man I grasp you want it to be harder because its meant to be the best of the best, ironically being harder than something that should be harder to get into, by that I mean RC. The current system already sucks for EU people as it is and I really do not think that changing it to be even longer and more time consuming is a) fair and b) logical, if you so desperately want the process to make people into better gmod starwars soldiers then actually make good changes to the system instead of saying lets make it take even longer and be more irritating to get, oh and lets throw in if you fail on day 3 you can go right back to square 1 after selections, I really don't understand whose thought process this was but I really think they should rethink it because its just plain stupid. If people do end up doing the trainings may god bless them because this suggestion is just ridiculous. Keep in mind as is its already extremely annoying to be on and available to play at times the current trainings even happen, even more so for EU like I stated, unless as somebody else stated you are gonna host more which I highly, highly doubt then big nono from me.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Dirty

[Quassont]

-1 Not only are you suggesting essentially wiping ARC by making them do all the trainings again, you guys are ignoring ARC officers+ in other battalions and blatantly making it a pain in the ass for people that have already completed the trainings. Why not instead let ARC trainings be battalionized and let ARCL's decide how they do the trainee program for each battalion or set guidelines for their battalionized trainee program. 

If you guys are wanting to kill Rancor activity for having everyone basically starting from Day 1 again, if the suggestion does get approved, that's where it looks like it's heading.

If you want to here more info about a new Battalionized ARC Trainee system, contact Sixes in the 212th Attack Battalion Discord

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Quassont

[Heart]

In my eyes, I have to ask, why the change? 

A lot of Alphas and ARC troopers are very comfortable with their slot on their job, and the current way of hosting the 3-stage tryout is, while not perfect, the best way to accommodate for majority of people. 

In a perfect world, it's a cool idea. However, I'm willing to bet nobody is saying, "I'm gonna take AN ENTIRE WEEKS worth of time to keep the whitelist that I earned." I know you don't have to do the days back-to-back, I know you can take pauses, I know all of this. But where is the logistical process? Who is going to be hosting ARC D1-6? Is it going to be like Youngling trials where if enough trainees show up, they can request a Day, or is it when RANCOR feels it's necessary? 

Secondly, does this increase the quality of ARC troopers? Or does it make it more tedious to become one?

Third, is it going to be SIMs with all the other trainees, or is it individual effort? And if the latter, how do you accommodate for the amount of time it would take?

-1 to the new training style, if I was an NCO in RANCOR I think I would hate doing these. It seems like a massive time sink to maybe improve the knowledge and tactics (?) of an ARC trooper

 

I understand the huge sentiment with "This is not a wipe" but I feel it's more of, "We made this thing and you have to try it OR ELSE." and forcing people to do something under the threat of their character is already a negative for most. 

MED and ENG wipes don't get the same flak because they're fundamentally similar between training updates. However, even with the EASIEST trainings (EOD for example), telling someone EOD is getting wiped would piss them off. Especially if you said, "You have to try this new 3-step EOD training!". And this "wipe" in particular is because you're asking for SIX HOURS of online time (over the course of a month albeit) for what purpose? Why can't new recruits attend two "days" in a day? My only assumption is that multiple days won't be hosted on the same day for recruits.

If an ARC trooper re-certifying can do days 1-3 in one go, what purpose does gridlocking a new recruit have? Let people complete their training at their own pace.

If you want to increase the quality of people getting the whitelist, whether by vetting them or training them better, it doesn't have to be through this (and I hate to say this) almost tyrannical, tedious process.

And if you want ARC to maintain its popularity, I wouldn't threaten whitelist removal after a month of not doing training sessions.

-1 For re-cert

Edited May 3, 2022 by Heart

[Whataburger]

as a wise bacta once said 

"change is good"

+1

*/j* bacta is stupid but i do still +1 nonetheless, marvel is right.

[A-a-ron]

2 hours ago, Quassont said:

-1 Not only are you suggesting essentially wiping ARC by making them do all the trainings again, you guys are ignoring ARC officers+ in other battalions and blatantly making it a pain in the ass for people that have already completed the trainings. Why not instead let ARC trainings be battalionized and let ARCL's decide how they do the trainee program for each battalion or set guidelines for their battalionized trainee program. 

If you guys are wanting to kill Rancor activity for having everyone basically starting from Day 1 again, if the suggestion does get approved, that's where it looks like it's heading.

If you want to here more info about a new Battalionized ARC Trainee system, contact Sixes in the 212th Attack Battalion Discord

 

 

On 5/1/2022 at 1:14 PM, Brooklyn said:

ARC Recertification:

1. I know, I know, but bare with me here for a minute. This is not a Wipe. Again, I ask you read in full what this entails before making your judgement. This is how the ARC Recert will work:
   1. All ARC Trained individuals will have to go through the 6 Training Days to keep their ARC Training
   2. Current ARC Trained individuals will not have to retake Selections. Instead, they will start on Day 1.
   3. Unlike new ARCTs, ARCs who require recertification can run through as many days as needed in 1 day. For Example, I can complete Day 1-3 at one time.
   4. Upon completing Day 1. A 30 Day timer will begin. Should you not complete the 6 Trainings in that 30 Days, your trainings will be stripped.
   5. Failing Day 3 or Day 6 will not get your trainings removed. All you will have to do is redo what you failed on, and try again. Again, you can do as many in 1 Day at a time.
   6. These 30 Days do not start at the same time for everyone. They only start when you complete your Day 1.
   7. During this time period, you will not lose a lore character, ARCO/L Positions, or Alpha Designation. You will keep them until you pass Day 6 as long as the 30 Days does not expire.
   8. You can ask for time extensions. We know Real Life is a thing. If you cannot do this in the 2 weeks, you can contact Rancor Command for an extension. 
   9. Rancor will actively pursue current ARC Slot Personnel, Lore Characters, and Alpha Designated Personnel as you will need it first to maintain your position.
2. The only way to not pass is to be lazy or push it off. I'll be honest about that. This looks like a lot, but I will put your mind at ease. Reread the ARC Training Changes Section and look at the time it takes for each training. These are maximum times only, so they can take less time.

Read 7. since you skipped over that might wanna just read the suggestion to begin with since you clearly never did.

+1 ARC isn't special anymore with the way it currently is

[meowthemeower]

Gonna be straightforward in this. I don’t want my arc wiped. The arc process takes so long for people to do and your gonna wait hold up make them spend more even more time on it? And a better thing, I’ve heard a few rancor don’t even like doing the current things moreover they are already very rare. And before someone quotes me saying did you read this and that yes I spent a lot of time reading it I could quote some of y’all. So since this suggestion is about wiping arc ima have to say

-1 reason being->

1. you didn’t talk with the community the worst way to do it is ooop suggestion about it. Idk about other people but finding out the process has started to remove my trainings without even discussing it with me doesn’t sit to well. I was told there’s a suggestion about  arc wipe worst way to break news to someone terrible planning.

2. I don’t see the point? Yea you want everyone to do these cool new long grooling trainings but? Ik as much about arc as you do? I’ve read the lore, the books, the episodes, spent hours reading about arc stuff as a kid cause that shit was cool. So I get my arc training removed and have to learn stuff from a SNCO that I probably know what he’s about to say before he says it. Plus I said it before it’s already hard enough to get rancor to do the 3 trainings and y’all ask for help cause you don’t even have enough rancor to do them sometimes.
 

3. the wipe serves no purpose you can’t teach pvp skills that I already don’t know or Hevent experience having played on the server so long even so reaching semi pro in a first person shooter so what would you succeed in teaching me forcing me to do these trainings due to wiping? You would teach me nothing.

This won’t pass with how the community is voting so I will leave ya a note @Brooklyn talk with people outside rancor before you suggest something like this, cya when the cooldown is done ^_^ I’m happy you have a passion to improve arc genuinely love arc stuff so much I just feel like you have too much confidence in rancor already arc selection, w&T, and leadership are hard to host and honestly passing that shit is awsome. I remember 4 years ago back in 2018 the moment I passed I know who my teammate where, me putting ARKT instead of ARC in my name and Colt yelling at me. I feel like what your doing will take away that feeling it will feel less like a omg I finally passed woo into damm now time to attend class for 2 weeks.

If your reading this heart, comics, and hate to say it unkindled said really good stuff 

 

[Ollie_]

In all honesty this is not a bad idea I read it and in my opinion it will be good. It is not a bad thing to have a longer training process, it shows that you are committed to the program and that you care about improving. I believe forcing everyone who is currently arc trained to recert is a lot but if you made it optional for those who wanted to I think that would be a good idea.
 

+1 on the new training

-1 on mandatory recertification 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Ollie_

[Dono]

12 hours ago, meowthemeower said:

 

2. 

So I get my arc training removed and have to learn stuff from a SNCO that Iprobably know what he’s about to say before he says it.

3. the wipe serves no purpose you can’t teach pvp skills. You would teach me nothing.

The point of trainings is to teach people but also to practice skills or knowledge to understand them better. ARC is more than just lore, if you actually know the lore then you would understand why the training should be revamped. ARC troopers were supposed to be tactical advisors and the best of the best in strategy. PvP isn’t even the primary goal of the trainings, it’s about teaching practical leadership skills that go beyond gmod or any other virtual environment. The mentality that you know it all or no one can teach you something new is cringe. Not to mention extremely egotistical. 

[meowthemeower]

3 hours ago, Dono said:

The point of trainings is to teach people but also to practice skills or knowledge to understand them better. ARC is more than just lore, if you actually know the lore then you would understand why the training should be revamped. ARC troopers were supposed to be tactical advisors and the best of the best in strategy. PvP isn’t even the primary goal of the trainings, it’s about teaching practical leadership skills that go beyond gmod or any other virtual environment. The mentality that you know it all or no one can teach you something new is cringe. Not to mention extremely egotistical. 

Yes but again this is a gmod is it not? The fact is yes I’m willing to learn I’ve learned a lot in my 18 years of life and I don’t think it’s egotistical to say hey you can’t teach me arc lore and hey you can’t teach me pvp skills I can back that up with a test if need be or a aim trainer idk lol. But you say it’s about teaching practical leadership? I’ll give ya a few things to think about.

1. you say based on your disagreement with my post that
anyone that hosts these is qualified to all of a sudden teach leadership skills that will impact my life? 

2. They are supposed to teach these tactics that no one else knows the special way to clear a building or special way to infiltrate a base? Sure if this was arma and I was will my friends squaded up ready to kick some ass all for learning new things that’s what I do when I wanna get better. I’ve spent hours on different games doing research figuring out tactics here and there but This is gmod the droids got 300 hp sometimes, it’s not about strategy more so it’s about ooo I can hit this droid and he can’t see me or ooo I’m far away it can’t hit me. 
 

3. Are these trainings supposed to be a Ted talk? That’s what you make it to seem? And yes I do admit the current arc system isn’t perfect even with good leadership skills people fail due to dumbass mistakes from the people under you but as there leader you take responsibility just as much as them. So genuinely you think these so called trainings will teach life practical skills that’s why you disagree with me? Even if they do the document is only as good as the one writing it and then when someone other then the author reads it it’s even worse due to not coming from first hand experience.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by meowthemeower
Bottom sounded dumb(wrote it fast)

[Finn]

15 hours ago, meowthemeower said:

Gonna be straightforward in this. I don’t want my arc wiped. The arc process takes so long for people to do and your gonna wait hold up make them spend more even more time on it? And a better thing, I’ve heard a few rancor don’t even like doing the current things moreover they are already very rare. And before someone quotes me saying did you read this and that yes I spent a lot of time reading it I could quote some of y’all. So since this suggestion is about wiping arc ima have to say

-1 reason being->

1. you didn’t talk with the community the worst way to do it is ooop suggestion about it. Idk about other people but finding out the process has started to remove my trainings without even discussing it with me doesn’t sit to well. I was told there’s a suggestion about  arc wipe worst way to break news to someone terrible planning.

2. I don’t see the point? Yea you want everyone to do these cool new long grooling trainings but? Ik as much about arc as you do? I’ve read the lore, the books, the episodes, spent hours reading about arc stuff as a kid cause that shit was cool. So I get my arc training removed and have to learn stuff from a SNCO that I probably know what he’s about to say before he says it. Plus I said it before it’s already hard enough to get rancor to do the 3 trainings and y’all ask for help cause you don’t even have enough rancor to do them sometimes.
 

3. the wipe serves no purpose you can’t teach pvp skills that I already don’t know or Hevent experience having played on the server so long even so reaching semi pro in a first person shooter so what would you succeed in teaching me forcing me to do these trainings due to wiping? You would teach me nothing.

This won’t pass with how the community is voting so I will leave ya a note @Brooklyn talk with people outside rancor before you suggest something like this, cya when the cooldown is done ^_^ I’m happy you have a passion to improve arc genuinely love arc stuff so much I just feel like you have too much confidence in rancor already arc selection, w&T, and leadership are hard to host and honestly passing that shit is awsome. I remember 4 years ago back in 2018 the moment I passed I know who my teammate where, me putting ARKT instead of ARC in my name and Colt yelling at me. I feel like what your doing will take away that feeling it will feel less like a omg I finally passed woo into damm now time to attend class for 2 weeks.

If your reading this heart, comics, and hate to say it unkindled said really good stuff 

 

Jesus, the condescension is palpable.

 

15 hours ago, meowthemeower said:

Gonna be straightforward in this. I don’t want my arc wiped. The arc process takes so long for people to do and your gonna wait hold up make them spend more even more time on it? And a better thing, I’ve heard a few rancor don’t even like doing the current things moreover they are already very rare. And before someone quotes me saying did you read this and that yes I spent a lot of time reading it I could quote some of y’all. So since this suggestion is about wiping arc ima have to say

I'ma hit you with a 'what the fuck' right off the bat. This is not only blatantly misleading (new training takes a whole 10 minutes longer), but backed by rumors (who are these rancor that don't like doing the trainings?) and just flat out false (ARC trainings aren't rare at all).

15 hours ago, meowthemeower said:

1. you didn’t talk with the community the worst way to do it is ooop suggestion about it. Idk about other people but finding out the process has started to remove my trainings without even discussing it with me doesn’t sit to well. I was told there’s a suggestion about  arc wipe worst way to break news to someone terrible planning.

My guy, this is the literal point of the board. Rancor HC had an idea, they made it, talked with HC, then made a suggestion to get community feedback. How else would they go about making this change?

15 hours ago, meowthemeower said:

2. I don’t see the point? Yea you want everyone to do these cool new long grooling trainings but? Ik as much about arc as you do? I’ve read the lore, the books, the episodes, spent hours reading about arc stuff as a kid cause that shit was cool. So I get my arc training removed and have to learn stuff from a SNCO that I probably know what he’s about to say before he says it. Plus I said it before it’s already hard enough to get rancor to do the 3 trainings and y’all ask for help cause you don’t even have enough rancor to do them sometimes.

You claim to have read the OP, but this clearly shows you skimmed, at best. The training isn't any harder than it currently is (which isn't super hard anyways), and it's designed to not be grueling. Please, enlighten me on how 20 minutes of lore in 1 day is too hard for you. Besides how easy the trainings have been sectioned, they're also designed for less people to do them. You only need 1-2 people to do 2/3rds of the training, and the only ones that might need more than that are the practical sections.

15 hours ago, meowthemeower said:

3. the wipe serves no purpose you can’t teach pvp skills that I already don’t know or Hevent experience having played on the server so long even so reaching semi pro in a first person shooter so what would you succeed in teaching me forcing me to do these trainings due to wiping? You would teach me nothing.

No one is arguing that the wipe is going to give everyone some insane newfound knowledge. The point of the wipe is to make sure everyone is on the same level of trainings, and that the minimum skill level for all ARC troopers is consistent. You got your training years ago, with different people administering, and a different server environment. Yes, it's annoying that you have to redo it, but this isn't about you, it's about maintaining the credibility of ARCs overall. 

15 hours ago, meowthemeower said:

This won’t pass with how the community is voting so I will leave ya a note @Brooklyn talk with people outside rancor before you suggest something like this, cya when the cooldown is done ^_^ I’m happy you have a passion to improve arc genuinely love arc stuff so much I just feel like you have too much confidence in rancor already arc selection, w&T, and leadership are hard to host and honestly passing that shit is awsome. I remember 4 years ago back in 2018 the moment I passed I know who my teammate where, me putting ARKT instead of ARC in my name and Colt yelling at me. I feel like what your doing will take away that feeling it will feel less like a omg I finally passed woo into damm now time to attend class for 2 weeks.

If your reading this heart, comics, and hate to say it unkindled said really good stuff 

I can't tell how legit this advice is supposed to be. If it's sarcastic, it's obvious, and if it's real, then holy shit do you need to tone down the 'I know more than you do' attitude. Maybe think for like, half a second, that RANCOR HIGH COMMAND is suggesting this. If anyone on the server has an accurate idea of what RANCOR can host, it would be them. 

 

In conclusion,

Get learnt, and stop being obstructionist.

[Whataburger]

I wanna re-phrase what i said, i talked with some people and I believe that ARC needs a fucking wipe.

You can call it funny names sure, but everyone knows what reserts are, and im down for it. Most of the people who care about ARC and are experienced RP'ers and experienced PVP'ers can most likely work for their reserts. The difficulty of the training comes with the fact you may have to do it more than once. Not everyone is supposed to pass everything on the first try, the dedication it could take to become an ARC trooper is the same dedication that would shape them into an actual role-player. Thats what i see in the future and that's my belief. 

Which goes onto my next point, most of the people getting mass dumbed by an invisible hivemind are just trying to put out their opinions, all ARCL's and ARCO's in the server should 100% have an opinion on this matter and the fact that people think it makes sense to someones opinion is just plain. I understand most of the opinions may be... dumb, but as this is the ONE place all battalion ARC's can express their thoughts, I don't know why they can't do it without getting harassed. Still crazy to me that some people have superiority complexes and think their opinion is the only one, and the only right one. 

 

Still +1 though, a lot of you guys should have more faith in brooklyn

[Aeon]

-1 Dennis moment

[Grief]

-1 This suggestion was not the one that was brought up to the community, but this is just overall not a good idea. First off you said in the suggestion that "At no way is this a wipe", then proceed in the next line to say anyone who is ARC already has to redo the ARC trainings. 

The Original Idea Brought to us by Rancor HC:
1 - Take the main components of Leadership and merge leadership with W&T. Then during the weapons and tactics training, the people doing the trainings would go to a planet and do a SIM/Training with the knowledge and skills they learned from W&T.

2- Selections changes:
    - The current process of how selecitons goes is that if one person dies the whole team fails. The change they wanted to make was instead of everyone failing right as someone dies, they were going to change it to a point system. I.E. A team starts off with 5 points, if someone who is not good with PvE dies right off the start of the SIM. Then instead of them failing a point would be taken off their final score at the end of the SIM/Training.

You lied to this community of what changes you wanted to make to the ARC program.

[Misfit]

On 5/1/2022 at 3:36 PM, Baron said:

Two different posts should have been made under a different section.  One pertaining to the changes that are happening and one about voting for recertification's. This could have avoided confusion. 

^^ Biggest point made today
-1 tho. I love that ARC is being redone again and this time there looks like theres an actual change to it BUT
im not tryna go through 6 more trainings to be recertificated and basically keep my sub-unit alive that thrives on having ARC in the first place.

If anything recertification's should be something completely separate for current ARCs to go to and learn the new material instead of completely wiping it for said person to have to do everything over again  


Also with the new trainings, the current times they are hosted definitely needs to be changed/hosted more often (idk if you went over that or not) for the EU/overseas players going to ARC trainings at 12 am

[Unkindled]

Continuing from what I said earlier my most disagreement is that I just want it to be done differently than how it’s presented. From reading all the feedback listening to what people think I really do understand why people are +1ing the suggestion and why people are -1ing. 
 

ARC Changes: The suggestion explains its being changes from a tryout to a training which you cannot fail. (This change is fine itself that a lot of players were failing in the original because of another teammates failure or incompetence) Next you guys go on to explain that it’s going to be 6 different things. (Days 1&4 Informational. Days 2&5 are basic skills trainings. Days 3&6 are tests) The disagreements I see with the process is whether or not the guarantee to get the trainings/Appropriate scheduling with the player base. People are worried that now that they’re are 6 trainings they won’t be able to make one or schedule it appropriately. The way you guys have counteracted this possibility is the return of ARCT where someone can do this over a long time period. The reason why I personally don’t like this is the limited time I have to play nowadays I have to worry about work, family/girlfriend, classes,  outside events. I know I’ll be able to get this over a longer time frame but I’d rather complete the entire things in one whole day. I think the process will just over complicate things and the whole process of becoming an ARC trooper. In my opinion I don’t think this will really improve quality that dramatically if anything it will just teach people something new that won’t be used. 
 

Recertifications: You guys explain the recertification is not a wipe but all previous ARC troopers have to restart the process from day one. I don’t agree with this and I think you guys should keep the same process you have seeing what knowledge the person knows or not and having the person have to redo the topics they don’t know. Keep it the same for this process and have people redo any known topics they are unfamiliar with.

[Luther]

First of all I don’t even have my ARC trainings so none of this really affects me at all but it kind of seems like a lot of training. 
 

1. How the fuck are you gonna fit all of these training into peoples schedules, you are going to need a lot of people hosting.

2. Did you think about just having people pass a simple recertification test/tryout once a month to maintain their arc status? 

[Zeros]

+1 to a new training system

New trainings, yeah, that's cool and I can get behind that. 

-1 to the recert/essential wipe

Not gonna lie to ya, seeing a BH main want to make a wipe/recertification for a clone job is mf yikes.

[A-a-ron]

Do people not understand that if you change a training completely, you HAVE to wipe the training. You can’t just keep arc because you did it a year ago when that won’t even be the same training that it will be changed to, once rancor implements the new training.
 

When any training is changed it gets wiped or you have to go to a new training to understand the differences or changes occurred, you guys want to have your cake and eat it too but that’s not possible.

The way Brooklyn wants to do it is, you have to attend every new section of the training that wasn’t previously there, which is the 6 days of training since the selections probably won’t change in any significant way.

[Tripoli]

Never been ARC before, so take this with a grain of salt and know that it's from an outside perspective looking in.

The idea of going at your own pace is a solid idea, so that you aren't necessarily rushed or stressed about it, but as I saw @Luthersay that could be a lot of people. This kind of system sounds like it'd be a lot of individualized learning, which if you really are true to the value of wanting to make a difference in someone's abilities / grow their skills and what not, usually means a lot of attentive care. If there's going to be an emphasis on individuals, then the staff that runs these trainings are going to need to care about their student's progress and needs, which will vary per person as everyone has different strengths and weaknesses.

Could be envisioning this completely wrong due to fatigue and I'm a visual learner. But so, if done properly I think this could produce some quality ARCs in both merit and attitude, not to mention I think it could also develop a sort of bond across all ARC units, especially with the ARC training staff. I'd see it also being a gratifying experience to complete for those who are really gung-ho about being an ARC. 

Overall, it sounds like it'd be a nice system to improve an "esprit de corps" and make ARC something you undertake with the intention to develop your skills, with a gratifying result. So long as staff are attentive, encouraging, and constructive, this could be lit for the experience of becoming and being an ARC for those who really want it. As valid as the complaints about wiping are, if you think the process is a chore then see if you have a little more passion for another field or just stick around and go through it with an open mind; Be the constructive first generation, as that's what someone who cares about ARC and not just themselves would do imo.

Again, take that all with a grain of salt as someone who hasn't ever gone into ARC or necessarily had an interest in being one. I just know ARC is a staple thing of the Clone Wars and the server, so if it can be something unique / a positive experience for those who want in, then I support that. So, not doing a +1 or -1, just wanted to pitch in. Thanks for reading y'all, have a good one.

[Maddoxx]

Pending 

To be reviewed by the Server Directors

[Maddoxx]

After speaking with server High Command, Rancor Command, and going over the responses in the thread we have come to the following decision on this suggestion. 

The proposed update to how ARC trainings are done on server will be approved in full. 

The proposed recertification of currently ARC trained individuals will be DENIED. 

[Maddoxx]

This suggestion has been ACCEPTED.

// LOCKED

// MOVED TO [CW] SERVER SUGGESTIONS - ACCEPTED

[Jayarr]

This suggestion has been IMPLEMENTED.
(Suggestions that have been implemented into the server)