Bring back sith - hear me out

[BlackBerry]

Name: BlackBerry

RP Rank: SSG 

Suggestion: Bring back Sith Empire or some variation.

Implementation: Planet Mustafar is a relatively unused planet in terms of general RP and could be used as a hub for  the Sith empire. We still have all the old Sith models, I personally have access to all the lord+ documents as previous Dark Council. I have access to the old roster, which can be wiped. As well as the handbooks, etc. If it is not favored for Mustafar to be used as the Sith hub planet, I would personally do the searching for a Dromund Kaas or Korriban planet, I would also be willing to commission one personally.

(Additional) Argument: The Sith Empire in the past was handled pretty poorly after Joah and Jackson, with the last Dark Lord's departure early into his time as the Lord. This left the Sith with little management outside of the current Dark Council (myself included) and was thusly somewhat in a leadership stalemate as the final decisions most often require approval from the Dark Lord. Many complaints were made in relation to Sith including: lack of RP, minge related behavior, unfair power balancing, close to RDM behavior. By the end of the Sith Empire, and the beginning of the last Dark Lord's term a lot of changes were made in relation to strictness when it came to RP and reinforcement in the requirement to RP and prevent RDM and minging. If re-instated, Sith would have to be implemented on a smaller scale due to the new amount of different groups on the server, (BH, CIS) however I believe it could be implemented well, even on a smaller scale. The cap on sith members could/would be decided by Founders. An additional argument I wish to make is the fact that a lot of people (myself included) bought VIP specifically for Sith and as such, when sith was removed, they took hiatuses ranging from weeks, to years, to permanent. Furthermore, Sith being implemented would be beneficial RP wise as it would aid in missions for Jedi Shadows, BH, and CIS. There could be more passive roleplay for the jedi and clones. There could be more events/encounters in relation to the force and the dark side outside of using sith only as event jobs. And would allow the use of red crystals.

(Edit): In addition, I believe a good method of vetting candidates for Sith could be a trails/tryouts procedure, similar to BH/CIS as a prerequisite to strenuous Sith Initiation trials which would be reworked for the sake of weeding out minges. A stricter method for Rules of Engagement as well as rules in general would be for the sake of specifically preventing RDM and unprompted slaughter of clones which would prevent an enjoyable experience for clones. Power balancing would be met with the Jedi and the implemented combat leveling system that had not existed during the original Sith Empire. More than this, a rework of the Sith Handbook would be put in place to prioritize mostly RP prior to engagements in combat to ensure the prevention of causeless slaughtering.

Lore: "But the Sith are another matter entirely. Even if the Empire falls, the followers of the dark side will continue to exist in hiding. That is why I have devoted myself to studying the Sith. I am determined to find a way to cleanse the galaxy of their corrupting influence, putting an end to the eternal struggle between the light and dark sides of the Force." ―Gnost-Dural 

Rule of Two: Yes, Darth Bane implemented the infamous Rule of Two for the Sith empire following the Jedi-Sith War. However, this rule does not prevent force sensitive individuals from following the path of the dark side of the force. Not to mention, the Sith Empire in the Clone Wars did not even follow the Rule of Two strictly. Darth Plagueis had his apprentice Darth Sidious, who at the same time took on the apprentice of Darth Tyrannus and Darth Maul, the former of which took on the apprentice Asajj Ventress. This is an explicit deviation from the rule of two. There are established Grey Jedi first and foremost who follow a doctrine of balancing both light and dark. Not all force sensitives across the Starwars Galaxy are inducted into the Jedi Order. Not to mention following the Great Hyperspace War, many Sith from Korriban fled into deep space/uncharted territories. This means that Sith purebloods from the race of the Sith have the potential of still existing. Not only that but there were, in lore, orders that existed outside of the Sith Empire that studied the dark side. 

The Sorcerers of Rhand: Within the Unknown Regions spawning from those who fled from the Great Hyperspace Wars and cults they picked up on the way, The Sorcerers of Rhand were a cult devout to following "The Dark" which was a force beyond the Dark Side. This cult was considered however a dark side cult as "The Dark" was an extension of the dark side of the force. Some sorcerers of this cult would go on to join the Prophets of the Dark Side.

Prophets of the Dark Side: The Prophets of the Dark Side was an ancient cult of the dark side that emerged and separated from the Sith Empire on the planet Dromund Kaas. They persisted during the Clone Wars era as Asajj Ventress encountered them on Dromund Kaas and Darth Sidious interacted with them. This means that orders other than the Sith Empire persisted following the Dark Side. Therefore, more Sith existed than just those within the influence of Darth Sidious. 

The Blackguard of Mustafar: On Mustafar there was a militant group of dark side users called the Blackguard, formed approximately 1000 BBY and survived until 1 ABY. The Blackguard survived long and persisted even through the Rule of Two and the Jedi-Sith war. Similarly to the Prophets of the Dark Side, this group worked some with Darth Sidious, who himself had insurgents within the guard. This group, like the one prior, was therefore confirmed to be a lore group and intermingled with Darth Sidious. 

In Conclusion: There is a plethora of lore explainations for the existence of a sith empire in Synergy. Furthermore, it is not beyond a reasonable doubt to assume that another group of dark side users would establish themselves and operate under the name Sith Empire to invoke fear and intimidate. I believe that re-implementing the Sith Empire into synergy would be extremely beneficial to RP as many have talked about wanting its return. Furthermore, it would go in the way of the recent paraphrased mission statement from the Founders in the community meaning of the server being about people playing how they want to play; to have fun. This would thusly be very beneficial and would potentially attract members and may even re-invigorate some old ones. 

Workshop content if applicable: We still have all the Sith models. We could use the planet of Mustafar.
A nice looking Korriban:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1249667889
 

Edited March 18, 2021 by berry
fixed typographical errors + additional argument marked with (Edit)

[Willyworm1]

I saw bring back sith +1

[Brooklyn]

25 minutes ago, Willyworm1 said:

I saw bring back sith +1

Took the words right out my fucking mouth +1

[Black]

I actually loved playing as Sith and being (@fuck knows what clouds name on forums is) apprentice, Sith on the server made people who mained jedi actually play jedi more cause there was someone to roleplay with, anyways i hope this goes through 


+1

Edited March 18, 2021 by Black

[BlackBerry]

8 minutes ago, Taz said:

its being removed next update which is said to be out in like 2-3weeks......

 

I provided another link for a potential planet and this gives mustafar a reason to exist and potentially not be removed. They would still own the model for the planet regardless

[Guac]

-1, I don't think the sith could work in the current conditions of the server. I think BH and CIS do quite well already as apposing factions. Besides no need to draw even more numbers away from jedi.

[BlackBerry]

2 minutes ago, Guac said:

Besides no need to draw even more numbers away from jedi.

In the past sith and Jedi were not mutually exclusive, i see no reason as to why they would be if sith were reinstated. many sith in the past had characters on both, not to mention the possibility of light side conversions of sith in favor of the jedi order

[Fyi]

 

It's no secret that I really love Sith. The dynamics work well for general RP, it allows people to create characters with strengths and weaknesses, and be edgy. For our playerbase, I think it's a good addition. Due to poor leadership and timing, Sith got hit with a bunch of shitty rules that restricted the players who actually gave a damn and basically ruined the faction. Those of you who played during that time know how absolutely dogshit the ROE rules were for Sith, and it completely ruined a lot of people's fun.

However, with the current server population and how many other factions we have, I'm not sure if the server could handle another faction handily. It would require having a good handful of people playing it very frequently, which bounty hunters usually have, as well as Jedi (CIS doesn't count). Again, I would love to take another crack at Sith, especially since a lot of the people who cared about Sith are currently active and have had conversation with me about how it would be led, provided those people are put into leadership positions.

Sith needs to operate on the precedent that clones would not be the main beneficiaries for this faction. It was initially intended to create a sense of tension and RP between Jedi and Sith. Jedi, in my opinion, has been severely lacking in terms of stuff to do and ways to develop a character. If Sith is integrated properly alongside Jedi, they would compliment each other and even create opportunities to gain merits (or whatever the fuck they're called) for promotion. If both are left for their own devices, then all we have is a standoff where one side gets to have all the fun (Jedi, most likely) and the other side gets swept into the garbage, just like it did last time.

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Fyi

[Dyn]

+1 I think it could ultimately be interesting to at least attempt a revival after some time of them being gone. I know others have expressed interest and unlike BH/CIS which tend to be a minor annoyance to potential thread at present towards Jedi, Sith would offer an actual consistent antagonistic faction that fights on somewhat level field to them. I think it would need to be closely monitored by those overseeing it, but I see no reason why it could not work.
 

4 minutes ago, Guac said:

-1, I don't think the sith could work in the current conditions of the server. I think BH and CIS do quite well already as apposing factions. Besides no need to draw even more numbers away from jedi.

The factions are not exclusive to each other. You can play a sith at times and play a jedi at others. Aside from the initial newness faction that might attract people, if Jedi lose significant consistent numbers from sith being added then maybe that would be more a comment on Jedi instead?

[Craigary]

With the way opposing factions function on the server now, very deliberate and executed under heavy restrictions, I feel we have grown to be able to handle sith in a way that would be enjoyable for both sides. 
+1 

[BlackBerry]

2 minutes ago, Fyi said:

Sith needs to operate on the precedent that clones would not be the main beneficiaries for this faction. It was initially intended to create a sense of tension and RP between Jedi and Sith. Jedi, in my opinion, has been severely lacking in terms of stuff to do and ways to develop a character. If Sith is integrated properly alongside Jedi, they would compliment each other and even create opportunities to gain merits (or whatever the fuck they're called) for promotion. If both are left for their own devices, then all we have is a standoff where one side gets to have all the fun (Jedi, most likely) and the other side gets swept into the garbage, just like it did last time.

 

I agree completely, if there's one thing that sith RP had been missing in the past it was empire wide roleplay with the jedi. Previously many branches of sith, such as marauder and juggernaut were completely lacking in RP skill and only initiated fights with jedi. If re-added sith should all be able to RP. Duels between jedi and sith are by no means a bad thing as it provides practice for each, however discourse and RP exchanges should be prioritized at least initially in interactions between sith and jedi. However, this would not exclude the potential of just having duels to duel, whether it be passive duels for power, or RP/PK duels, or duels within events/ encounters. Now, with the addition of BH there is an opposing faction to the clones. With the addition of sith there would be a direct opposition to the jedi. I agree completely that this element should be a key component of sith, if not the quintessential aim as a group to have interactions with jedi. (as it usually was in lore)

[Brooklyn]

Founders have mercy on this post. PLEASE HAVE MERCY

[Logic]

I'm not well versed in this because I only played for the beginning of sith under Joah. At first it was really really fun and I loved it, but quickly it became problematic because of Rules of Engagement. Resulted in me telling my entire battalion to not roleplay with Sith because they only ever wanted to RDM or annoy us. So I'd be all for this if it follows BH rules of engagement, like Civilian until otherwise proven. +1, I want to see what'll happen

I also have a general question...

Would this take the place of the "battalion" that founders were asking if it should be added? (can I english?)

Edited March 18, 2021 by Logic

[BlackBerry]

An additional note, "You are only allowed to be on a droid job if there is an active mission" which comes straight from the CIS operation Manual. This means that CIS are not in direct opposition to clones except for CIS ops which are few and far between. The Jedi are missing direct opposition. Sith would be a potential for RP. At worse case, post implementation it gets removed for not working. Best case, there is an active opposition to Jedi that would engage in in-depth RP and actively create more passive rp for the server as a whole.

[Moose]

+1 big chillin on Korriban

[Luther]

+1 please for the love of god bring back sith, I have been waiting so long for this, I was actually thinking of making the post myself

[Otter]

+1 I LOVE THE SITH. WE HAVE ALOT OF PLANETS LETS PUT THEM TO USE

[Clutch]

I will probably get hate for this but -1 I think currently we have too many "factions" in the server right now and I feel like having the CIS, Bounty Hunters, and Sith would be a lot for the server to keep up with, hell if we can't get our current battalions full what makes people think we can have 3 active factions?

[Snadvich]

+1, IF this is added, lets not do the whole "citizen" shit as that only brought on more problems then it should have. Jedi need a faction to contend with that doesn't show up once a day or bhops into base, dies and comes back 5 minutes later

[BlackBerry]

3 minutes ago, Clutch said:

I will probably get hate for this but -1 I think currently we have too many "factions" in the server right now and I feel like having the CIS, Bounty Hunters, and Sith would be a lot for the server to keep up with, hell if we can't get our current battalions full what makes people think we can have 3 active factions?

This is a very good point, allow me to make a counter argument however. I believe the implementation of sith would bring more members to synergy and have returning sith members join in. This would thus allow for the filling of sith ranks without taking heavily from other groups. Not only that, but sith is not mutually exclusive to other factions, just like how bounty hunters are not always on their bounty hunter job. Additionally, like previously stated CIS are only allowed on their whitelist for CIS ops and not during general down time, this thus eliminates them from being a faction in similar proportion to Jedi and BH. Not only that, but due to the fact there is pro and anti republic BH the BH could then have the ability to gain favor with the GAR by killing sith on contracts. In my opinion Sith pros outweigh cons, and the too many factions argument is thus not significant enough. Not to mention more people may play clone to oppose sith due to their presence.

[WizTheTrooper]

+1, Miss the Sith and want something engaging to play that is not Jedi in terms of heavy RP and lightsaber combat. Seems pretty good and if executed properly would attract more people to the server with Clone wars and Jedi/Sith conflicts. Overall a good idea that I support. 

[Eclipse]

-1

I don't feel much positive stuff will come from this tbh. We have bounty hunters as an anti-republic faction, and when Sith were around they were pretty much a "hee hee kill clones be a bad guy!!!!" faction. I only think Sith will work if it gets the support it needs and if actual good Sith come and play as the roles (which, going off last time, is a big request.)

Just feels like it wouldn't work tbh. Would not do hot I don't think.

 

EDIT: if you replace CIS with Sith then I will +1 it. That sounds cool to me. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Eclipse

[Maverick]

Oh my god, A suggestion i could actually get behind. +1

Sith would be a great reimplementation back into the server. I would come back just for sith. I used to help run it back then and i would do it again. Please bring it the fuck back.

[Foxey]

I'll give this a +1 just to see where it goes...

I would rather have Sith than the CIS. 

[Brooklyn]

1 minute ago, Eclipse said:

We have bounty hunters as an anti-republic faction

Bounty Hunters can work with the republic too. It's a neutral faction

[justuscloud5]

As the last leader of Sith I miss it dearly and it was my first major position on the server. I still have the docs from stih as well as the trials and everything like that. But if we were to do it I love the old republic theme sith had but idk if that would be an issue if it came back in that way. But we have to figure a way out and would have to remove CIS, which on all honesty might be a better trade off, for bounty hunters and clones as it gives bounty hunters the ability to choose between 2 factions and yes ik bounty hunters can side with CIS but that is only when they are on. Sith would give them an opportunity to choose between the 2 and gives clones and jedi a definitive bad guy they would have to fight. All honesty I was actually working with someone for a suggestion but I guess this came up first before we could get it up. +1 for the time being. 

 

Mind you before sith removal it hit a height of 32 on actively and for the month before its removal it had about 16 to 24 actively on at once so it isn't impossible for sith to be active you just need the right stepping stones and support to build it up. After joah and Jackson left I had to practically rebuild the structure of sith to function as sith and not edgy jedi which it had become. So for the love of God if it gets readded do not make it edgy jedi like joah and Jackson had made it. Make it so they are the bad guys not hehe I'm edgy and evil but I can't use force powers against jedi, but remember I'm edgy.

Edited March 18, 2021 by justuscloud5

[Bleach]

+1 Fuck yeah

[Sixta]

Remove CIS add sith 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Sixta

[Eclipse]

8 minutes ago, Foxey said:

I would rather have Sith than the CIS. 

I would support this suggestion if we did the swap. I'd replace CIS with Sith IMO. 

[BlackBerry]

8 minutes ago, Eclipse said:

-1

I don't feel much positive stuff will come from this tbh. We have bounty hunters as an anti-republic faction, and when Sith were around they were pretty much a "hee hee kill clones be a bad guy!!!!" faction. I only think Sith will work if it gets the support it needs and if actual good Sith come and play as the roles (which, going off last time, is a big request.)

Just feels like it wouldn't work tbh. Would not do hot I don't think.

As stated in my post, there would be a much heavier process of vetting to allow new sith to be added to ensure that such a situation would occur again. This would begin the sith empire foundationally as more set in RP than just borderline RMDing

[JaBaku]

im not gonna cry im not gonna *sniffs* I finally have a purpose again  +1

[Cox]

+1 I’ve heard from people who were on the server when this was a thing how much fun it was just sometimes getting jumped out of no where this is just another thing to add on to downtime

 

I also agree with sixta and eclipse if we were going to remove something for another thing 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Cox

[BlackBerry]

10 minutes ago, justuscloud5 said:

But we have to figure a way out and would have to remove CIS, which on all honesty might be a better trade off, for bounty hunters and clones as it gives bounty hunters the ability to choose between 2 factions and yes ik bounty hunters can side with CIS but that is only when they are on. Sith would give them an opportunity to choose between the 2 and gives clones and jedi a definitive bad guy they would have to fight
 

Im not entirely sure that CIS would need to be removed because CIS is basically a glorified event job, they can only get on for CIS ops. Also RP wise CIS may actually engage the sith as Sidious may want the rivalling sith empire out of the way

[Ket]

+1. I know people who only played for Sith. I personally had so much fun on Sith before some very mean document stealing events. I think Sith is also so much more interesting than Jedi when it comes to even the basics of trials. Let's bring it BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!

[Slak]

+1 pagman

Edited March 18, 2021 by Slak

[justuscloud5]

5 minutes ago, berry said:

Im not entirely sure that CIS would need to be removed because CIS is basically a glorified event job, they can only get on for CIS ops. Also RP wise CIS may actually engage the sith as Sidious may want the rivalling sith empire out of the way

Listen CIS adds no value I see game masters doing more work with CIS jobs then CIS itself. It is a redundant VIP game master faction that has a part time BCMD. All it does is take things away from the GM team; what CIS does is practically takes GMs job and has practically failed in half that regard. The whole premise with them running around part time doesn't make sense, it is a redundancy in every way. As like I said its part time a faction for events we have that in gamemasters practically.  As well Gamemasters already do their job if not better the difference is their is no AAR after the CIS comes in. They come in disguised as shock turn off HMC and die that is all they ever do and all they have ever done. It is practically a discount GM team that doesn't have quotas.

Edited March 18, 2021 by justuscloud5

[Deathtiger]

I am going to agree with other people have said and -1. The Reason I am picking this because there is already too many factions on the server and not a lot of players. There is also no temple/area to put them  

[justuscloud5]

3 minutes ago, Deathtiger said:

I am going to agree with other people have said and -1. The Reason I am picking this because there is already too many factions on the server and not a lot of players. There is also no temple/area to put them  

I'm pretty sure if this got accepted CIS would go poof and with temple and area I think they would have the map updated if this got accepted 

[Marvel]

As one of the biggest haters of Sith I am conflicted. I despised Sith back then. They broke lore in so many ways and it felt like we were a SWTOR server not a Clone Wars one. Though I can admit that I had plenty of fun flying around Endor and swooping down on some Sith and murdering them all in cold blood. It really gave people things to do when there were no events.

However people are advocating to replace CIS with the Sith. This I cannot support. CIS has a plethora of problems and isn't doing too good at all and mostly every op ends in people bitching but the same happened with Sith. Every temple or base raid people would cry. My main issue with replacing the CIS is that the CIS isn't a fully active faction. They aren't supposed to be on all the time and only come on in groups to do their little ops. This seems like it would be the opposite and it would be a faction who can be active whenever they want like before.

-1

There are way too many different groups on the server. Clones, Jedi, Naval, Guild, and CIS. The server is spread thin and I can only support this if Sith were to replace both the CIS and the Guild. Even then it's iffy for me. 

[Jack]

+1 Sith over CIS

[Mr_warmacYT]

+1 but for sith able to come back 1 other faction must go.
(sorry typed it wrong)

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Mr_warmacYT

[Dyn]

11 minutes ago, Marvel said:

As one of the biggest haters of Sith I am conflicted. I despised Sith back then. They broke lore in so many ways and it felt like we were a SWTOR server not a Clone Wars one. Though I can admit that I had plenty of fun flying around Endor and swooping down on some Sith and murdering them all in cold blood. It really gave people things to do when there were no events.

However people are advocating to replace CIS with the Sith. This I cannot support. CIS has a plethora of problems and isn't doing too good at all and mostly every op ends in people bitching but the same happened with Sith. Every temple or base raid people would cry. My main issue with replacing the CIS is that the CIS isn't a fully active faction. They aren't supposed to be on all the time and only come on in groups to do their little ops. This seems like it would be the opposite and it would be a faction who can be active whenever they want like before.

-1

There are way too many different groups on the server. Clones, Jedi, Naval, Guild, and CIS. The server is spread thin and I can only support this if Sith were to replace both the CIS and the Guild. Even then it's iffy for me. 

 

7 minutes ago, Mr_warmacYT said:

replace CIS for sith -1, i say replace BH with Sith

 

The main post isn't advocating for that though? That's what people are commenting, but the main poster even wants them to potentially be enemy/rival factions from the looks of it.

[BlackBerry]

9 minutes ago, Mr_warmacYT said:

replace CIS for sith -1, i say replace BH with Sith

 

not advocating for the replacement of CIS with sith, just want sith back. any rework between antagonist factions would be handled subsequently but is not the main point

[RealNickels]

+1 when sith was a thing it was so easy to know if you could shoot them or not. If they had a lightsaber out and it was red you could blast them. But, to use BH as an example, in that faction you have to properly ID if they are a hostile clan or if they are alone it is just a guessing game. I loved sith because it was simple.

[KillJoy]

I thought this was in off topic for a second. Goddamn +1 bigger than my ego. Yo does that mean we got our old sith ranks back 

[Mitchell]

Im sorry but Sith just don't work on the server.
They brought nothing but issues and don't fit into a server with clones that can kill them long before they reach them.
Enough people bitch and moan about BH issues but Sith would literally only cause the same things if not more so.
-1.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Mitchell

[BlackBerry]

Just now, KillJoy said:

 Yo does that mean we got our old sith ranks back 

one may only hope. but i would rather it be wiped and get sith than try and argue for ranks back and get no sith

[BlackBerry]

5 minutes ago, Mitchell said:

They brought nothing but issues and don't fit into a server with clones that can kill them long before they reach them.

From my recollection, sith were able to get absolutely beaned by snipers from long range and if clones work together to shoot the sith then there was no way for a sith to beat clones at range. In direct combat. This caused sith to actually use strategy to combat clones and work around them with other sith and not go alone. Not only that but sith readded would be meant to fight jedi more than clones.
Also Sith brought a plethora of rp situations, just because clones got tortured or killed doesn't mean that the existence of sith caused issues overall.

Edited March 18, 2021 by berry
added words

[Marvel]

7 minutes ago, berry said:

not advocating for the replacement of CIS with sith, just want sith back. any rework between antagonist factions would be handled subsequently but is not the main point

There is no chance this gets added without something being removed. 

[Dyn]

6 minutes ago, Mitchell said:

Enough people bitch and moan about BH issues but Sith would literally only cause the same things if not more so.
-1.

Most of the time, the issues with BH seems more like you can't do anything about them until they have the perfect jump on you. Even if you know what they're going to do, you can't ever make the first strike. Sith on the other hand have their glowing red blades (which might mean jedi who need to use them would have to stop or risk themselves being suspicious).

[Ratio]

I'd agree to this if I essentially had a written guarantee that BH wouldn't be touched by this change. @berryI know you're not advocating for the removal of it but I've been told before by Founders that BH would need to be removed for Sith to work. Call me bias all you want, but the reason BH gets so much shit a lot of the time is because people are often too lazy to RP with them. When you stand for like a half-hour outside of the gate asking for a base pass only for someone to "[OC] No. :)" you, I can't really blame them for wanting to go hostile against the Republic, or at the very least dread the idea of working for them.

Myself, Sinister, Scarecrow, and everyone in-between had worked to make sure that BH wasn't in a position where it was at risk because people flip-flop on removing factions so much that it's honestly just distasteful. This *did* happen to Sith, but we've all managed to heal from it and the server has changed massively -- be it for better or worse.

In a perfect world, yes, I'd love to be a BH that had the option of choosing to ally himself with both the Reps and a Darkside cult (because let's face it, no matter how you twist it, Sith in CW era is dumb). It would highlight the neutrality aspect that BH is supposed to have, however it's not seen as a possibility by the server's leadership so until I get 100% confirmation that nothing will happen to BH (or a Founder pops in and tells me that they don't have these beliefs), I am giving to give a -1.

[Ratio]

4 minutes ago, CastleClone said:

Most of the time, the issues with BH seems more like you can't do anything about them until they have the perfect jump on you.

This argument from Republic players annoys me the most and makes me scream into my pillow at night.

Yeah... that's how BH works. They stalk you and use underhanded tactics to take out targets. Welcome to being a trooper in Star Wars. You don't win 100% of the time and sometimes you're just cannon fodder. You're obviously not here to roleplay on a roleplay server, just here to shoot shit.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Ratio
Added observation

[Mitchell]

4 minutes ago, CastleClone said:

Most of the time, the issues with BH seems more like you can't do anything about them until they have the perfect jump on you.

This is literally what Sith did...
They'd just say their civies, and you can't do anything to them, then they 2 hit you with a saber or shadow strike you if you where a sith assassin.
 

[Dennis]

so let’s be honest and take a more in-depth look at what the server has to fill this chart for true balance to every aspect on the server. Starting from left to right.

 

Jedi, clone, naval are the ones fillin the lawful side in all three aspects. 

Bounty hunter fits all three of the middle. 

Game masters and CIS fit the chaotic right side.

I have personally as dooku tried to see about adding sith back in a sudo way, yet every time is was mentioned “we want more rp” and then yet when attempting to rp most people fail to actually do so which is quite ironic. The sith faction wouldn’t replace the cis as it’s not the role it’s fitting. It would have to replace BH which in all honesty has really picked up its whole look and improved since it was first out into place. I don’t see this a needed change to help the community or the server.

In reality  to balance it people would have to chose between the Jedi order and sith. This would split the Jedi order and only hurts its dwindling player base. This would take people off of clone jobs or dwindling it’s already struggling player base. People can have clone, naval, Jedi, and bounty hunter, CIS, and possibly a senator. That is 6 jobs someone could have at once. That’s a lot to juggle and keep track of and stay active on all jobs. In reality the faction will only harm the server currently and really doesn’t fit with the current meta of the server and its attitude. People already cry about dying to droids or a bounty hunter I can’t imagine the shit show sith would be. So -1 this wouldn’t help the server as sith would have to replace a full time faction as that is what it is. 

[Dyn]

Just now, Ratio said:

This argument from Republic players annoys me the most and makes me scream into my pillow at night.

Yeah... that's how BH works. They stalk you and use underhanded tactics to take out targets. Welcome to being a trooper in Star Wars. You don't win 100% of the time and sometimes you're just cannon fodder.

I'm also a BH player. I'm not saying I agree with the argument, but I'm saying what most of them boil down to. People being salty (even myself at times) over getting gatted and then nothing happening even if the BH who did it gets caught. Things like aliases being so available that only a handful will actually be able to see past them. The bounty hunter coming back every 5 mins after NLR expires with a slightly changed name to do the exact same thing over and over again throughout a night.

[Agent_Dagger]

-1 | I agree with everyone else. Too many factions, and I rather deal with the CIS than the Sith.

[BlackBerry]

3 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Game masters and CIS fit the chaotic right side.

This may be true but its hard to have them cover that side when CIS are only allowed activity during events/ops and game masters can have encounters and what not but they arent constant/ available for rp other than usually what is shoot em ups. 

5 minutes ago, Dennis said:

 yet every time is was mentioned “we want more rp” and then yet when attempting to rp most people fail to actually do so which is quite ironic. The sith faction wouldn’t replace the cis as it’s not the role it’s fitting. It would have to replace BH which in all honesty has really picked up its whole look and improved since it was first out into place. I don’t see this a needed change to help the community or the server.

You're correct, I don't think it is a needed/required change to the server. However, I think it would be beneficial for the sake of rp and for the sake of actually giving Jedi a faction to interact with more intensity. 

8 minutes ago, Dennis said:

In reality  to balance it people would have to chose between the Jedi order and sith. This would split the Jedi order and only hurts its dwindling player base. This would take people off of clone jobs or dwindling it’s already struggling player base. People can have clone, naval, Jedi, and bounty hunter, CIS, and possibly a senator. That is 6 jobs someone could have at once. That’s a lot to juggle and keep track of and stay active on all jobs. In reality the faction will only harm the server currently 

People don't necessarily need to have all those jobs though, and if the aim of the current server is to help people play how they want to play this allows another option for people to play. Not to mention that the implementation of sith wouldnt directly hurt the player base of clone because 1) clones already have the progress they have and most likely wouldnt want to lose it 2) not all people want to play force users 3) adding sith could bring back old players who played specifically for sith

11 minutes ago, Dennis said:

People already cry about dying to droids or a bounty hunter I can’t imagine the shit show sith would be. So -1 this wouldn’t help the server as sith would have to replace a full time faction as that is what it is. 

People can get mad about dying but at the end of the day clones dont always win. Sith would be less focused on just killing anyways, so the ROE and rules for rp and leaving planet would stricter than in the past and for BH. Also if it did replace CIS, thats not a full time faction.

[Sinister]

I left Sith pretty early to work on MilitaryRP when it first came out, so I didn't get to fully experience the "degredation" phase. While I was Sith with Joah, Jackson, Kitty, and Tyzen I had the most fun I've ever had on the server. 

 

Due to the fact that I, like many other players, have been here since the beginning, I have reached the top rank or near it in every full time-faction, with at least 4 months of active playtime within each category (Naval, Jedi, Clone, BH, Senate, Sith). Because of this, I have very little interest in working my way up in those factions yet again. Just based on this alone, it seems like it would be great to re-add sith for people like me. Even though it would be a re-addition it's something "new" to do, and would likely pan out very differently than it's original addition to the server. 

 

However, I have strong doubts that the Sith Faction could be successful in the current state of the server, so I'm going to have to -1. Everyone else pretty much explained my thoughts. In my opinion, adding Sith now would just de-stablize the Roleplay dynamic that High Command works to control.

 

I think it would be great for a small group of dark-side force users that could operate in a similar function to the CIS faction. Dooku could even oversee them so we don't have to add another applicable leadership role. I don't know if this would work out either, but I think it's a better alternative to the full addition of Sith.

[Matt-Matthos]

3 hours ago, Foxey said:

I'll give this a +1 just to see where it goes...

I would rather have Sith than the CIS. 

What Foxey said. And if it was added make sure everything would be complete upon release of the faction so its not just dead upon arrival. And that its rules should be decided by various people in the community like Palpy, Jedi HC and High Staff and it would have competent leaders as well.

[BlackBerry]

Just now, Matt-Matthos said:

 And that its rules should be decided by various people in the community like Palpy, Jedi HC and High Staff and it would have competent leaders as well.

Yes.

[Turtle]

+1 I WANT TO SO I CAN FORCE ABSORB BATTLE WITH CLOUD

[CruorFlumine]

I loved sith. No lies there, but it just wouldnt work with how we do things now, especially since mustafar is going bye bye

-1 sadly

[Aeon]

-1

[Comics]

-1, adding new factions has not been shown to work. This will flop, we all know it will, but you people just want a new faction to "shake it up".
I appreciate the love that people have for Sith but it just hasn't worked and will be another faction that'll fall over and die 3 weeks after release

This will end in the removal of a current faction and is just gonna die like all the others. We need to fix what we've got before we start throwing more shit at the stained wall we've created.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Comics

[BlackBerry]

2 minutes ago, Guac said:

lmao what 

I dont think that sith is a change that is essential for the server. I think it would be greatly beneficial to rp but it isnt fundamental or required for the server to continue.

[BlackBerry]

1 minute ago, Comics said:

-1, adding new factions has not been shown to work. This will flop, we all know it will, but you people just want a new faction to "shake it up".

The reason I want sith back is to inspire RP between Jedi and Sith. More RP can be utilized in relation to the force than lifting rocks. Jedi dont really have much to do other than be shields during events. Sith would inspire meaningful interactions and would be more than "shaking it up" and they would be better for RP than an event job as they could be passive.

[Comics]

1 minute ago, berry said:

The reason I want sith back is to inspire RP between Jedi and Sith. More RP can be utilized in relation to the force than lifting rocks. Jedi dont really have much to do other than be shields during events. Sith would inspire meaningful interactions and would be more than "shaking it up" and they would be better for RP than an event job as they could be passive.

The "RP" between Sith and Republic does not work. 1 side will always be hyper aggressive to the other. Rp will not be created it will become a KOS system just like last time.
We can all hope for some utopian system where everyone gets along but I promise you people are gonna automatically be aggressive to Sith no matter what the rules say.

It took BH ages to not be harrassed 24/7 and their RP is currently pretty limited. I can't see sith getting along with RP let alone creating much actual RP.

[Finn]

Tbh I loved Sith as an idea, but at the time people (both Sith and non Sith) were trash at RP. But it brings more to the server than CIS does (It's not even a real faction, you're only on during Ops, and Ops are bad, unoriginal, and take less thought than an Among Us entertainment). 

Big +1

[Alien]

+1 sith rp best rp

[Shake]

-1 i had a lot fun as sith as the XO in Honor guard but just let it go we have 2 other factions 

[Fenrir]

3 hours ago, Ratio said:

In a perfect world, yes, I'd love to be a BH that had the option of choosing to ally himself with both the Reps and a Darkside cult (because let's face it, no matter how you twist it, Sith in CW era is dumb). It would highlight the neutrality aspect that BH is supposed to have, however it's not seen as a possibility by the server's leadership so until I get 100% confirmation that nothing will happen to BH (or a Founder pops in and tells me that they don't have these beliefs), I am giving to give a -1.

Ratio put it perfectly in all his comments here. I'm in the same position. -1

[Diplo]

+1

[Daytona211]

5 hours ago, Sixta said:

Remove CIS add sith +1

I disagree. (I took away the react :)  )

I could write a long detailed post that no one would read but i'd rather sum it up so people read my point.
Sith are at there core a problem they cause more issues than they solve and off peak hours have as much to do as jedi (meditate, spar, etc).

We do not have the space on our current map for a sith temple (unless it's made out of props on an existing planet).

It makes little to no sense from a lore perspective (yes there can be random rouge jedi / dark side wielders but there was no "sith empire" / "sith collective" and if there was Palpatine would have wiped them out as a rival as he did with Maul and Savage). 

There are changes planned to come to CIS to make it less bad. 

[ScarZ]

+1 And if we have to decide to remove a faction I would have to say CIS.

[BlackBerry]

24 minutes ago, Daytona211 said:

I disagree. (I took away the react :)  )

I could write a long detailed post that no one would read but i'd rather sum it up so people read my point.
Sith are at there core a problem they cause more issues than they solve and off peak hours have as much to do as jedi (meditate, spar, etc).

We do not have the space on our current map for a sith temple (unless it's made out of props on an existing planet).

It makes little to no sense from a lore perspective (yes there can be random rouge jedi / dark side wielders but there was no "sith empire" and if there was Palpatine would have wiped them out as a rival as he did with Maul and Savage). 

There are changes planned to come to CIS to make it less bad. 

My original point was not about removing any faction, CIS or otherwise. And I proposed the planet of mustafar as it was planned on being removed. Also, if you read the lore section of my post you’ll see that there were other groups of dark side users similar to sith empires but on a smaller scale (like the faction i’m proposing). Not only that, but off peak hours, if both sith and jedi are on then it’s not that neither have nothing to do. With the addition of sith, both factions would have rp and duels to challenge each other with, instead of meditating.

Edited March 19, 2021 by berry
fixed wording

[Ori-nament]

Fat +1 Back when Sith were a thing I got VIP mainly for Sith. It was fun to try and grind and get better at over time. As long as it is implemented better and has better leadership, I think it can work out again. I think the suggestion to remove the civilian models was a good idea

[Hanz]

1 hour ago, Comics said:

-1, adding new factions has not been shown to work. This will flop, we all know it will, but you people just want a new faction to "shake it up".
I appreciate the love that people have for Sith but it just hasn't worked and will be another faction that'll fall over and die 3 weeks after release

This will end in the removal of a current faction and is just gonna die like all the others. We need to fix what we've got before we start throwing more shit at the stained wall we've created.

-1 This ^

[Brooklyn]

5 hours ago, Mitchell said:

This is literally what Sith did...
They'd just say their civies, and you can't do anything to them, then they 2 hit you with a saber or shadow strike you if you where a sith assassin.
 

in the perfect world. Sith would have to switch to their SITH models before attacking. Unfortunately this wasn't followed all the time

[Marvel]

5 hours ago, Mitchell said:

This is literally what Sith did...
They'd just say their civies, and you can't do anything to them, then they 2 hit you with a saber or shadow strike you if you where a sith assassin.
 

Ah you forgot a few more things

Force leap around the map until they were eventually taken down after a pointless 30 minute NASCAR race because for some reason they only new how to take left turns and hiding in the lake on Endor because they were all secretly clones of Jar Jar Binks anways

[Maddoxx]

phat -1

 

This won't fit with our active player base due to lack of numbers unless we remove some factions and I think the server has a good balance right now so lets not rock the boat.  

[Brace]

The only way I see this being a possible solution is to remove either CIS or BH and replace it with sith

[Chumbus]

i think you would need to remove both cis and bh honestly

[Dennis]

Alright since people don't want to use their brains and think im going to post a bit of a player break down. 

ON average at any given time we have about 75 people on the server (note this isn't primetime or anything this is at all times) also this is very rough math

lets take our 75 and instantly remove 10 AFK CLONES (tbh this is on the low side) this gets us to 65 players

65 players and lets say an AVERAGE of roughly 5 Bounty hunters on at one time. now we have 60 lets also take out two naval so 58 people left

We now have 58 people to split between 8 battalions and 4 SOBDE squads. Each of these lets say shoots for 3 active players at one time. Lets half our 58 for clone and jedi

Thats 29 clones and 29 Jedi. However, normally there aren't that many jedi to lets bring it to 40 clones and 18 jedi (still keeping our number of 58)

40 clones into 8 battalions and 4 squads (12 in total) gets us a total of 3.33 repeating so 3 clones per battalion / squad. with 18 jedi, and about 5-8 of them AFK at any given moment.

So that now leaves us at OUR CURRENT TIME AND FACTION COUNT, with the bare minimum of what a battalion should shoot for. Adding another FULL TIME FACTION will only lower the player count on everything. 

The argument of "people will come back for sith" who dude? can you name me 10 people who will come back and ONLY main sith? its not possible. 

Simply put we have what it takes now to be an active and fun server, we just need to fix what we have currently and adjust it to our needs than rather "rEmOvE ThIs Or ADd tHiS"

 looking like  my man lets reflect internally before trying to out whole factions who haven't even been given a chance to succeed 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Dennis
forgot something

[Brooklyn]

39 minutes ago, Dennis said:

before trying to out whole factions who haven't even been given a chance to succeed 

Didn't you wanna swap CIS for Sith though?

[Zensras]

-1

Two reasons:
- 1) We get so many damn suggestions to add a faction when we don't need to add any.   We barely have the pop to support what we have at the moment.
- 2) Sith have caused so many damn issues on the server.   The same could be say about the other way around,  but Sith intentionally harassing clones and not giving a shit when it came to RP ruined the faction for many.  

 

IF IT EVER COMES BACK,  It needs a fucking leadership that will actually do something.   

[Bacta]

I would much rather have this conversation in a later time for the server when we get more players around the summer time, with all the shit happening (weapons, updated map, server box) i think we should wait to discuss it when all of these happen. I dont think right now is a good time to add the sith.

[Jovanovic]

honestly just replace CIS with sith bruh, im fine with OP sith as long as numbers are low. +1

[Logic]

On 3/19/2021 at 10:05 PM, Brooklyn said:

Didn't you wanna swap CIS for Sith though?

He wanted some Dark Force User Slots instead of B1 commander

[Metro]

-1 - Lore Breaking and Awful Faction reference SOMEONE HAD TO DO IT v1-5

[BigZach]

+1 I think sith would work better as a player faction than CIS. Especially when you consider player to player interaction between the different factions. Sith was full of the best RP I've ever had on the server and all the close to RDM behaviour I ever saw was literally just SOBDE.

[BigZach]

On 3/19/2021 at 4:49 AM, Chumbus said:

i think you would need to remove both cis and bh honestly

Nah jus CIS, I think the BH and Sith interaction would be way too valuable.

[Bbstine]

Unfortunately, this is going to be denied. We can look at this in the future but currently this is not the direction where we want to go with the community. If you have any questions feel free to contact me on Discord, here on the forums, or on Teamspeak!

 

This suggestion has been made 3 times and regarding rules with server suggestions; to make another "Add Sith" suggestion you will need to contact a member of the Management Team for approval to post.

[Bbstine]

Unfortunately, this suggestion has been DENIED.

If the same suggestion is submitted again within 60 DAYS of this post it will be automatically denied.

// LOCKED
// MOVED TO [CW] SERVER SUGGESTIONS - DENIED
 

Quote

Denial reasons:
(These are some reasons that your suggestion might get denied for.)

• Not providing sufficient information.
  Ex: Just linking the workshop and not giving us the actual model path you want to use.
• The addon's size is way too big compared to its content(s).
  Ex: 35MB for one model.
• Majority negative feedback.
• Bad optimization and/or causes bad performance on the server.
• Having multiple suggestions within one thread.
• Bothering leadership/development team regarding a suggestion.
• Suggesting a previously denied suggestion within 60 days of denial.