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The Return of Foxtrot


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Head Admin

Name: Kaiser 

RP Rank: 212th BCMD


Suggestion: Bring back Foxtrot to 212th Attack Battalion as a 3rd subunit

Implementation: For those of you looking to instantly -1 this suggestion based on negative experiences, I implore you to read the entire thing. After talks with High Staff/Development, the return of this squad is very possible if done correctly. There is no official rule preventing the addition of a 3rd subunit, and no rule on removing the whitelists suggested. This will be a major shift for the 212th as a whole, and as a battalion that has had the honor of success in the past year, I believe we’re the perfect candidates to test run an additional group. We would be removing 4 whitelists to make room for Gregor and the 3 additional Foxtrot members. 

In practical terms, we would work with former Foxtrot members and current SOBDE members that have already stepped forward to offer assistance with dupes and tryouts. With myself overseeing the first runs, we would invite SOBDE members to watch how we do tryouts which would affirm that RC standards would be met. 

Additionally, when 212th previously had Foxtrot, we held a very high standard of RP and have every intention to bring it back. SOBDE has a very high standard of RP as well, which gives us a great example to learn from. In turn, with one of our subunits acting more seriously, this will 100% rub off on our other subunits, in turn rubbing off on the battalion, in turn rubbing off on the server. 

Lore: Foxtrot Group was a commando squad led by CC-5576-39 Captain Gregor serving under Marshal Commander Cody and General Obi-Wan Kenobi. While it operated under the Special Operations Brigade, it was attached to the 212th Attack Battalion. Captain Gregor has been depicted multiple times in Star Wars media, giving merit to Foxtrot having the ability to build lore on Synergy. 

Workshop Content if applicable: Needs development

If you are asking to add or change a job, fill out the following if not, leave it out.


Add or Change: Remove
(Any job modification requires all this information)

Job: 2ndAC Commander Barlex, 212th Officer, Ghost Company Heavy Trooper, Ghost Company Support Trooper

Slots: N/A

Description: N/A

Model: N/A

Weapons: N/A


_______________________________________________________________


Add or Change: Add

Job: Foxtrot Lead Gregor

Slots: 1

Description: Foxtrot Group Lead

Model: models/jayarr/commando/foxtrot/gregor.mdl

Weapons: cc2018_dc15p, rw_sw_dc17m, rw_sw_dc17m_launcher, rw_sw_dc17m_shotgun, rw_sw_dc17m_sniper

___________________________________________________________________

Add or Change: Add

Job: Foxtrot RC EOD

Slots: 1 

Description: Foxtrot Group EOD

Model:models/jayarr/commando/foxtrot/eod.mdl

Weapons: cc2018_dc15p, rw_sw_dc17m, rw_sw_dc17m_launcher (ability to drop armor)

___________________________________________________________________

Add or Change: Add

Job: Foxtrot RC MED

Slots: 1

Description: Foxtrot Group Medic

Model: models/jayarr/commando/foxtrot/tech.mdl

Weapons: cc2018_dc15p, rw_sw_dc17m, rw_sw_dc17m_shotgun, weapon_bactakit, rw_sw_nade_bacta (3), darky_syringe (3) 

____________________________________________________________________

Add or Change: Add

Job: Foxtrot RC ARF

Slots: 1

Description: Foxtrot Group Sniper

Model: models/jayarr/commando/foxtrot/mark.mdl

Weapons: cc2018_dc15p, rw_sw_dc17m, rw_sw_dc17m_sniper

_____________________________________________________________________

Other: This is the meat and potatoes of this suggestion. After talks from High Staff/developers, members of current SOBDE, and former Foxtrot members, I am 100% confident 212th can bring back this unit and support it in the right way. To start with the unit, we would like to include SOBDE in the initial process in setting up the tryouts. We want to make sure that the standard for RC squads is being held up overall and our Foxtrot members are of a higher caliber than any other trooper in 212th. 

The past 3 Barlex’s did NOT like being on the actual job, and would often prefer to sit on 2ndAC SUP if they have their training due to the low benefits of the Barlex whitelist. The 212th Officer whitelist isn’t used at all. The GC whitelists we would remove would change GC to a strictly stealth recon unit rather than Spec Ops. We would open up more 212th GC ARF spots to compensate along with 1 GC ARC slot. 

I look forward to answering any questions people have in the comments, and reassuring anyone with doubts that we can handle this. Even with myself only being on the server for a year, I know the server has changed significantly. Now is the time to bring back this once successful unit to the former glory of Foxtrot. 
 

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As current GCC and Maj within the 212th I massively +1 this.

I have always felt something is missing from 212th and i believe that foxtrot will bridge that gap. Foxtrot will be the best addition to 212th and really push us in the right direction. I played on the server when Foxtrot was there and it was truly an amazing sub unit. Not only will this add more to 212th but also to the rest of the server.

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Very easy +1, something that is not utilized well in game and has so much potential can be moved to a very good battalion which is very active and have good plans for foxtrot.

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+1
 

I had to google what even Foxtrot was when I first heard of this. I truly believe that 212th has the ideas and capabilities that can make this awesome group thrive. I believe that 212th will bring this group to the same level as any RC group and make it something more than just a subunit

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+1 HUGE +1 I was 212th back when we had foxtrot in 212th and loved having them around I wanted to be one but never got arround to it before SOBDE took them. BRING BACK FOXTROT

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+1 I dont see why not

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+1 Let 212th cook

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+1 this would change 212th for the better... We are the one of most active battalion in the server we also have almost every slot in every branch/subunit full we have been working hard as a battalion and foxtrot is the last step for 212th for us to be complete as a battalion. WE WANT CHANGE!

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Changing to a -1 stop asking people to advert for you its getting annoying

Edited by Drip

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+1

What started as a joke between Jagger and Joah,   Foxtroxt was THE popular thing in 212th and under the right leadership had some of the god-tier RP on the server when we had it.   I have already spoken to Kaiser about his plans and he's planning on bringing back the standard they were back then which was VERY critical.  

 

It has the interest to survive so this isn't going to be "oh look another thing to die".   We're likely going to see people coming back and bringing population to the server.

 

Edited by Zensras

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Huge +1 when i first joined 212th a few years ago I looked up to foxtrot. The members had superior rp skills which made my time amazing in 212th. Unfortunately they were removed before i could join. But i feel like if they were added then i might get a second chance to rejoin the server and eventually join them. 

Edited by Gibby
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5 minutes ago, Ccmonty said:

-1 You guys don't need a 3rd sub unit. GM didn't get to keep Devil Dogs when SO was added back. Also plugging a server suggestion in TS is cringe and I also don't think its allowed

Just saw the second part. I did NOT do this, and did NOT tell the person who isn't even in 212th to do that either. While we appreciate the support, it's not something any of us requested in any regard. 

I do appreciate your feedback and would love to open up discussion about why a third subunit didn't succeed before.

Edited by KaiserNeiner
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+1

In my eyes, I rather we use stuff that goes unused.

 

Some stuff can be pointless or not make sense. IMO, I've always been somewhat against GC having heavies/support since they are RECON STEALTH UNIT.

Trading out slots for a unused unit will be a fair trade. 

In my eyes, having a elite unit will do more than help 212th but help the server as a whole. Promoting more SOBDE RP as well as more tryouts for SOBDE to manage! I love Battalion Relationships! ❤️ 

 

 

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I was poor man's Foxtrot once


+1

Also @CcmontyMarvel has stated plenty of times its not against the server rules to ping for a suggestion

Edited by Mystic
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On 9/21/2023 at 1:29 AM, Ccmonty said:

Also plugging a server suggestion in TS is cringe and I also don't think its allowed

I did this on my own as this is something that has been in the works for a while in terms of suggesting it. I did this on my own, just wanna make clear that no 212th have asked me to do this. As for not being allowed, this has been done multiple times, even to the point with an @ everyone multiple times from myself and nothing has been mentioned regarding that, nor is it in the suggestion guidelines/rules. 

Edited by Rohan
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As part of the last official 212th Foxtrot squad on the server I’ve missed it every day since it was removed from 212th and never used. With how active the currently battalion is and how dedicated our officer corp is to the server as a whole, I’m extremely confident this will breathe more life into not just 212th but the server as a whole, especially for veterans. bring it back for sure!
 huge +1

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+1 
This suggestion is huge, not just for 212th but the server. Firstly, this has the dual effect of focusing GC into a more lore accurate and specialized subunit instead of "the main battalion but with cooler armor" AND increasing cooperation and interaction between SOBDE and the rest of the server. By making this a joint venture, and holding all applicants to RC standards, this is a fantastic way for SOBDE to rub their roleplay prowess and professionalism on the rest of the server. If Foxtrot gets added it will be held to an incredibly high standard in behavior, roleplay, and general professionalism. This being the case, it will have a trickle down effect of promoting better roleplay and behavior in all of 212th. This in of itself has the potential to really positively impact the server.

Secondly, if this suggestion passes I believe it will have a huge positive influence on server moral. For a long time there has been an attitude of "i cant suggest anything i want for my battalion because it wont pass anyways". This suggestion was a long time in the making and is the result of close cooperation between 212th HC and several other battalions. If it passes, it will both prove that 1. If your suggestion is well thought out and you approach the community instead of just springing a suggestion on us it has a real chance of passing. 2. That synergy is capable of growing out of the "-1 i dont want you to have cool thing because i dont like that you want cool thing".

I really believe this will both inspire battalions to come up with their own cool suggestions to help improve player experience within their battalions and cooperate with the rest of the server while doing so. It would be really cool to see us come together as a community to show our support for cool new stuff for every battalion/the server as a whole instead of that gremlin mindset of "if my battalion doesnt get a cool thing yours cant have one either".

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9 minutes ago, Luther said:

+1 I just hope that the dev team is ready for every battalion on the server to put up a suggestion for a 3rd sub unit; because if 1 battalion gets a 3rd, everyone is going to want a 3rd.

You guys do realize that they are choosing to remove 2ndAC and add Foxtrot. 

Edited by Arroyo
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1 minute ago, Arroyo said:

You guys do realize that they are choosing to remove 2ndAC and add Foxtrot. 

theyre only removing Barlex lmfao. They would still have their 2ndAC jobs

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Foxtrot Group will never return. It isn't coming back to SOBDE. It isn't going to 212th. It's never coming back. Give up on your dreams. -1

 

 

 

Actually though I don't understand the need for a third sub unit in your battalion, you already got two -1

Edit: With extra info it would be 4? no no no -1

Edited by Aust
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3 minutes ago, Mystic said:

theyre only removing Barlex lmfao. They would still have their 2ndAC jobs

My understanding is the position will remain but the job will be removed.   Nobody really has used it as past several barlex have been either med or sup.  

This is asking our unused jobs to be removed for space for foxtrot.  
 

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57 minutes ago, Mystic said:

I was poor man's Foxtrot once


+1

Also @CcmontyMarvel has stated plenty of times its not against the server rules to ping for a suggestion

Changing my mind. 

-1. bad idea having 3 sub units. even if youre built different. i dont want 212th RP

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5 minutes ago, Joe900000 said:

-1  I don't think it would be a good idea. It would be taking members from SOBDE. And everyone would be going to 212th.

Our intentions are not to take people from SOBDE as Foxtrot has not been utilized in SOBDE for a long time. We would be creating opportunities in 212th, not taking them away from anyone. 

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1 hour ago, KaiserNeiner said:

In practical terms, we would work with former Foxtrot members and current SOBDE members that have already stepped forward to offer assistance with dupes and tryouts.

Uhh from what I heard the support and stepping up of SOBDE was NEVER talked about, I have talked to Rizzo about this and have been told that he did not agree with you on this, volunteering SOBDE, WITHOUT THE AGREEMENT OF SOBDE is an insane move. I was talking to you about this, and considering you did not even get the backing of RC which Foxtrot is a part of, is very stupid.

I would also like to bring up their would 4 technical sub units in 212th now, (mine as well remove all the other batts) the 4 (technical) sub units I am talking about is Parjai, 2ndAC, Ghost Company, and then Foxtrot.

SOBDE already has problems filling ourselves as it is, we don't need more people taking away from us.

-1

Edited by Edgar
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Gonna start this off first -1 my reasons

1. 212th as of now through non and real subunits there's GC, 2ndAC, Parjai, Red squad and now foxtrot so you all have EVERYTHING thus making it so no one would ever need to leave for a battalion for a minor reason o.

2. Foxtrot Group will never return. It isn't coming back to SOBDE. It isn't going to 212th. It's never coming back. Give up on your dreams. This is true very true

3. RC are in SOBDE for the purpose of standardization having foxtrot in a different section could cause problems with standardizations through easier tryouts or different standards among squads

4. 
Job: Foxtrot RC MED and Job: Foxtrot RC ARF. If your trying to make this an RC squad and follow what it was then these should respecivly be RC MDMK and Tech so already going against standardization.

5. 

1 hour ago, KaiserNeiner said:

After talks from High Staff/developers, members of current SOBDE

From what I have heard members of SOBDE that have a say in this disagreed with this and thus a BIG problem if your overstepping people you need to talk to about whether or not this is good

6. SOBDE already has problems filling up squad members with our current standards and thus I believe that juggling that along side having 212th do their own things will cause a lower standard for the squad

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2 minutes ago, Edgar said:

Uhh from what I heard the support and stepping up of SOBDE was NEVER talked about, I have talked to Rizzo about this and have been told that he did not agree with you on this, volunteering SOBDE, WITHOUT THE AGREEMENT OF SOBDE is an insane move. I was talking to you about this, and considering you did not even get the backing of RC which Foxtrot is a part of, is very stupid.

I would also like to bring up their would 4 technical sub units in 212th now, (mine as well remove all the other batts) the 4 (technical) sub units I am talking about is Parjai, 2ndAC, Ghost Company, and then Foxtrot.

SOBDE already has problems filling ourselves as it is, we don't need more people taking away from us.

-1

You are correct, Rizzo and I are not on the same page about this. However I HAVE spoken to SOBDE members that ARE on board with Foxtrot returning, and have offered help in creating dupes and helping with tryouts to ensure that the standards for an RC unit are met. 

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2 minutes ago, KaiserNeiner said:

You are correct, Rizzo and I are not on the same page about this. However I HAVE spoken to SOBDE members that ARE on board with Foxtrot returning, and have offered help in creating dupes and helping with tryouts to ensure that the standards for an RC unit are met. 

Who. Cause everyone in SOBDE has made it explicitly clear that THEY DO NOT WANT THIS.

Edited by Bleach
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2 minutes ago, KaiserNeiner said:

You are correct, Rizzo and I are not on the same page about this. However I HAVE spoken to SOBDE members that ARE on board with Foxtrot returning, and have offered help in creating dupes and helping with tryouts to ensure that the standards for an RC unit are met. 

So you got an NCOs opinion on something this big?

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5 minutes ago, Xiao said:

Gonna start this off first -1 my reasons

1. 212th as of now through non and real subunits there's GC, 2ndAC, Parjai, Red squad and now foxtrot so you all have EVERYTHING thus making it so no one would ever need to leave for a battalion for a minor reason o.

2. Foxtrot Group will never return. It isn't coming back to SOBDE. It isn't going to 212th. It's never coming back. Give up on your dreams. This is true very true

3. RC are in SOBDE for the purpose of standardization having foxtrot in a different section could cause problems with standardizations through easier tryouts or different standards among squads

4. 
Job: Foxtrot RC MED and Job: Foxtrot RC ARF. If your trying to make this an RC squad and follow what it was then these should respecivly be RC MDMK and Tech so already going against standardization.

5. 

From what I have heard members of SOBDE that have a say in this disagreed with this and thus a BIG problem if your overstepping people you need to talk to about whether or not this is good

6. SOBDE already has problems filling up squad members with our current standards and thus I believe that juggling that along side having 212th do their own things will cause a lower standard for the squad

to clarify on your first point: 
Parjai is 2ndAC.  Not a separate thing.   It's considered 2ndACOs. 
Red Squadron is dead.   Has been for a while.   

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No agreement was reached with SOBDE. We felt that in the current state of the server, and the struggles we have faced filling our own positions, this would hurt us and the server tremendously. It can take us weeks to fill just one position, let alone fill up an entire squad due to the length and difficulty of our tryouts.

We spoke on this and I just cant trust that the standards of one battalion be upheld in another. Despite us speaking on this and disagreeing, this was still made and made to seem like you had our support. You did not. These members who are on board do not speak for us, let alone have the authority to leak our tryouts to help create tryouts for Foxtrot. If they did help and leak our tryouts, they would be blacklisted and removed.

As BCMD I have to think about what is best for my battalion, but when making my decision I had the well being of the whole server in mind. a 3 sub unit battalion would cause tons of problems for the server. A new server member would look at all the other battalions before making their decision, and of course would choose the biggest battalion and the one with the most opportunities within it. This would severely damage the recruitment of other battalions no doubt.

Let me be clear, this was made without SOBDE support.


-1


 

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1 minute ago, Xiao said:

Gonna start this off first -1 my reasons

1. 212th as of now through non and real subunits there's GC, 2ndAC, Parjai, Red squad and now foxtrot so you all have EVERYTHING thus making it so no one would ever need to leave for a battalion for a minor reason o.

2. Foxtrot Group will never return. It isn't coming back to SOBDE. It isn't going to 212th. It's never coming back. Give up on your dreams. This is true very true

3. RC are in SOBDE for the purpose of standardization having foxtrot in a different section could cause problems with standardizations through easier tryouts or different standards among squads

4. 
Job: Foxtrot RC MED and Job: Foxtrot RC ARF. If your trying to make this an RC squad and follow what it was then these should respecivly be RC MDMK and Tech so already going against standardization.

5. 

From what I have heard members of SOBDE that have a say in this disagreed with this and thus a BIG problem if your overstepping people you need to talk to about whether or not this is good

6. SOBDE already has problems filling up squad members with our current standards and thus I believe that juggling that along side having 212th do their own things will cause a lower standard for the squad

Wassup my guy. Wanted to critique a few things you've said here.

1. Red Squad isn't a thing anymore, and hasn't been for some time. People still use the RS lore names, but that's not a battalion sanctioned system, and we don't police the names our members want to use. Parjai is also not a subunit, it's what we call 2ndAC Officers. 

2.  I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, but it seems like some sort of inside joke of SOBDE. If it is, then it's very telling about your thoughts on Foxtrot in general.

3. While the original intention may have been standardization, the original intention was also to have Grey RC, which you clearly don't have. The battalion and server have changed, and there's no legitimate reason for SOBDE to hoard subunit that you guys have admitted publicly and privately you have no intention of using.

4. The naming convention was supposed to keep in line with the regiments, which is admittedly confusing. the ARF job is intended to fill the marksman role, and we're ok to keep the marksmen name if need be.

5. So, to set the record straight, we approached Rizzo well before we even talked to our own officers. We wanted him, and SOBDE as a whole, to work with us to make sure the subunit was the same quality as SOBDE. His response was to say that the only way to make this suggestion work would be to have SOBDE have full control over the subunit, and essentially be a squad that just is outreached to 212th. He wouldn't entertain any other offer.  

This suggestion isn't overstepping, considering high staff gave us the go ahead to make this suggestion. 

6. SOBDE has never had a hard time filling squads when they advertise and are active. Having been your Regimental previously, I have firsthand knowledge on how you guys operate, both successfully and not so successfully, so I can say this some some confidence that having Foxtrot in 212th will not hinder you in any way. I can also say this considering we already had Foxtrot for over a year and a half and SOBDE didn't have issues recruiting.

Kaiser and I are more than willing to discuss this with you guys if you want more clarification about the suggestion, and if this does pass, we hope you'll want to be involved in helping the subunit find success.

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1 hour ago, KaiserNeiner said:

past 3 Barlex’s did NOT like being on the actual job, and would often prefer to sit on 2ndAC SUP if they have their training due to the low benefits of the Barlex whitelist.

When this suggestion is denied for being the most idiotic thing I've ever seen, I have an idea for a suggestion for you to make. Or maybe don't put people into a position if they don't want to play the job for it... Idk.

-1 Bro really said lets add RC into 212th without having the agreement of the person in charge of RC. Having seen how poorly 212th's subunits can be managed in the past, there's no way Foxtrot wouldn't just be rejects who can't pass an actual SOBDE tryout after the initial bump of old people coming back for it dies out.

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Former Vice Chairman Mas Amedda | Former Senior Senator Meena TillsFormer 41st BCMD Gree (Shrimp) | Former 501st Major Kix  | Former Senior Admin

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Gonna contiue this with a -1 so yeah

6 minutes ago, Finn said:

This suggestion isn't overstepping,

Quoting Rizzo

 

14 minutes ago, Rizzo said:

Let me be clear, this was made without SOBDE support.

Thus you have oversteped him as it is still within his own battalion and He oversees all RC's so yeah

 

 

7 minutes ago, Finn said:

SOBDE has never had a hard time filling squads when they advertise and are active

Tell that to the many times SOBDE has had multiple spots in squads open for an extended period of time even through activity from 43 ROUNDS of delta tryouts as per what Edgar has said along side that a member of SOBDE got ANOYED that he was hosting so many in an attempt to fill the squad

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7 minutes ago, Rizzo said:

No agreement was reached with SOBDE. We felt that in the current state of the server, and the struggles we have faced filling our own positions, this would hurt us and the server tremendously. It can take us weeks to fill just one position, let alone fill up an entire squad due to the length and difficulty of our tryouts.

We spoke on this and I just cant trust that the standards of one battalion be upheld in another. Despite us speaking on this and disagreeing, this was still made and made to seem like you had our support. You did not. These members who are on board do not speak for us, let alone have the authority to leak our tryouts to help create tryouts for Foxtrot. If they did help and leak our tryouts, they would be blacklisted and removed.

As BCMD I have to think about what is best for my battalion, but when making my decision I had the well being of the whole server in mind. a 3 sub unit battalion would cause tons of problems for the server. A new server member would look at all the other battalions before making their decision, and of course would choose the biggest battalion and the one with the most opportunities within it. This would severely damage the recruitment of other battalions no doubt.

Let me be clear, this was made without SOBDE support.


-1


 

You and I did not reach an agreement, and I never included that in the suggestion nor did I want to imply that we did. If that came across as what happened, then I apologize but I never said that we as groups had come to an agreement. 

The standards was one of the things we did talk about, and that was a big problem for myself going forward with this. After speaking to individuals in SOBDE, they offered to help build new dupes and a tryout process and did not offer ANYTHING that is currently used for SOBDE. Those people did not offer to leak anything and would never work against you or your battalion. 

I can respect your efforts and your desire to protect your battalion. We do not want to take away from you at all, and from a different point of view, extra RC squads on the server would only attract more attention to SOBDE. If a new player looks to join the biggest battalion, then 212th, Rancor, and 2 months ago 501st would have had everyone in them. 

Let me be clear that this was made with some SOBDE support, and A LOT of the current server's support. 

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-1 No need for 212th to have like 5 different units. As the person who was Gregor when it was removed, it was removed for a reason. Keep it removed. 

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Notably Known as: Regimental Commander, Battalion Commander Doom, Last Foxtrot Lead Gregor, Boss, Sev, Battalion Commander Wolffe, Boost, Comet, Commander Faie, Charger

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-1, 212th doesn't need another unit, especially Foxtrot lmfao

oh also

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Edited by Tec
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+1

My tired ass brain reading all of these replies is getting tired. 

1. Foxtrot was an amazing group to have which created RP for the battalion and server as a whole. This would be a great step to creating more RP related situations and having people have more fun in general.
2. I could understand that some would think this would hurt some battalions with 212th might have 3 subunits in total. But to add Foxtrot we are also removing job's in place of them. 
3. SOBDE are effectively not using Foxtrot when they are such a good way to create RP, they were disregarded like wasteless trash among the unnamed RC's. Gregor also got removed from being a BCMD (Being free choice to use any Squad Lead as the BCMD, i think?). 
4. If SOBDE think this will hurt them and have people join 212th Foxtrot instead, fucking use them in SOBDE then like what? This confused me the most, people being salty 
that 212th will have the chance to get a amazing squad get back added to the server and them not being in SOBDE. 
5.  The overall success and numbers that 212th has had warrants this suggestion for Foxtrot aswell, this would increase competitiveness for the limited slots of Foxtrot Squad within 212th and be able to add more RP within them.
6. It may be true that SOBDE HQ were not on board with this. If SOBDE would not be open to help with setting up Foxtrot, with tryouts, information and overall to uphold the quality of a Republic Commando. This would happen with or without them with how they have reacted to the post I feel like. If SOBDE would not choose to assist if this suggestion passes, 212th would do their best to uphold a great RP quality with Foxtrot.
7. I'm sorry but the talk with the sub units talk, we do not have fucking 5. Subunit list currently is 2ndAC and Ghost Company. Red Squad only has lore names for pilots and we do not police them. They are not an actual sub unit but are allowed to use the lore names. Parjai is a elite squad of 2ndAC Troopers within 2ndAC, on the same jobs, same subunit. Ghost Company have seperate jobs but with a Re-skin battalion model, with this Suggestion going up the GC MED suggestion was voided to add Foxtrot. 

It is 5am, I apologise if I might have offended anyone, but I will be blunt and honest.

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48 minutes ago, Mystic said:

Also @CcmontyMarvel has stated plenty of times its not against the server rules to ping for a suggestion

Since when what?! I thought if you advertised your suggestion got instadenied?!

1 hour ago, KaiserNeiner said:

I do appreciate your feedback and would love to open up discussion about why a third subunit didn't succeed before.

SODBE is almost always missing at least one of their full squads, I can likely count the amount of times SOBDE has been full on hands. Battalion commandos did used to be a thing (idr if that was on here or icefuse) but were phased out/not brought over because it made SOBDE redundant as rather than joining a new battalion you could just stay in your old one but get all the perks commandos got. This isnt a case of "oh battalion is getting cool thing and I don't want them to have that" this is a case of "oh this battlion is getting something that has potential to kill another battalion". Also one battalion doesnt need 3 sub units, we don't need a jack of all trades battalion that can do everything

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Hey everyone its the best GC Arc Crys here, I give it a +1 not because I am in 212th but here are our reasons.

I been reading a lot of the responses already and also been lookin at the -1s, Foxtrot would be a official sub unit with 212th, yes we have 2nd AC and GC and I see people mention red squadron, its not a thing anymore its dead, Adding foxtrot will fill in that void and give 212th a boost of activity having people go for foxtrot company. It'll boost not just 212th but the server in general and come on WHO doesn't want to see gregor and his unit run around its about time we bring him back. 

I get the frustration of foxtrot being a RC unit and not in SOBDE but keep in mind that is what keeps it unique, a RC unit only tailored for 212th for lore reasons and not a direct control of SOBDE and its a  double edged sword as well, they do not have any control of SOBDE as well. Its a reason why they are going to be our Special forces unit.

The Only thing 212th got to them that makes them poplar is 2ndAC and still that gets outclassed by other whitelists within the server and the only thing going for us is our specialization in boarding and we don't even get priority over it since everyone does it before we can even do anything. Foxtrot will fill that void in and give 212th another specialty.

As a member of GC we are all on board of this change that would happen if this pulls through, Making GC what it was meant to be and Foxtrot filling in as the specialized operation unit within 212th, In my opinion SOBDE doesn't have a issue filling in spots for their own units since I always see people going for them constantly, seeing 20 something odd rounds for one character yeah there is dedication there.

From many of the -1s I see people say its stupid and not well thought of, the mere fact that yall are hearing that 212th might get a RC unit tailored to them is automatically stupid and saying that 212th sub units are poorly managed, recently 212th has been doing great and for sub units we have been killing it helping out where is needed and how they are managed. Assuming foxtrot would be a bunch a rejects is insane and assuming that the tryout won't be hard is absolutely insane there's a focus on ensuring that the addition of foxtrot doesn't dilute the quality or standards within the 212th. Thats why Cody is trying to gain the support of SOBDE to help guide this in the right direction. 


This was discussed to many higher ups before even being brought to the 212th officer core, Cody wants to make sure this runs smoothly and is not just some easy to get RC unit within 212th. 

Edited by SaintCrys
added a few more things
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1 minute ago, Ccmonty said:

Since when what?! I thought if you advertised your suggestion got instadenied?!

 

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3 minutes ago, SaintCrys said:

Assuming foxtrot would be a bunch a rejects is insane and assuming that the tryout won't be hard is absolutely insane

Just now, SaintCrys said:

This was discussed a lot with everyone and Kaiser made sure it was just add a RC unit to 212th and not make it hard to get into. If yall worried about people getting a easy RC whitelist yall should probably get some coping medicine. 

- 🤖

That's literally one of the concerns that people have and you just contradicted yourself about it. So much for keeping it to SOBDE standards like the suggestion says it would. Anyways, seeing the disconnect here between SOBDE and 212th members makes me highly doubt the implementation of this would go well at all. During these first few tryouts that SOBDE members are invited to go to, if they say the tryout is too easy, are you guys actually going to listen to them? The only way that SOBDE RC and 212th RC can be guaranteed to stay in any way comparable (given they have the same kit and have the same name, they should be) would be if you guys actually had assurances that SOBDE will retain control over selections, and that you guys actually care about the input of their leadership. Neither of which seems to be the case here.

It's also interesting seeing a failure of anybody to mention who the mystery SOBDE supporters of this are, probably because they are not anybody remotely in a position of power in the battalion.

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Former Vice Chairman Mas Amedda | Former Senior Senator Meena TillsFormer 41st BCMD Gree (Shrimp) | Former 501st Major Kix  | Former Senior Admin

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40 minutes ago, KaiserNeiner said:

The standards was one of the things we did talk about, and that was a big problem for myself going forward with this. After speaking to individuals in SOBDE, they offered to help build new dupes and a tryout process and did not offer ANYTHING that is currently used for SOBDE. Those people did not offer to leak anything and would never work against you or your battalion. 

I can respect your efforts and your desire to protect your battalion. We do not want to take away from you at all, and from a different point of view, extra RC squads on the server would only attract more attention to SOBDE. If a new player looks to join the biggest battalion, then 212th, Rancor, and 2 months ago 501st would have had everyone in them. 

Like I said before, those members do not speak for us and would not be allowed to help. It would no matter what leak the very nature of our tryouts. They would be removed/blacklisted for helping.

This will take almost all attention away from SOBDE and would damage recruitment for everyone else on the entire server, and people would see no reason to join us or any other batt if they can just be in 212th and wait for an RC spot to open there. Not to mention how much inflation 212th will see in numbers just because people will join to wait for an RC spot. This inflation would negatively impact the rest of the server immensely. 

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21 minutes ago, Keegan said:

- 🤖

That's literally one of the concerns that people have and you just contradicted yourself about it. So much for keeping it to SOBDE standards like the suggestion says it would. Anyways, seeing the disconnect here between SOBDE and 212th members makes me highly doubt the implementation of this would go well at all. During these first few tryouts that SOBDE members are invited to go to, if they say the tryout is too easy, are you guys actually going to listen to them? The only way that SOBDE RC and 212th RC can be guaranteed to stay in any way comparable (given they have the same kit and have the same name, they should be) would be if you guys actually had assurances that SOBDE will retain control over selections, and that you guys actually care about the input of their leadership. Neither of which seems to be the case here.

It's also interesting seeing a failure of anybody to mention who the mystery SOBDE supporters of this are, probably because they are not anybody remotely in a position of power in the battalion.

I would 100% listen to SOBDE if they told me the tryouts were too easy, and not just in the first tryouts. We have no intention to make these easy at all. Even with Rizzo and I disagreeing on the control of the squad, I still made it clear that I'd be more than willing to include SOBDE in the tryout process and creating the criteria needed with it still being a 212th subunit. 

With it being clear that this is getting a little heated, I'm not going to include the names that have offered help and support. Creating NEW tryouts for this unit with information from Foxtrot previously shouldn't be considered leaking anything, and if so that's wild.

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1 hour ago, Rizzo said:


Let me be clear, this was made without SOBDE support.

The fact that only one member of sobde is in support says numbers on why i am -1

Only person that is in support has just rejoined sobde recently not an officer not even a squad lead

Not a single officer is in support of this 

sobde has a set of standards that I do not believe 212th could uphold 

 

Edited by Super_
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11 minutes ago, Rizzo said:

Like I said before, those members do not speak for us and would not be allowed to help. It would no matter what leak the very nature of our tryouts. They would be removed/blacklisted for helping.

This will take almost all attention away from SOBDE and would damage recruitment for everyone else on the entire server, and people would see no reason to join us or any other batt if they can just be in 212th and wait for an RC spot to open there. Not to mention how much inflation 212th will see in numbers just because people will join to wait for an RC spot. This inflation would negatively impact the rest of the server immensely. 

I don't understand why offering support for a battalion's new potential subunit with previous experience in foxtrot and making new dupes would be considered leaking. No one has offered me a peak at anything and no one has offered me classified information. I have been offered guidance from previous Foxtrot members and help building tryout dupes from current SOBDE members who enjoy Foxtrot that have experience in the field. 

With more RC's on the server, my view is that it would encourage even more attention to an entire RC squad, especially if Foxtrot and SOBDE work together. If people don't enjoy Foxtrot, their natural next step would be to attend SOBDE tryouts for more opportunities in the server overall. 

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-1 for multiple reasons
 

46 minutes ago, KaiserNeiner said:

You and I did not reach an agreement, and I never included that in the suggestion nor did I want to imply that we did. If that came across as what happened, then I apologize but I never said that we as groups had come to an agreement. 

first off you talk to the BCMD of a battalion that this would most directly effect wither you wanted to or not it will, and he disagrees and says he does not want this but you go behind his back and post it anyways. Which one is highly disrespectful and rude but also points out where your priority lies
 

49 minutes ago, KaiserNeiner said:

I can respect your efforts and your desire to protect your battalion. We do not want to take away from you at all, and from a different point of view, extra RC squads on the server would only attract more attention to SOBDE. If a new player looks to join the biggest battalion, then 212th, Rancor, and 2 months ago 501st would have had everyone in them. 

despite you saying that it would not take away from SOBDE at all you in fact would be taking away from SOBDE in a indirect way even if you don't realize it, because in that same quote you point it out that if someone wants to join the largest battalion that they would join 212th,rancor,ect. and that is true, but if they also realize later on that they want to join SOBDE and just so happen to be 212th already what's the point of trying out for a new battalion? What's the point in going to a tryout for a completely different battalion when there consist a whole squad that already has everything that the other battalion has? There really isn't any they would most likely stay in their position in 212th until a spot would open or the finally pass the tryout.

 

1 hour ago, KaiserNeiner said:

Let me be clear that this was made with some SOBDE support, and A LOT of the current server's support. 

and with this, since you wont give the names of the SOBDE supporters which is fair, and i wont go to far into that in this, The overwhelming majority of SOBDE did not either talk to you or support this. And while you say a lot of the server support this, which there may be a fair bit that do, a large majority of this is also 212th members which might i point out would of course +1 something that would bring more to the battalion, while that's nice and all like you said, 212th is one of the largest battalions so of course the voice that they have is going to be loud and noticeable compared to others who would not agree with it.

 

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35 minutes ago, Rizzo said:

Not to mention how much inflation 212th will see in numbers just because people will join to wait for an RC spot. This inflation would negatively impact the rest of the server immensely. 

Now this guy studies economics! FJB and the federal reserve printing more money!

I also see people saying high staff approved this post, this doesn't mean high staff think it's a good idea at all. They just think it could do with community feedback and might have been intending to deny it unless it is resoundingly +1ed. Given how it currently is anything but that, the acceptance of this would only piss SOBDE off and make them feel their opinions don't matter at all. You say you didn't circumvent SOBDE, but you did when you went to high staff to get their approval instead. Good luck getting them to want to work with you guys at all.

 

25 minutes ago, KaiserNeiner said:

With it being clear that this is getting a little heated, I'm not going to include the names that have offered help and support.

Why? SOBDE Command obviously cannot take any action against them, or they would be reported and removed so quickly that their shoes wouldn't be on yet before they're out the door. Failing to actually name anyone makes me think Super's right and this is actually just one person.
 

19 minutes ago, KaiserNeiner said:

No one has offered me a peak at anything and no one has offered me classified information. I have been offered guidance from previous Foxtrot members and help building tryout dupes from current SOBDE members who enjoy Foxtrot that have experience in the field. 

If you don't think they're just going to base the tryout off information and dupes that SOBDE has used in the past (or even their current ones), and stuff they likely have built their current tryouts off of with adaptations, then you are an idiot. There's 100% going to be sections of the tryout that are the same. If SOBDE will have influence over the tryout, why not just give them actual control over it like they asked for? Otherwise these assurances are worth nothing to me. Because that's how it went last time. A similar thing was done where SOBDE came in, helped make the tryouts, helped host, got things to be the same standards, and then after that it fell apart in a few short weeks to meet the rock bottom standards that some expect to see here.

Edited by Keegan
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Former Vice Chairman Mas Amedda | Former Senior Senator Meena TillsFormer 41st BCMD Gree (Shrimp) | Former 501st Major Kix  | Former Senior Admin

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5 minutes ago, KaiserNeiner said:

Why would 212th give up 4 whitelists for a subunit that 212th does not control?

Because 212th wants to implement something that will go well, saying they want to work with SOBDE. I can't imagine SOBDE would work against you guys having a great subunit if they were in charge of it as an outreach of sorts. If they were doing that, I have no question that high command would step in on your guys' behalf. If there's no trust from your guys' side, why should they trust you enough to +1 this?

Also you literally said the Barlex and 212th Officer whitelists aren't used, and the GC ones wouldn't be used in this scenario. So you're not losing much of anything it sounds like to me, especially when in a couple weeks you guys will just suggest to add the Barlex model to another job, essentially meaning it was never removed.

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+1

212th has a lot of active members and good lore/RP, so with that, I can see that having Foxtrot return would benefit their battalion!

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17 minutes ago, Keegan said:

 

I also see people saying high staff approved this post, this doesn't mean high staff think it's a good idea at all. They just think it could do with community feedback and might have been intending to deny it unless it is resoundingly +1ed. Given how it currently is anything but that, the acceptance of this would only piss SOBDE off and make them feel their opinions don't matter at all. You say you didn't circumvent SOBDE, but you did when you went to high staff to get their approval instead. Good luck getting them to want to work with you guys at all..

 

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

It's also interesting seeing a failure of anybody to mention who the mystery SOBDE supporters of this are, probably because they are not anybody remotely in a position of power in the battalion.


Um sir, you are currently not caring for anybody in SOBDE that are not in position of power making them feel that their opinions don’t matter at all. Foxtrot was here back then and it didn’t hinder SOBDE chances to recruit people. A lot of people are currently saying they’ll just join 212th until a Foxtrot spot is open…. but isn’t it the same right now for SOBDE when they are full? Join another battalion until a spot is open? If people right now are interested in SOBDE and can’t get in within 20 rounds of tryouts then it might not be a server issue and it’s more like tryouts being too difficult for a Star Wars rp server. Even as before when they were attached to 212th it was working, as soon it switched to SOBDE that’s where foxtrot died.

Edited by Arroyo
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7 minutes ago, Madara said:

first off you talk to the BCMD of a battalion that this would most directly effect wither you wanted to or not it will, and he disagrees and says he does not want this but you go behind his back and post it anyways. Which one is highly disrespectful and rude but also points out where your priority lies
 

I never ONCE said I would be dropping my pursuit of Foxtrot when Rizzo and I did not come to an agreement, I just said I understood that he didn't want an RC squad outside of SOBDE. I respect Rizzo immensely and the work he's put in for SOBDE is extremely admirable. 
 

9 minutes ago, Madara said:

despite you saying that it would not take away from SOBDE at all you in fact would be taking away from SOBDE in a indirect way even if you don't realize it, because in that same quote you point it out that if someone wants to join the largest battalion that they would join 212th,rancor,ect. and that is true, but if they also realize later on that they want to join SOBDE and just so happen to be 212th already what's the point of trying out for a new battalion? What's the point in going to a tryout for a completely different battalion when there consist a whole squad that already has everything that the other battalion has? There really isn't any they would most likely stay in their position in 212th until a spot would open or the finally pass the tryout.

My response to this is that it can be applied to literally any battalion with any subunit. If 21'sts SO was filled, and someone wanted in, wouldn't they just stay in the battalion until a spot opened up? Would that not be a normal thing? I think you're heavily discounting your own battalion with this, and that there are plenty of great things about both battalions that would make the grass green on both sides of the fence. I also might be misunderstanding what you're saying here. 

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You are comparing CS-Go to Gmod, CS-GO takes immense skill while gmod is just a fun game, yes there is skill to it but not as much as CS-GO so the comparison is just not there. Everyone is saying that this tryout will be easy which it won't, I think that's what's  keeping everyone at bay here. Kaiser will make sure if this get Implemented that it won't be a easy thing to get at all! It is a Special forces for a reason. Gives people a reason to join 212th and what the problem with that? 

 

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+1  Not only do I think it would be cool to see a consistent battalion rewarded but also it has been a long while since foxtrot was removed in the first place due to inactivity. 212th in my opinion is more then capable of having this third sub unit and still upholding the commando standards. If it would please rizzo he or other officers of SOBDE could sit in on the tryouts to ensure this. Not saying this for Kaiser or others that had something to do with the suggestion but just spitballing ideas. This is my unscewed opinion as well. Has nothing to do with me being 212th. As a previous Oddball I would much rather have red squadron back other then just the lore names but that won't happen.

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+1
Being relatively new to the server I do not have intrinsic knowledge on the relative backstory regarding Foxtrot and its removal, so I had to read other responses regarding this subject. With the current state of the server, I believe that the common inactivity issue would not reach levels known previously and subsequently not be a problem. Another issue that seems to be prevalent is how Foxtrot would coincide with current SOBDE, there more than likely isn't going to be a best of both worlds solution yet I believe that SOBDE should have a good amount of say regarding Foxtrot as a whole.  Yet as one previous reply mentioned is that it's going to create inflation for the recruitment of 212th, yet I believe that there will be some way to alleviate that fear either by enforcing TIG lengths for enlisted 212th or by some measurement. Yet I digress, I have faith that both Kaiser and SOBDE would make the best decision they deem fit. 

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+1  212th is truly the only one that can handle having a 3rd Subunit right now and right now is the best opportunity to get foxtrot back. This needs to happen! 

Former:212th Goji CMD Oddball 212th BCMD Cody | ATK RCMD Quassont | Parjai-29 Ram'ser Current: 212th Oddball 2: Electric Boogaloo
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At this point I don't really think there is much more to say that would actually contribute to the conversation, so I'll just sum up by saying I think foxtrot shouldn't go to a battalion that unless it is brought back in RC. And I do think both sides have a little merit, but the -1 side has a bit more merit. So -1

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+1 I think that this would be a good addition for 2 reasons:

1) 212th is easily the most active branch and the most populated branch so I do not see a reason as to why they should be left out and denied more things that would help their numbers even more. We should be promoting the growth of branches and not trying to hurt them by denying them the right to more things. Now I know that I will get a reply saying that in hand will hurt SOBDE, but I disagree. SOBDE almost always has full numbers or 1-2 slots open, I do not see how this could hurt SOBDE when they are not as lacking in numbers as it is made out to be. ALSO if SOBDE needs to do soo many tryouts because most people do not pass, then just make it easier????? I get yall want to be the most elite branch that only the best can get into, but if yall have to do 10 rounds of tryouts for one slot to be filled then yall are just doing too much tbh...

2) I don't see how having a 3rd sub branch is in any way harmful to the server as a whole. ANY BRANCH CAN DO IT. If you have an issue in your own branch because you don't have a 3rd sub branch to add what you should have in lore, then suggest it? This is literally the whole point of this post. 212th has the Foxtrot unit in lore so it makes sense that they would have this in the server. I do not see how can refute a sub branch because it is "too many". If it is too many then maybe you just have too high expectations for a gmod RP server.

Obviously I have more thoughts about all of this so if you want to ask my opinion then find me in TS whenever I'm on, but I doubt no one will :(  

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1 hour ago, Egert said:

SOBDE disregarded Gregor and Foxtrot and they have gone completely unused, now that 212th have made a suggestion to add them back into 212th  how it was before,
you miraculously want them in SOBDE instead? We are also giving up whitelists for this to add more content.
Make it make sense

I just want to inform you, that if you had talked to SOBDE you would know we actually moved towards using them under Iceman's term but were denied by Marvel. For insight, we were denied unless we exchanged for another squad. 

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Okay after reading some other comments and thinking about it for a bit I'm gonna cast my vote

 

+1

 

Back when I was in 212th which was a couple of months ago so not a long time has passed however, 212th didn't had great relationships with some battalions maybe individuals yes but not batallions as a whole. I think with this addition to 212th not only will it add something new and exciting within the batallion but will also make the relationship between 212th and SOBDE better. With the guidance of 212th command and SOBDE if this passes I think they will make sure to pick the right person to be the very first Foxtrot if this passes in which I hope it does. 

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-1 - On two major points. I do not believe any battalion needs a 3rd Sub Unit. Regardless of the whitelists being sacrificed, I don't think this is an effective thing for the server. The second point is, no Commando Group or Specialized Unit such as those seen in SOBDE should be distributed among the battalions. Since SOBDE is a "Battalion" now, I think it waters down what SOBDE is currently, and will only serve as a stepping stool for others to request similar groups. To add on, while I respect what 212th did in the past with Foxtrot and have zero issues with the battalion, I am voting solely on the fact that in the current state of the server it would be detrimental to readd this. 

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5 hours ago, Finn said:

Wassup my guy. Wanted to critique a few things you've said here.

1. Red Squad isn't a thing anymore, and hasn't been for some time. People still use the RS lore names, but that's not a battalion sanctioned system, and we don't police the names our members want to use. Parjai is also not a subunit, it's what we call 2ndAC Officers. 

2.  I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, but it seems like some sort of inside joke of SOBDE. If it is, then it's very telling about your thoughts on Foxtrot in general.

3. While the original intention may have been standardization, the original intention was also to have Grey RC, which you clearly don't have. The battalion and server have changed, and there's no legitimate reason for SOBDE to hoard subunit that you guys have admitted publicly and privately you have no intention of using.

4. The naming convention was supposed to keep in line with the regiments, which is admittedly confusing. the ARF job is intended to fill the marksman role, and we're ok to keep the marksmen name if need be.

5. So, to set the record straight, we approached Rizzo well before we even talked to our own officers. We wanted him, and SOBDE as a whole, to work with us to make sure the subunit was the same quality as SOBDE. His response was to say that the only way to make this suggestion work would be to have SOBDE have full control over the subunit, and essentially be a squad that just is outreached to 212th. He wouldn't entertain any other offer.  

This suggestion isn't overstepping, considering high staff gave us the go ahead to make this suggestion. 

6. SOBDE has never had a hard time filling squads when they advertise and are active. Having been your Regimental previously, I have firsthand knowledge on how you guys operate, both successfully and not so successfully, so I can say this some some confidence that having Foxtrot in 212th will not hinder you in any way. I can also say this considering we already had Foxtrot for over a year and a half and SOBDE didn't have issues recruiting.

Kaiser and I are more than willing to discuss this with you guys if you want more clarification about the suggestion, and if this does pass, we hope you'll want to be involved in helping the subunit find success.

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-1 @Bleach

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Ima start with my +1, so y'all ain't gotta read the rest. This is a pretty interesting suggestion, especially as something that would not be utilized otherwise in Foxtrot. Regarding any thoughts about adding a 3rd subunit, you get 20 whitelists; how you divide them seems rather insignificant, especially when you have something as lore-rich as the 212th. Adding a RC subdivision to an attack battalion, in actuality, does not seem to degrade the quality of any branch entirely contained within SOBDE. The notion that it would be held to a lower standard mainly comes across that the 212th is a battalion without four capable troopers. Throughout my time here, 212th has been the most consistent battalion, and having the kinds of numbers that they do shows that their members, especially in officer positions, are in the mindset to be more willing to lead and consistently contribute over long periods of time. Adding a unit of those intended to consist of the most elite can still be filtered down to the most capable, and there is enough responsibility in their high command to demand a difficult enough tryout with a high standard to be held. In everything I have seen from SOBDE, I would hold consistency towards the bottom end, with constant rotation in the positions, and those that hold them rarely do so for long. I am not very close to most 212th members, but I know and recognize their officers personally because they've committed themselves to those positions and seek more than just what their specialization provides. Introducing the idea of community members who seek consistency and an elite unit should not be farfetched, and probably the intent of the officer corps within SOBDE. It remains, though, that this is not a present force and is something that can be brought forth through Foxtrot Group. Most disagreements about this situation seem like what implications SOBDE might bear, which seems negligible. Maybe this isn't the best comparison, but Alpha ARC acts as something within SOBDE managed by another battalion. Arguing that this affects SOBDE similarly begs why don't you ask how this affects LeBron's legacy, and the only difference 212th would have in comparison to Rancor is the general baseline for an "elite" battalion. I have not tried out for either, but I would wager to say it is a pretty similar difficulty to pass the tryout for either battalion. Yet, there are few active Alpha designated ARC troopers, and those with Alpha designated lore character positions considered under the purview of SOBDE, by lore, have been generally well-managed, something I imagine would not be too dissimilar from what 212th can do with Foxtrot. I have enough confidence in Kaiser and how he plans on running Foxtrot to be at least comparable with Rancor and Alpha, and it's not like SOBDE has been trying to bring back Froxtrot for themselves. It's not like they are pulling an RC squad out of nowhere, and the only precedence this might set is that for a 3rd subunit, which can be picked apart on a battalion basis as the future would ever deem so. This seems to be bringing back a unit, previously lauded under the control of 212th, that wouldn't damage the parity in general battalion success as a whole. It's four slots after all...

7 hours ago, Joe900000 said:

-1  I don't think it would be a good idea. It would be taking members from SOBDE. And everyone would be going to 212th.

Foxtrot seems to be something where people can develop their leadership skills within a popular battalion like 212th where once your skills are honed, you don't have to sacrifice your standing in a batt by leaving, and you grant yourself the relatively consistent opportunity of an RC spot. If anything, it's not taking members away from SOBDE. It's giving those who seek an elite kit and unit to work with in battalions where their influence helps out more community members a chance to do more. While people may initially stray from their battalions to go to 212th seeking this role, that fades quickly, and soon enough, people will join Foxtrot by being loyal first to 212th rather than wanting to jump to a SOBDE kit instantly.

8 hours ago, Mystic said:

i dont want 212th RP

Maybe if you said this in March or June, but especially in what I've seen recently, even the complete activity of all four Foxtrot members at all points wouldn't constitute this.

7 hours ago, Xiao said:

1. you all have EVERYTHING thus making it so no one would ever need to leave for a battalion for a minor reason
2. Foxtrot Group will never return.
3. RC are in SOBDE for the purpose of standardization
4. 
Job: Foxtrot RC MED and Job: Foxtrot RC ARF. If your trying to make this an RC squad and follow what it was then these should respecivly be RC MDMK and Tech so already going against standardization.
5. From what I have heard members of SOBDE that have a say in this disagreed with this and thus a BIG problem if your overstepping people you need to talk to about whether or not this is good
6. SOBDE already has problems filling up squad members with our current standards and thus I believe that juggling that along side having 212th do their own things will cause a lower standard for the squad

1: Why have the same specializations in all the battalions if any has anything? People stay in battalions longest when you find a group of people you enjoy, jetpacks and cloaks seem to initially cater to those only seeking short-term benefits. Acting like different battalions don't attract different personalities, and people wishing to RP within the top priority of a certain server aspect is kinda wild. Still gotta be 104th if you wanna drive tanks all day, or CG if you want to negotiate.

2: Why not? Seems like SOBDE members can't decide whether you care about Foxtrot existing or if you just want more control.

3: Why not move Alpha ARC to SOBDE then? Standardization is extremely relative, and I'm not very certain I want the same person in Bad Batch as Null ARC as those are two different mindsets and they are managed by the same type of people under the "standards" of SOBDE. While these are likely different, it would only be the same with Foxtrot, and I do not see why they must be managed the same as any other SOBDE, when they could provide more aspects that integrate to the larger battalion, kind of like the limited lore we know Foxtrot from Sarrish.

4: Why does this matter? If anything it seems that this gives an opportunity to flesh out the individual roles any user might wish to establish, and provide a more concentrated focus on what any squad member's RP might be. In the main roles you could assign, you generally have leader (Sergeant), medic, scout/marksman, slicer, EOD, and heavy. Forcing a squad's structure to be limited to a certain framework seems pretty constrictive, no? It's not like the squad members' specialties were already dictated in lore.

5: IDK whether this is really overstepping if he brought it to y'all's attention and didn't just go over your heads. It's no one's unit currently, and y'all do not seem to want it by your second point, so why do you care if it wouldn't affect your battalion, nor its image? It definitely wouldn't be portrayed as such upon implementation. If you think the unit is being mismanaged, that would be another thing, but this comes off as more of a fear of not having an initial shut-down decision.

6: I get that you think an attack battalion handling an RC unit would lower standards, but have some faith and at least consider all the anecdotes that the 212th controlling Foxtrot wouldn't be an issue for your standardization. As I see it, SOBDE's problem isn't finding anyone to get a role but rather finding the right person who wants to stay in it. Most of the time someone tries out for a position in SOBDE is because the battalion itself is elite, and usually not that it's the lore character they've wanted to RP as. You guys will always have that "elite" allure and Foxtrot, and the anticipation others have shown for it, demonstrated it will be as competitive as an SOBDE spot. Four positions is seriously not harming your battalion's state, and would you really want the others that seek Foxtrot since they cannot get into SOBDE? It's not like Synergy has some training program to mold a few of its members into the elite bunch that is only contained within SOBDE. The management would be in just as good of hands. This would not be managed by just some random, it is someone with good intentions and the ability to enforce standards.

8 hours ago, Rizzo said:

As BCMD I have to think about what is best for my battalion, but when making my decision I had the well being of the whole server in mind. a 3 sub unit battalion would cause tons of problems for the server. A new server member would look at all the other battalions before making their decision, and of course would choose the biggest battalion and the one with the most opportunities within it. This would severely damage the recruitment of other battalions no doubt.

7 hours ago, Rizzo said:

This will take almost all attention away from SOBDE and would damage recruitment for everyone else on the entire server, and people would see no reason to join us or any other batt if they can just be in 212th and wait for an RC spot to open there. 

I do not really know what problems having a third subunit introduces past what you mention for recruitment, and even then, it's not like the average CT who chooses to join a battalion since they are the largest is really the ideal archetype for an SOBDE recruit, anyway. They are just as likely to join the largest battalion at any point, I highly doubt the recruits ponder over deciding their battalion based on opportunities in subunits other than maybe an easy jetpack. Having a 3rd subunit is pretty insignificant when they are capped at four members, at that rate, you might as well say that SOBDE has four subunits already with them all being kept to limited squads. There are plenty of opportunities to go around in the server and any given user is going to be attracted to different ones naturally. I personally find that plenty of people do not want to get caught up in the specific grind of being in, and trying to move up, a large battalion. The hype over a new squad will die pretty quickly, and there will always likely be a 212th more willing to replace a Foxtrot Group member that leaves in comparison to someone of another battalion willing to risk transferring and halt any progress they might have achieved just for the Foxtrot tryout, and the number of new recruits joining 212th just for Foxtrot would be too inconsequential to consider. It's just one squad, and an opportunity to provide something fresh to the server and not mainly to those who just switch around in different positions withing SOBDE. Regardless, I would always rather have a trooper in my battalion who has a defined goal and the mindset to work and contribute until they can earn a position rather than one who seeks the most immediate new thing and does not show they are willing to maintain it. Having someone bide their time and really want one of these positions with the everpresent opportunity to work for it when any opportunity opens up caters to the type of trooper that is willing to benefit the battalion for what it can be, those who just want the position are the type who do not end up sticking around and are generally not worth the time.

Most arguments around the addition of this squad center around what 212th would do with this unit, what it takes away from others, and how SOBDE is not behind this. What I mainly gather from this, is that this is not as big of a deal as most are making it out to be. It is four people. Not a 10-trooper subunit, but four members in an RC squad that provides a different aspect to large battalion interactions like 212th or 501st have, wherein the specific dynamic achieved would vary greatly from anything that the culture in SOBDE produces. I can see that it comes off as undermining when this is brought up through 212th without explicit approval of the implementation, but there is not much lore knowledge about this group, and under the manner of the lore, it is under SOBDE but an attachment of the 212th. The understanding implied throughout this post is that SOBDE has control over all RC's operations, yet their claim to Foxtrot seems holds as much water to the understanding that Foxtrot was with 212th in the war. No argument has been yet made in this thread to garner any concern on another battalion being granted the type of loadout that SOBDE has and that Foxtrot would receive, and no one else gets close without paying for the shotguns. Adding this unit grants that opportunity for more people, especially those who do not want to risk their standing or projective loyalty in their battalion by even just trying out for SOBDE, or sacrificing what they have built for their own battalion by successfully transferring for an SOBDE slot. I find it very unlikely that these positions would go to those who are considered "rejects" from SOBDE tryouts rather than those who have proved themselves within 212th and want a more elite unit to work within while attempting to make a name for themselves in such a consistent battalion. Overall, this seems much more of a benefit to the abilities of the 212th than a detriment to any other unit, much less SOBDE.

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Hello all just to chime in here, As a former member of foxtrot 212th edition their has been many arguments some valid some not so much. I will just say when SOBDE had Foxtrot it was misused or always needing positions filled one fix at a time was make Gregor the BCMD of Sobde and that didn't bode well now we have any person in SOBDE lead position can go for BCMD of SOBDE. Before some rant goes on I will get straight to the point Foxtrot has been out of the battalion and in a battalion a couple times by this point of the server and community. When Foxtrot was in 212th it did not effect the server like every has stated I firmly remember them hosting tryouts and they were difficult but not SOBDE difficult because they were not awarded the same kits or bonuses that SOBDE had. With that being said when they were moved back into SOBDE it just sorta went flat and was removed. So the conversations about how it will immensely effect the player base or change this or that is not valid in my opinion nor to stir the pot I should say. Now some egos may be bruised by this posting but at the end of the day SOBDE is elite for a reason just because one unit isn't applied there doesn't mean its any less I mean look at the History of the community and the use of units. People get big heads or elitism if things are just kept to one sector but if you add something and balance it properly all parties should be happy. Because at the end of the day this kind of change isn't a bad change it is one to give the community something more. Which added content is always important to me when I see a lack for so long or how people control or manipulate things. In closing I see both points but at the end of the day when people state this is ground breaking its not period. The only people affected are yes SOBDE and 212th but if things are coordinated and worked through properly this could just be a plus for the community as a whole unless people are so insecure their afraid their going to lose something that was never an issue in the first place.

 

+1

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2 hours ago, Wolfro said:

Hello all just to chime in here, As a former member of foxtrot 212th edition their has been many arguments some valid some not so much. I will just say when SOBDE had Foxtrot it was misused or always needing positions filled one fix at a time was make Gregor the BCMD of Sobde and that didn't bode well now we have any person in SOBDE lead position can go for BCMD of SOBDE. Before some rant goes on I will get straight to the point Foxtrot has been out of the battalion and in a battalion a couple times by this point of the server and community. When Foxtrot was in 212th it did not effect the server like every has stated I firmly remember them hosting tryouts and they were difficult but not SOBDE difficult because they were not awarded the same kits or bonuses that SOBDE had. With that being said when they were moved back into SOBDE it just sorta went flat and was removed. So the conversations about how it will immensely effect the player base or change this or that is not valid in my opinion nor to stir the pot I should say. Now some egos may be bruised by this posting but at the end of the day SOBDE is elite for a reason just because one unit isn't applied there doesn't mean its any less I mean look at the History of the community and the use of units. People get big heads or elitism if things are just kept to one sector but if you add something and balance it properly all parties should be happy. Because at the end of the day this kind of change isn't a bad change it is one to give the community something more. Which added content is always important to me when I see a lack for so long or how people control or manipulate things. In closing I see both points but at the end of the day when people state this is ground breaking its not period. The only people affected are yes SOBDE and 212th but if things are coordinated and worked through properly this could just be a plus for the community as a whole unless people are so insecure their afraid their going to lose something that was never an issue in the first place.

 

+1

Based Wolfro!

 

+1

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