Suggestion - Remove/Revamp the CC quiz

[Heart]

Name: Heart

RP Rank: Jedi Council Member

Suggestion: Remove/Revamp the CC Quiz

Implementation: To either:

Completely remove the CC quiz, and allow staff to train once again, possibly even considering TR program (although, PLEASE leave this for another suggestion)

or

Move the CC quiz so that it requires staff intervention (I.E: Move it into the event box and add a textscreen)

My main argument for this decision is that it's the same group of minges and memers that constantly gain access to do small, but definitely annoying actions that require staff and CG intervention. It really sucks to see the person who was permabanned come back 10 minutes later and continue to do the EXACT same thing again. Funny intercom, ship stealing, MRDM, all because they memorized or sent the CC quiz to their friends and are able to RP without any vetting system. 

This change would allow each CC to at the very least be SEEN by a staff member (Even an NA could do this) and recognize their name, voice, etc. to prevent them from getting a whitelist and continuing with their tomfoolery

Lore: 99.999% of clones did not intentionally sabotage their fellow troopers, nor did they break rank permissions to use the intercom.

Workshop content if applicable:
(If no workshop content, suggest a developer or put "Require Development")

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Heart

[Conrad]

1 minute ago, Heart said:

Completely remove the CC quiz, and allow staff to train once again, possibly even considering TR program (although, PLEASE leave this for another suggestion)

As far as I know, staff can/should still train. The CC quiz is for players that can read of the wall/have played on SWRP servers previously. The rest should request a trainer, which all staff members should be trained for. Has this changed recently?

[Heart]

1 minute ago, Conrad said:

As far as I know, staff can/should still train. The CC quiz is for players that can read of the wall/have played on SWRP servers previously. The rest should request a trainer, which all staff members should be trained for. Has this changed recently?

Let me rephrase, because you are right: staff can still train, but I'm suggesting it be mandatory a CC is required to at least be seen/trained by a staff member before obtaining a whitelist, or getting a chance. I understand the purpose of the test, but it's been horribly abused these past months

[Conrad]

Hard -1. The CC trainer saves time for members so they can spend time playing on the server instead of training a CC. Trying to remove/slim down things to maximize playing vs grinding work should be priority, and this is a step backwards.

[Heart]

Just now, Conrad said:

Hard -1. The CC trainer saves time for members so they can spend time playing on the server instead of training a CC. Trying to remove/slim down things to maximize playing vs grinding work should be priority, and this is a step backwards.

I think you're missing the part where I said it can remain, but require a simple TP to allow them to take the test. Won't ask you to change however.

[Snadvich]

-1 Current system is fine as it is. 

[Maddoxx]

7 minutes ago, Heart said:

I think you're missing the part where I said it can remain, but require a simple TP to allow them to take the test. Won't ask you to change however.

Big dumb. Test works fine, people will still minge one way or another not gonna try and waste my staff team's time on training when the CC test does it fine. 

[Hanz]

14 minutes ago, Heart said:

I think you're missing the part where I said it can remain, but require a simple TP to allow them to take the test. Won't ask you to change however.

I don't see how this will change a thing. It will just force staff to take pointless tickets. And it will make the event room unusable for events now. Imagine a minge in a CC training watching an event job spawn in. Imagine the chaos that would ensue.
Actually that would be hilarious +1

[Guac]

-1

[GregRocks]

+1
I'm with heart for several reasons.

 - Having players do trainings is not only traditional and more personal, but it's a solid minge barrier. Most of the CTs who join JUST minge, over half of which could be prevented by having players do trainings.
 - Having been a new admin, sometimes it's genuinely hard to get to NA tickets. If there were more CT trainings to do, new admins would have no problem getting promoted because there would be more work.
 - It would be easier to gauge how many new players we actually get
 - The test is easy. Cheesing it is easy.
 - Heart has a FANTASTIC point about people having been seen by staff. Countless people could get past this training and get free reign over the base to spam intercom, TK players, or otherwise disrupt genuine roleplay because the staff didn't even know they existed, and couldn't prepare for someone they didn't know existed to go disrupt roleplay, leaving CG to clean up a mess by themselves, which takes them significant time. If staff or an officer know a new player exists, they can monitor or at least keep the player in mind, making response times much faster and keep small fires from becoming incredibly disruptive fires.

I think the only reason the test still exists is simply quick convenience and laziness. People don't want to train, so they made the test to get out of it, even though it barely passes as a suitable replacement for player training. At the very least having staff administer the test or oversee it's taking to act as a supervisor to this new player. They don't have to follow them around to be ready for them to minge. To me, from day one, this test has felt like a half-baked solution to being too lazy to train CTs properly.

[Marvel]

3 hours ago, Hanz said:

It will just force staff to take pointless tickets.

[Maddoxx]

17 minutes ago, Lovestruck said:

over half of which could be prevented by having players do trainings.

Even if Staff go back to training they will not be allowed to deny CT WL to someone if they seem mingey. This would not only be a huge discrimination but like 80% of players join the server just to minge and end up staying as full players. I know I did. 

17 minutes ago, Lovestruck said:

 - Heart has a FANTASTIC point about people having been seen by staff. Countless people could get past this training and get free reign over the base to spam intercom, TK players, or otherwise disrupt genuine roleplay because the staff didn't even know they existed, and couldn't prepare for someone they didn't know existed to go disrupt roleplay, leaving CG to clean up a mess by themselves, which takes them significant time. If staff or an officer know a new player exists, they can monitor or at least keep the player in mind, making response times much faster and keep small fires from becoming incredibly disruptive fires.

Handling all of those issues you just listed is a CG/TG thing not a staff issue. Staff should not step in on a situation that can be handled by in game resources such as a jail time and nobody should ever "monitor" CTs. Basically everything you said in this paragraph is the wrong way we want thing handled.  

 

22 minutes ago, Lovestruck said:

I think the only reason the test still exists is simply quick convenience and laziness. People don't want to train, so they made the test to get out of it, even though it barely passes as a suitable replacement for player training. At the very least having staff administer the test or oversee it's taking to act as a supervisor to this new player. They don't have to follow them around to be ready for them to minge. To me, from day one, this test has felt like a half-baked solution to being too lazy to train CTs properly.

New players are a very rare thing, most people have played CWRP before as such that is the point of this test. Not to be lazy and not train but there's no point in us telling them the same info every CWRP server says. That said when there are new players they still get trained by a staff member most of the time as they request one in chat. 

 

28 minutes ago, Lovestruck said:

- It would be easier to gauge how many new players we actually get

We already keep count of this .-. including those who take the test and those who don't.

 

28 minutes ago, Lovestruck said:

 - Having been a new admin, sometimes it's genuinely hard to get to NA tickets. If there were more CT trainings to do, new admins would have no problem getting promoted because there would be more work.

This wouldn't get you promoted faster. You get promoted out of NA when we feel you have a decent understanding of your job as a staff member not when you do X amount of tickets. That would be as stupid as thinking we don't track players joining, or that staff should do every CC training.  

[Sixta]

Tr shall return 😈

@Sock Monkey

[Jayarr]

The problem with the TR problem is it's more work where it doesn't need to exist in some instances.
The whole infrastructure that surrounded the TR team in the past was only a useful ticket to personal promotions within the staff team itself, and didn't really help much else, not even player assisted income, compared to what we have going with the quiz and the occasional player held trainings. I personally find it within staffs best interests to focus on things like the GM team, and as proven by how much work has been forward into that team itself and how many events are being actively held, it only proves the point that shifting focus away from training was nothing more then beneficial.

However, I believe I get one standpoint from this post; and that may be that staff should have another branch to focus some effort into aside from the GM team itself. What that branch may be is entirely open to discussion, but I come from the personal standpoint that staff should have choices on what they wish to do for their time in the team, other than being a GM. TR, however, is certainly not the answer at this time.

Even so, the points made would be valid at a point where we had very steady income like that of which we saw in 2018, but with the current statistics, the TR team would just hinder us more than assist us.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Jayarr

[Bacta]

I wanna play devils advocate here for a second and bring up the biggest thing about TR training with people, Heart has some validity with his statements.

Your 1st freind on CWRP, SWRP is a extremely social game, its make or break and we all know the story that has been said before, you got on here to minge, but you made a really cool freind (mine way the goat Jerry from 104th, and Young who was going for fixer). These are your first friends and alot of the times influenced what your goals were on the server. There is that piece missing, the interception that alot of mingy CTs get with their first trainer is lost and we are getting alot more mingy CTs for that exact reason i believe. TR Training for alot of people extended past the CC room to even the main server, where they would alot of the times do tours and shit like that. That REALLY Helped, I remember @Spieler(Formally known as Parjai two) giving tours to CCs and just being a nice guy to all the new guys. Same with @Axar

I remember trying to think of a team for like weeks on end to give some variety, something that will focus more on the player-base to help them ease into SWRP, but its so hard to think of something that would be super new. I do think what we have now is not the best but we should think outside the box.

DM me on discord if you are confused @Jayarr

Edited April 12, 2022 by Bacta

[Jayarr]

2 minutes ago, Bacta said:

I wanna play devils advocate here for a second and bring up the biggest thing about TR training with people, Heart has some validity with his statements.

Your 1st freind on CWRP, SWRP is a extremely social game, its make or break and we all know the story that has been said before, you got on here to minge, but you made a really cool freind (mine way the goat Jerry from 104th, and Young who was going for fixer). These are your first friends and alot of the times influenced what your goals were on the server. There is that piece missing, the interception that alot of mingy CTs get with their first trainer is lost and we are getting alot more mingy CTs for that exact reason i believe. TR Training for alot of people extended past the CC room to even the main server, where they would alot of the times do tours and shit like that. That REALLY Helped, I remember @Spieler(Formally known as Parjai two) giving tours to CCs and just being a nice guy to all the new guys. Same with @Axar

I remember trying to think of a team for like weeks on end to give some variety, something that will focus more on the player-base to help them ease into SWRP, but its so hard to think of something that would be super new. I do think what we have now is not the best but we should think outside the box.

DM me on discord if you are confused @Jayarr

That's great and all, but everything you just mentioned only functions on a case to case basis and isn't consistent enough to warrant such behavior for a whole team. Enforcing required tours and more "enthusiastic" engagements would never really work from a volunteered staff team who already have to put in a good bit of work on their own accord, as cool as the idea is

[Baron]

-1 This isn't as big of an issue as it seems. Minges come on to the server, they MRDM, you respawn and go back to what you were doing. If it hurt RP in that instance then take a deep breath, ignore what happened and resume the scenario or even reset. The Minge gets arrested, kicked or banned and we move on with it. The current system allows players and staff to focus more on playing that game itself then spending 15-20 minutes (with a good CC not a minge) "training" them. 

In the instance where you mention someone was perma-banned and were still playing, shouldn't this situation have been escalated to +D (if it wasn't that is)? If they are using Alt accounts isn't that a greater issue here then the training system? If it is 100% confirmed they are an ALT that is.

Going to use my soapbox here and say that, what @Bacta is saying in terms of interacting with CTs for their first impression is incredibly important, but isn't necessarily a thing only staff should do but as a community. Give CTs a chance and treat them like they are already in your battalion, help them out, don't just make assumptions. If treat new players with respect and as equals they may stay around, Minges may reform, but if you are just being a dick to them, they will always remain a dick. 

[BigZach]

most of the questions on the quiz don't have anything to do with the training since we've stripped it down so much. The training now is like 10 minutes max. Both the training and the quiz guy seem more and more redundant as time goes on and stuff is removed. 

The implementation you suggest is pretty redundant. Personally I'd like to see the trainers questions updated to only covers whats in the current CC training and then let them train themselves. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by BigZach

[Marvel]

Noticing a trend where most of the people that want the TR Program back were TRO+ and hardly ever had to train…

I think imma -1 not sure this’ll help much tho I do understand the intent. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Marvel

[Mystic]

-1. Staff or not staff, As long as its not directly breaking Server rules with homophobia/racism and is something like a banger song in DB minges can be appreciated as comedic relief sometimes. and it hardly happens during serious events. its more around the time of downtime or quiet times on the server. Its easier to just mute/kick them in this scenario or actually give CG something to  do rather than stand around all day.

[Seabass]

-1 everyone else pretty much summed it up

[Finn]

Was TR training THAT bad?

[Mantis]

Before I answer let me pull someone to train CCs 1/3

[Glory22]

On 4/11/2022 at 8:30 PM, Heart said:

I understand the purpose of the test, but it's been horribly abused these past months

Is there any evidence of people specifically abusing the test? Would switching to actual staff interaction being required actually prevent that kind of person?

[Slak]

There are some staff that barely take any tickets. Giving them another job to not do is the last we should do. -1. Although TR program would be lit.

[Sock Monkey]

Hello :)

The intent of the CC exam was to allow players who have previously played CWRP to skip the traditional training to save both their time, as well as our playerbase and staff teams time.

 

Assuming a CC training take 10 minutes we've saved 14,070 minutes or 234.5 hours of our players.

 

for the select times a player with ill intent comes on the server, its much more reasonable to have a staff member spend a couple minutes typing up a ban, then have a staff member train for 10 minutes, then have to spend a couple minutes typing up a ban after whitelisting. 


Jayarr sums it up really well, and if you look at the CC numbers I still keep track of below, we are well below peak TR program CC numbers making the TR team obsolete with staff members taking the occasional training and the rest going through the exam. 

 

Also for a short amount of time we had it so CCs could pass the exam but still needed a whitelist and it would lead to players in our late night timezones disconnecting after completing the exam because no staff would be available to whitelist. 

@Lovestruck 

[Comics]

personally, when I was staff the training was cancer and at peak 2018 it took TRO+ pulling maybe 16 people, who were all fake AFK, before they got a trainer. People don't like doing it lol and forcing staff to act a block for minges is sort of cruel. We just let staff ban them when they're annoying they shouldn't be forced to torture themselves with 10 minutes trainings with brainlets

-1

[Guac]

Good intention, however I don't think this is the best course of action. -1

 

[Misfit]

peak times when i change my name to "ZZZZZ" so i wouldnt be pulled after seeing "TRAINING BEFORE RP!" . i also dont like reading walls
-1

[Gears]

Efficiency is better. As a TRO for 14 Months I can tell you that is was the most tedious job to do, second to actually training the people. The TR Program was incredibly inefficient branch compared to what we have now.

The idea that removing the quiz would reduce minges and trolling is just wrong from observations with or without the program. These people are willing to sit through 20 mins to troll for 5.

-1

[Hank]

-1 

This isn't really going to fix the problem, all I can see it doing is just pushing it down the street a little bit to make it preventable by a few more minutes, while also bothering staff. I also feel that to overhaul the system due to the occasional war criminal of a CT that results in the consistent intervention of staff will just slow things down. While your arguments are valid and the points are made in good faith, I cannot support it. Best of Luck!

[Jad]

Unfortunately, this suggestion has been DENIED.

If the same suggestion is submitted again within 60 DAYS of this post it will be automatically denied.

// LOCKED
// MOVED TO [CW] SERVER SUGGESTIONS - DENIED
 

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[Jad]

High Staff have the ability to increase ban lengths on players when and where required. The CC Trainer is here to stay. If questions are needed to be adjusted contact @Sock Monkey.