Thoughts on the DC-17m Shotgun

[Spaghetti]

Hello, I have summoned you today because I want to know other peoples opinions on the DC-17m shotgun. 

 

I personally think it is OP dealing over 1000 damage in 4 shots. just want to hear opinions please don't argue

Edited November 28, 2020 by Spaghetti

[Fyi]

It's a strong weapon, that's for sure. In a perfect world it would only be used against droids, but ever since we added more factions into the mix it's pretty much only being used as a "I'm gonna fuck you up" style weapon.

[KillJoy]

EA give us your money for fun

[Foxey]

Personally I prefer the old permaweapon system. Quite a lot, actually. My biggest frustration with the RC shotgun is that if someone has it they can end an event instantly, and if you raise HP of NPCs or Jobs to counter the shotguns, nobody without them can kill a thing. It's just unbalanced.

 

[Mitchell]

Donation weapons are always going to be extremely strong because they are stuff that people spend money on. Unless they’re strong there’s no incentive to buy them.

Yes it can ruin events or RP but the 2 donation weapons are both short ranged and are used by clones which are extremely easy to kill without jet packs.

most of the issues revolving around these weapons can be solved with 2 things.

1. Smarter event jobs, if your Commando droid just rushes into a group of clones they deserve to die. If you see someone with a shot gun stay at ranged.

2. Nerfing jet packs ( which apparently is happening but I’m not 100% certain on it )

As for Bounty hunters the same really applies.

 be smarter, bounty hunters aren’t meant to outgun republic troopers, be smarter and play around their shotguns with longer ranged weapons or avoiding fights unless necessary.

yes the shotgun is annoying but there are ways to mitigate it.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Mitchell

[Marvel]

RC Shotgun isn't real!

[Eclipse]

i just bought it though...


I like it. It's very strong and requires people to not rush in and fight when you are trying to counter it. Same with attackers. People rushing in will die fast if they are spotted and taken down. It requires a bit of a brain to take down and a bit of a brain to make a plan that isn't charging like a neanderthal 

[Otter]

I love this gun personally I grinded my credits for this gun and I know it op but it’s a store bought weapon of course it is gonna be op it’s 85$ if someone were to buy it and it would suck they would be mad. 
 

[Piff]

Shotgun go brrrr

Edited November 28, 2020 by Piff

[Harsh]

Oh man. I spent around 25 days afking on the Jaing job to get that damn weapon. Flying around with that shotgun was OP as all hell; I still remember some events where I could outgun groups of Sith Event jobs with 1000s of health. 
 

That said, the gun is still balanced imo given that  you need to have a brain to use it. You’re basically a glass cannon and need to think tour way through situations rather than just holding down left click. 

[Clutch]

3 hours ago, Dinaric said:

people really buying the flamethrower for 100$ and the shotgun for 85$ in a 10$ game...

I have almost everything on the store and only used credits. You just got to have other people waste their money on a $10 game lmao

[Woeny]

It ruins events,
 

[Sinister]

I have it, and rarely use it. People that use that gun exclusively are extremely annoying. Especially when you start to combine that gun + a JT, or a Cloaker (including BH), then it’s horrible. I say the same about NT, i’d rather neither be a thing imo. 

 

Flamethrower is just fun. Waste of money and not a viable weapon but quite fun

[Bbstine]

All I have other than my dc-15a is the shotgun, so I will use the shotgun unless I plan on shooting across anaxes 

[Kortnul]

I have had at least 2 events ruined entirely because some clone walks up to me with the shotgun pointed at me and just guns me down. I personally don't like it since it's just ungodly strong, but I understand why it is strong with the $85 dollar paywall, or waiting until you get like 25 Million in game.

[Zensras]

17 minutes ago, Kortnul said:

I have had at least 2 events ruined entirely because some clone walks up to me with the shotgun pointed at me and just guns me down. I personally don't like it since it's just ungodly strong, but I understand why it is strong with the $85 dollar paywall, or waiting until you get like 25 Million in game.

Some GMs have been allowing helpers to spawn the shatter shotgun when people do this (AND ONLY ONE THE PEOPLE USING THE SHOTGUN) It doesn't help the fact that we warn people not to use that they get pissy over the taste of their own medicine. 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Zensras

[Nova_]

Honestly some classes have to rely on this weapon , i've personally never really had a problem with weapon and it's been a really big help when I had to go on jobs with not so good job loadouts.

[Foxey]

On 11/28/2020 at 9:38 PM, Sinister said:

Flamethrower is just fun. Waste of money and not a viable weapon but quite fun

Exactly! I forgot that in my last post. The flamethrower is $15 more expensive and it's been on the server for much longer and we've never really had issues with the flamethrower being an overpowered god-gun that everyone on the server owned lol.

Flamethrower is good fun (and the people who use them usually do so fairly responsibly), the shotgun is overpowered (and abused). 

[Stormzy]

If the shotgun ruins your event...Spawn in a shotgun(SV-G I think) for your event jobs. Ezyy claps. Fight shotty's with shotty's 

[Hanz]

26 minutes ago, Stormzyyy said:

If the shotgun ruins your event...Spawn in a shotgun(SV-G I think) for your event jobs. Ezyy claps. Fight shotty's with shotty's 

I can manage to kill most clones with it with that shotgun but they eat all the health up. I honestly think the health for droids allowed in the GM rules should be raised because the only way I can take over an area of base is with commandos at 800 hp or an OP event job which doesn't go well on ratings

[Shake]

It loves it's sister more then it loves you

[Merrill]

To sum it up in its entirety:

The DC-17m shotgun is a pay-to-win weapon in a game where "winning" gives you nothing but brownie points.

There is no skill in the 17m, beside knowing that "shotgun no do far stuff". You pull the trigger, things close to you die.

The DC-17m can be defined as a crutch, as it requires minimal effort to use, and is used as a "get out of jail free" card in any type of CQC situation, save for crashing ships or Rockets

 

All in all, DC-17m is an OP Weapon, but the issue is, the DC-17m isn't the reason why people have a problem with the DC-17m.

It's the people using it.

Many users abuse the weapon for events, using it as an "RP Stopper" by excuting EJs or others in seconds, rather than go along with the RP

Many users abuse it for PvP, knowing it is the ultimate weapon for CQC and very few people will have it or be able to counter it with the other downgrades.

Some users act as if they are better than others at PvP or in general, purely because they are using a poor financial choice as a weapon.

 

Frankly, the server would be better off if the DC-17m had more of the flamethrower vibe going for it: Wacky, fun, and debatably useful. Perhaps downgrading damage but jacking up fire-rate, making it akin to the AA-12. Or, increase magazine size, jack up the spread massively, and have it be the "vomiting bullets" gun. Anything could go, except for what we have right now.

 

[Bbstine]

Sounds like people are upset about the DC-17m. 
 

 

When an event rule is put in place to prevent people from using this shotgun during deployments then it’s all said and done, which is what people do. You have to look at it from this end, people purchased the shotgun not because it was a poor financial choice but because it’s a way of donating to the upkeep of the server. It is how we pay for developers which means new models and new content overall. 
 

Speaking from someone who personally owns the gun and paid for it with my own money (no credits given in-game to get it purchased for me) I was alright with giving nearly 100 dollars to upkeep a server that I’ve played on since it’s creation.

 

Look at it like this, I could’ve instead purchased a metric fuck ton of credits and bought perma weapons that did a lot of damage (the .50 cal ripoff) and just sniped you in the face from a distance. 
 

There has to be an incentive to high purchases, which is why we have custom channels, perks, GUNS. Because no one is going to willfully hand over money to a server just because they feel like it.

 

I get that the weapon is OP as fuck and should get a nerf, but it’s marketed as the “God Gun.”

[Marvel]

Pay to win weapons in a RP server a bit cringe tbh. Especially when I spawn on third floor walk out of my bunks to meet a Freelancer and attempt to RP with him and in the middle of my sentence I see him whip the RC shotgun out and all I can picture is this:

#Bringbackhexshield

[Crimson]

Honestly I agree with the statement that its on the person using it. I know many users of the RC Shotgun who use it as a last resort. Again im not saying you should not use something you or someone else payed 85$ for, You grinded the money one way or another. What I am saying is let remember this is a game and a community. 

First point is that most factions are also members of the community. So say for instance the new CIS Faction just got a brand new member and he wants to rank up in the CIS faction. However every time he takes part in an operation he gets gunned down by a jetpacking clone with an RC shotgun. In most cases the jetpack user is going to use his full mobility to reach max speed. That is unreasonable to fight with the average reaction time. Now a counter argument would be is to fight smarter. I think that's a dumb argument in some cases. This is a game, you need to understand for this community to grow, you need to balance yourself. Take a L every once and a while so that others may enjoy it. Losing doesn't much in an RP game.

Second point comes down arguments against the RC shotgun. How do we nerf it? This is a question Jad asked me and I had no answer at the time. You can not just say nerf it because that is vague and not a solution. "Well Lower the damage." Again, its 85$ worth of an investment. It can only be so low in damage due to the money people are spending. My personally solution is to lower the mobility so it only interferes with those who abuse other means to increase its effectiveness. 

Again thats my two cents, Critical thinking results in logical solutions most of the time.

[Merrill]

9 minutes ago, Crimson said:

 My personally solution is to lower the mobility so it only interferes with those who abuse other means to increase its effectiveness. 

Really strong point on that.  +1

[Matt-Matthos]

I mean I've always had my opinion on this weapon. It ruins RP and events

Their is a reason why GM's and SIM Owners have to ban it.

I, like many others have had many experiences with the shotgun. Like maybe you are trying to detain someone on your BH and a trooper just flies in front of you with the shotgun and says back away. Then its hard to do anything as the clone just needs to left click and your done. Or anywhere in that matter, lets say you wanna have some fun and and break republic law, well you cant escape and maybe cause fun for both parties when 5 clones point that thing at you. You get the point...

Now I understand its 85$ so its supposed to be the weapon of god and its also the the fact that you are contributing to the server. So I don't think it will ever get nerfed damaged wise but theirs still room for fixing it like Crimson suggested. 

I've noticed that more and more people begin to complain about the weapon. That its too OP and it ruins fun or RP. So its good that we are re visiting this discussion on ways that it can be thought out and fixed to make it fair for all members of the community, whether you have the gun or not.

Because when will the line be drawn between it being a good way to help the community and it being a god like weapon used to change the side of any RP situation/combat situation in a instant?

 

[Smeck]

The Flamethrower is not only more expensive than that god forsaken shotgun, but it's also pretty balanced imo. A perfect example as to how an overpriced donator weapon should be. Plenty of people have paid for that Flamethrower and are free to use it in scenarios that the 17m isn't because of said balancing. If you make your gun retard abuse proof, your problems go away. Idk why this shotgun is still so strong, as it has been whined about for months. Just make people REALLY slow when they walk with it or lower the damage (because in my opinion the dmg is fucked from any angle you look at it). To me the gun needs a rework, that's all there is to it.

"jUst DiSTanCe yoURselF frOm tHe ShOtGUn rEtaRd." That's not valid counter play to the shotgun, nor is it a Valid or respectable argument against people who want it nerfed/reworked. If I could distance myself without being killed in a millisecond I wouldn't be complaining, nor would anyone else on this thread. The same people telling others it can only be used up close therefore making it balanced and fair, are likely the same fucks that gave it such a bad rep by abusing it. If you really want to spend $85 to support a server you can buy credits which can be used on a multitude of other things (things that are arguably more worth your time) instead of an abysmal mistake of a shotgun. That argument to me also isn't valid and just seems lazy. But hey, who am I to tell you what to do with your money?

Later dickheads.

[Brooklyn]

Honestly. I paid for this shit the second it came out. And not gonna lie, I bought it for a LOT of people in this community. If you have an issue. My DM's are always open. In which, I'll tell you to fuck off and deal with it :D

[Jad]

So, I believe I've read everything so far in this thread. I see mixed opinions here so it's looking like a rough 50/50 of people liking it or hating it. Instead of pointing fingers to the players who use the weapon or the mentality to use the weapon lets instead push our effort over towards addressing the problem. I love to see threads like this because it can give us a chance to really reflect on what we would rather see from something that upsets people. Hopefully this doesn't completely derail this threads purpose but I'd like to see some suggestions into fixing an issue instead of complaints.

On 11/30/2020 at 1:34 PM, Merrill said:

The server would be better off if the DC-17m had more of the flamethrower vibe going for it: Wacky, fun, and debatably useful. Perhaps downgrading damage but jacking up fire-rate, making it akin to the AA-12. Or, increase magazine size, jack up the spread massively, and have it be the "vomiting bullets" gun. Anything could go, except for what we have right now.

 

Like this^
Honestly anything is up for debate on how we can change or modify the weapon.
Here's an example: During one of Joahs events, we modified the Smart Launcher to have a 1000 round magazine and Z6 fire-rate to use it as a turbo cannon.

Damage, fire-rate, spread, reload speed, magazine capacity, player movement speed, recoil, overall DPS. I'm sure I'm missing a few things, but you get the point. There's a ton we can do to anything to make it more appropriate in players eyes, all that requires is a general consensus and a suggestion posted.

[Sinister]

I think that lowering the damage and upping the magazine size would turn it from an instakill style PVP gun, into more of a breach-clear “bullet vomet” gun for clearing NPCs, like Merrill said. I basically just repeated his suggestion, so +1 to that lol. 

 

I would actually enjoy the weapon like that. More shots to kill but bigger mag = harder to use in PVP, easier on NPCs, and that puts it more in the “Flamethrower category”

[Shake]

I think the movement speed would be a great idea because you still keep the god gun but it would take a little more skill to use. i.e putting it away to get closer and having to to take time to pull it back out. I only ever see the thing used against players anyway

[Heart]

why did anyone but RC get this weapon c r i ng e

 

I like the idea of being a High RPM Low DMG weapon, so you can't 2 shot a normal 300/100 trooper. Maybe something like
300 RPM/20x6 DMG/12 Round magazines
to counteract the current stats of
110 RPM/55x6 DMG/6 Round magazines
So here's the math
1440 DMG/Magazine | ~5 shots per second | ~2.2 seconds for full magazine dispense | 120 DMG on full meatshot 

1980 DMG/Magazine | 1.9 shots per second | ~2.6 seconds for full magazine dispense | 330 DMG on full meatshot 

And give a mobility percentage, no idea how much it should be, 75% sounds good to me, but who am I but a former-SOBDE

EDIT: Here's a video showcasing what an AA-12 with similar [300] RPM sounds like 

Alternatively, we balance it to that every 2 rounds kills a 250 HP NPC, which is standard for B1s, but again, debate.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Heart

[BigIron]

I think my biggest problem with the DC-17M is the range for it, sometimes it seems like it does better ranged damage than the perma assault rifles. I do like the idea of lowering the damage but increasing the fire rate like an AA-12, but maybe take a look at its range as well for possible balancing issues. I understand people paid $85 dollars on it but the weapon shouldn't be so overpowered the meta of the server revolves around it and a 150 million credit sniper rifle.

Don't think this is me saying "NERF THE SHOTGUN" like some people on the server complain, but maybe a rebalancing to make it a bit more in-line with other weapons on the server (But not worse than them for the sake of those who bought it).

[Twrgy]

oh buddy, if you thinks its bad now but when it was just fixer and atin... SHEESH I could 2 shot anyone and 3 shot Jedis 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Twrgy

[BigBoss]

Or, just have skill and use the 15mil scatter shotgun.
2 taps players at close range if you are good and land your shots.

Ive beat the RC shotgun many times with the scatter. Doesnt always happen but its definitely doable.