Possible ARC Changes.

[Forseen]

Name: Forseen

RP Rank: Rancor 1stLT (Suggestion approved by @ Sixta who is BCMD Blitz of Rancor.)

Suggestion: Changing and balancing ARC troopers throughout the server.

Implementation: Removing the "Clone Minigun" and "Republic Launcher" from all battalion ARC whitelists and all Rancor whitelists except Heavy Ordinance and Alpha ARC.
(Leaving in Alpha ARC to give something special for the sub-unit.)

Lore:
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Advanced_Recon_Commando 
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Advanced_Recon_Commando/Legends

In these pages (Cannon and Legends) that ARC Troopers used a lot of different weapons, however the minigun and Rocket Launchers were listed as "Special Equipment" and wouldn't need to be used at all times and as listed on the page, "When heavier firepower was required, ARCs donned specialized armor to bear the weight of reciprocating quad blasters, PLX-1 portable missile launchers, or Z-6 rotary blaster cannons." However it's not listed as common equipment.

Workshop content if applicable: N/A

If you are asking to add or change a job, fill out the following

Add or Change:
(Any job modification requires all this information)

Job: 41st ARC / GC ARC / 91st ARC / 104th ARC / Dash 29 / 212th ARC / 327th ARC / 501st ARC / TC Fives / TC Echo / TC Jesse / 187th ARC / SO ARC / DU ARC / Rancor Heavy Ordnance (Replace Minigun with Z6) / Rancor Medic (Minigun) / Rancor ARC / ST ARC / Regimental Commander Jobs.

Slots: Unchanged.

Description: Unchanged.

Model: Unchanged.

Weapons: Remove "Clone Minigun" & "Republic Launcher".

Other: N/A.

[Rick_]

-1Rancor is fine, I would just remove the mini gun from battalion ARC and nothing else.

[Forseen]

1 minute ago, Rick_ said:

-1Rancor is fine, I would just remove the mini gun from battalion ARC and nothing else.

The reason I say remove it from Rancor ARC too is that it doesn't make sense for all of them to have it, the Heavy currently is just another model with the same loadout and it's not exactly fair to remove them from Battalion ARC but keep it for all Rancor when all Rancor would still still have the Westar..

[Chambers]

+1 all jobs are not created equal there's pros and cons to both.

Can someone remind me if battalion arcs get the battalion boost? 

[Forseen]

Just now, Carter said:

+1 all jobs are not created equal there's pros and cons to both.

Can someone remind me if battalion arcs get the battalion boost? 

Battalion ARC troopers receive the boost from their host battalion.
ie. 501st ARC has 501st DC-15A but not the 100 Health boost from Rancor.

[Rick_]

1 minute ago, Forseen said:

The reason I say remove it from Rancor ARC too is that it doesn't make sense for all of them to have it, the Heavy currently is just another model with the same loadout and it's not exactly fair to remove them from Battalion ARC but keep it for all Rancor when all Rancor would still still have the Westar..

Why not just give Heavy Ordnance Z6 instead of mini gun, you could also remove the rocket launcher and just have there special be a Z6.  And the only ARC class in Rancor that has the full load out is Heavy ordnance, the rest are nerfed,  I would understand to take the mini gun from the Medic though, from the ARF trooper it wouldn't make coming into Rancor the same and the normal rancor trooper wouldn't be as special.  And I personally think the rocket trooper is fine with the load out it has.

[Forseen]

10 minutes ago, Rick_ said:

Why not just give Heavy Ordnance Z6 instead of mini gun, you could also remove the rocket launcher and just have there special be a Z6.  And the only ARC class in Rancor that has the full load out is Heavy ordnance, the rest are nerfed,  I would understand to take the mini gun from the Medic though, from the ARF trooper it wouldn't make coming into Rancor the same and the normal rancor trooper wouldn't be as special.  And I personally think the rocket trooper is fine with the load out it has.

This makes a lot of sense and hence I have updated my post.

[Arroyo]

+1

[Jagger]

+1, If you want a mini-gun either be an ARC heavy Ordinance guy or a heavy trooper

Insert incredibles meme here:

"HEAVY IS HEAVY"

Plus ARCs are generally more agile troopers -- I can't see hundreds of ARCs jumping around and doing B-Hops with miniguns anything close to star wars lore. Hell, we're talking about WARHAMMER 40K at this point.

[Piff]

-1 for rocket launcher, +1 for minigun

 

[Dax]

+1 never use my minigun anyway. and as for the rocket i only ever use it to fire my 3 shots at frigates. or to rocket jump in sims

[Qal]

HUGE +1

Just keep in mind GM Assault needs to keep its Chaingun & Rocket 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Qal

[Marvel]

Mega +1

[Dennis]

-1 mini gun yes rockets no 

[Hero]

+1 not sure why the ARF’s has miniguns 

[Forseen]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

-1 mini gun yes rockets no 

 

3 hours ago, Felix said:

-1 for rocket launcher, +1 for minigun

 

Can you guys please give a reason as to why you've both said these? @Dennis @Felix

 

 

2 hours ago, Qal said:

HUGE +1

Just keep in mind GM Assault needs to keep its Chaingun & Rocket 

May I ask for what reason? @Qal

 

1 hour ago, Hero said:

+1 not sure why the ARF’s has miniguns 

ARF wasn't mentioned in this post.

[Hero]

20 minutes ago, Forseen said:

ARF wasn't mentioned in this post.

Oh. Well wouldn’t it make sense to include them in this post? 

[Forseen]

Just now, Hero said:

Oh. Well wouldn’t it make sense to include them in this post? 

They are separate and Rancor isn't responsible for ARF troopers, only ARC status and Troops.

[Gene_Starwind]

+1 rancor is stupid overpowered and no one has ever said a word about this. 

[Qal]

1 hour ago, Forseen said:

May I ask for what reason? @Qal

21st Assault is NOT an ARC JOB

[Forseen]

Just now, Qal said:

21st Assault is NOT an ARC JOB

That's not a reason, that's a factual statement and also the reason in which they were not mentioned in the list of jobs...

[Qal]

2 minutes ago, Forseen said:

That's not a reason, that's a factual statement and also the reason in which they were not mentioned in the list of jobs...

When it was first added it was considered an ARC job, I was merely putting it out there it is no longer ARC.

Aswell, 21st is one of the only battalions seen utilizing the weapon Clone Chain Gun, and it is one of the reasons it was added.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Qal

[Hero]

1 hour ago, Forseen said:

They are separate and Rancor isn't responsible for ARF troopers, only ARC status and Troops.

I’m talking about the Rancor Trooper

[Carvis]

-snip- 

After reading some people responses to this, I agree with the suggestion except the rocket launchers. I believe those should stay in the battalion arc load out. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Carvis

[Clutch]

+1 like the idea

[Elijah]

+1 GoodLuck 

[Alexz]

-1 changing to -1 because I misread this and after understanding others viewpoints I can not in good faith hurt the rest of battalion arcs. I feel this would hurt the ARC battalion as a whole and not provide the resources they need to stay relevant.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Alexz
-1

[Duck]

+1, Just buff the westar omegalul.

[Tinovious]

So.
From my understanding of the suggestion is that the ARC jobs are going to have a nerf (#NerfRancor)
Now, Where as I think it's a very ideal suggestion nerf Rancor as you know, Rancor seems very OP in terms of their loads and such. You guys get a DC-17 that can clap people with ease, I believe. I also think that it is condescending to other battalion ARC's that their respected BCMD's were not spoke about too in terms of this suggestion. In terms of battalion ARC, They get the clone minigun, the westar M-5, Dualies and the rocket launcher. Furthermore, In my eyes. These ARC Troopers may depend on these load outs and kit. Rancor, is of course in charge in training these battalion ARC's Rancor is quite well in charge of that, But these BCMD's, or ARCL's/ARCO's clear the future ARC Trainee's to become fully fledged ARC's of their respected battalions. So! These certain individuals are obviously going to want that sweet kit and be the OP ones of their battalions, Of course they should! They're ARC's! So, In reality I think it's unfair that these BCMD's or ARC's leaders never were spoken too to have changes to their jobs. Maybe what you should do is Nerf Rancor itself; instead of nerfing the Battalion ARC's as Rancor ARC's are significantly more powerful than Ordinary ARC's. Communication is key and it should've been discussed with these battalions instead of throwing the suggestion up.

I do wish you luck in this though. Love you Forseen ❤️
-1

Edited January 8, 2020 by Tinovious

[Bro]

-1

[Freck]

+1 seems logical

[Forseen]

I love you and all @Tinovious but I'd have to disagree? Rancor has nothing near as strong as any battalion ARC? The only class in Rancor with the Battalion ARC loadout is the Heavy Ordinance trooper, which means all battalion ARC troopers realistically hold the same capabilities as a Heavy Trooper.

Now one thing I agree with that you stated was the fact that the battalion ARC's deserve something a little stronger and that can always be arrange afterwards.

Also, I have spoken to Sanchez and Dragon on the fact that this would affect all battalion ARCs as well as Rancor ARCs. I would have said that in the channel we were in earlier but I kept having people talk over me..

[ISNIFFPROPANE]

Why are you removing it from regimental jobs?

Pretty sure you need to talk to high command about that 

Edited January 8, 2020 by ISNIFFPROPANE

[Forseen]

2 hours ago, ISNIFFPROPANE said:

Why are you removing it from regimental jobs?

Pretty sure you need to talk to high command about that 

Sanchez gave me the okay to post it. If I needed to speak to High Command or BCMDs of other battalions, he would have told me to do so before posting it.

[Mitchell]

Im 50/50 on this suggestion.
Removing the clone minigun is fine, but I feel like a powershift instead of a complete nerf is better IMO.
What I suggest is that they remove the clone minigun, and buff the Westar of ARC troopers, Either a Damage or Firerate buff would be good to balance it out some more.
Rockets should stay, as in lore the Westar-M5 was able to have an under barrel rocket attachment. We don't have noobtubes on the server but the rocket is a close second.

@ ForseenThoughts on this?

[Tinovious]

9 hours ago, Forseen said:

I love you and all @Tinovious but I'd have to disagree? Rancor has nothing near as strong as any battalion ARC? The only class in Rancor with the Battalion ARC loadout is the Heavy Ordinance trooper, which means all battalion ARC troopers realistically hold the same capabilities as a Heavy Trooper.

Now one thing I agree with that you stated was the fact that the battalion ARC's deserve something a little stronger and that can always be arrange afterwards.

Also, I have spoken to Sanchez and Dragon on the fact that this would affect all battalion ARCs as well as Rancor ARCs. I would have said that in the channel we were in earlier but I kept having people talk over me..

Fair enough brother, you've swindled me with your wise words and your massive weebshit tidd~ Eyes! Going to keep it at a -1 though. Good luck homie ❤️

Edited January 8, 2020 by Tinovious

[Merrill]

2 minutes ago, Mitchel said:

What I suggest is that they remove the clone minigun, and buff the Westar of ARC troopers, Either a Damage or Firerate buff would be good to balance it out some more.
Rockets should stay, as in lore the Westar-M5 was able to have an under barrel rocket attachment. We don't have noobtubes on the server but the rocket is a close second.

I agree with this idea. ARCs aren't necessarily supposed to masters of CQC, far range marksmanship, and heavy demolitions all together at the same time, but what they do have, the ARCs are supposed to be really good at. So, with removal of the Chaingun being a strong possibility, a counter-buff for the Westar encourages ARCs to focus on marksmanship as their strong point. As for Rocket underbarrels, tbh I feel there aren't enough rockets on jobs on the server, considering they are the only way to do damage to frigates besides turrets and vehicles, not to mention destruction of pods or barricades.

[Pythin]

Personally I think you can’t just say to update Arc’s in battalions that you aren’t even in. 
 

Also I am all for nerfing some the rancor Troops loadouts. 
 

So I am gonna -1 and you should make one just for rancor. UNLESS you get other people approval. Cause what if they don’t want their loadouts changed? You can’t do it without their say.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Pythin

[Rose]

-1 all ARC's are special leave it as is

 

[Pyle]

Suggestion passes and chain-gun and launcher are removed from Battalion ARC's.

Server - "Where are all the Battalion ARC's?"

 

-1. People join jobs because they have decent incentives. Guarantee you're not gonna see many Battalion ARC's if this passes. If this doesn't scream entitlement, idk what does.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Pyle

[aWildSparks]

+1 Honestly doesn't make sense to have ARC troopers equipped with both Z6 and Rockets... Lore didn't have them neither should we. I would add, if ARC don't already have them, give them all dual DC-17s

[Pyle]

27 minutes ago, aWildSparks said:

+1 Honestly doesn't make sense to have ARC troopers equipped with both Z6 and Rockets... Lore didn't have them neither should we. I would add, if ARC don't already have them, give them all dual DC-17s

They aren't z6's. I'd +1 if they have z6's.

[Holo]

-1

[aWildSparks]

3 minutes ago, Pyle said:

They aren't z6's. I'd +1 if they have z6's.

Ah yeah I forgot it was the over the shoulder minigun. I'm still gunna +1 it tho

[MrNoe]

-1

[Daytona211]

+1 we should have never been given the clone minigun on all jobs. 

[Piff]

21 hours ago, Forseen said:

 

Can you guys please give a reason as to why you've both said these? @Dennis @Felix

 

 

May I ask for what reason? @Qal

 

ARF wasn't mentioned in this post.

Well in my opinion, Miniguns like someone else said before aren't needed for ARC's and instead should be left for Heavies, Than rocket launchers are useful if used right and i think a rocket launcher should stay since not many troopers have rocket launchers and it would be nice to have more troopers with them since they aren't the biggest damage dealers and mostly used for ships

[Egg]

-1 for touching all battalions. They are massively limited in their numbers and rancor should not have the authority to edit battalion loadouts that are not their own without communicating with those battalions beforehand. Leave my arcs alone.

In removing these things from battalion arc jobs, it takes away anything that makes them useful or unique. Without the rocket or chaingun, it literally becomes a trooper with a westar instead of a dc15.

[Korm]

I'll +1 if I can wipe arc training.

[Vex]

41 minutes ago, Egg said:

-1 for touching all battalions. They are massively limited in their numbers and rancor should not have the authority to edit battalion loadouts that are not their own without communicating with those battalions beforehand. Leave my arcs alone.

In removing these things from battalion arc jobs, it takes away anything that makes them useful or unique. Without the rocket or chaingun, it literally becomes a trooper with a westar instead of a dc15.

-1

100% agree with Egg, accepting a large nerf when i only have 5 guys in the first place seems a little wacky, for one All Batt ARC's are rarely on at the same time together, and in another point, The jobs would be left with the default weak westar, effectively making them basic troopers Not to mention, one of our jobs is GC ARC, which are allowed special weapons like this already, the only difference is the chaingun. In short Remove the Chaingun keep the rockets, because it seems like you didn't even evaluate how the batt ARC were using these weapons  and i hope that makes sense Forseen.

[Alexz]

21 hours ago, Alexz said:

-1 changing to -1 because I misread this and after understanding others viewpoints I can not in good faith hurt the rest of battalion arcs. I feel this would hurt the ARC battalion as a whole and not provide the resources they need to stay relevant.

changed vote from +1 to -1

[Striker]

Strong -1 from me for the battalion ARC portion. (For RANCOR +1 I guess? I'm not in RANCOR and quite frankly I don't really care y'all can do as you wish)
ARC training is a tough training to get. It takes time not to mention it is on a very strict schedule. This is not a training that you complete in a day (there have even been people I have even known to take upwards of a month completing their ARC). Then you take that fact along with battalion ARC already taking a pretty big hit from RANCOR slots wise (a reduction from 10 to 6 slots), and I'd say ARC is balanced as it is at it's current state.
If this suggestion were to pass it would literally mean the actual death of battalion ARC. Period. What is the point of working to actually do ARC training at that point? You have to take a training which for some takes a while, fight with 6 others for a slot, and on TOP of that the job is worthless?? Like come on, its a tad bit ridiculous to be honest. The job would no longer be appealing in the slightest. While in RANCOR there are unlimited slots, you get to be an actual job specialization as an ARC (Medic, engineer, etc.), and you have an elite company based around ARC as a direct step up from standard ARC. 
I'd say if it takes any longer than a single day of training for any job, the payout better be good. And in this case, the payout would literally be, sorry to say, garbage. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Striker

[Ragen]

-1 from me i mean just because your battalion has some weapons that you dont want you decide to remove it from all other arcs so that everyone is fair well heres the coffee take a smell life isent fair battalion worked hard for their jobs and worked hard to train with their weapons heck look at dooms unit they have shields and z-6 and you dont think thats op then we have thire he is a arc job with the loadout as well as a shield from when he was considered a riot trooper so do what you want with this but all im going to say is that if it envoles other arcs why not ask their opinion before you post this that way you see if we wanted this change and thus we have a good communication 

[Piff]

13 minutes ago, Ragen said:

-1 from me i mean just because your battalion has some weapons that you dont want you decide to remove it from all other arcs so that everyone is fair well heres the coffee take a smell life isent fair battalion worked hard for their jobs and worked hard to train with their weapons heck look at dooms unit they have shields and z-6 and you dont think thats op then we have thire he is a arc job with the loadout as well as a shield from when he was considered a riot trooper so do what you want with this but all im going to say is that if it envoles other arcs why not ask their opinion before you post this that way you see if we wanted this change and thus we have a good communication 

 

5 hours ago, Striker said:

Strong -1 from me for the battalion ARC portion. (For RANCOR +1 I guess? I'm not in RANCOR and quite frankly I don't really care y'all can do as you wish)
ARC training is a tough training to get. It takes time not to mention it is on a very strict schedule. This is not a training that you complete in a day (there have even been people I have even known to take upwards of a month completing their ARC). Then you take that fact along with battalion ARC already taking a pretty big hit from RANCOR slots wise (a reduction from 10 to 6 slots), and I'd say ARC is balanced as it is at it's current state.
If this suggestion were to pass it would literally mean the actual death of battalion ARC. Period. What is the point of working to actually do ARC training at that point? You have to take a training which for some takes a while, fight with 6 others for a slot, and on TOP of that the job is worthless?? Like come on, its a tad bit ridiculous to be honest. The job would no longer be appealing in the slightest. While in RANCOR there are unlimited slots, you get to be an actual job specialization as an ARC (Medic, engineer, etc.), and you have an elite company based around ARC as a direct step up from standard ARC. 
I'd say if it takes any longer than a single day of training for any job, the payout better be good. And in this case, the payout would literally be, sorry to say, garbage. 

Changing vote from +1 to -1

[Piff]

11 hours ago, Korm said:

I'll +1 if I can wipe arc training.

That’ll become literal hell for Rancor again, 2 hour long trainings or longer again lmao

[syntax]

+1 just because they have westars and dual dc17s

Edited January 9, 2020 by kojak

[Comics]

4 hours ago, kojak said:

I meannn Battalion Arcs arent lore so their loadout should be up for debate. You also have to remember that they have a westar and dual 17s there is no reason they should have a minigun too. Rocket launcher I understand but nah fam.

Fat +1

Did you ever watch this show?

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Comics

[CannonBanned]

+1 Good Luck

[ISNIFFPROPANE]

Sorry brother people are bringing up a lot of good points on how this would take away a lot from other battalions... and it didn't really seem like you talked to them. There's already a cap on the job so it's not like everyone's running around with rocket launcher nd shit like that... Also I don't see why it has to be removed from the regimental jobs? anyways it doesn't seem necessary so it's gonna be a -1.

Edited January 9, 2020 by ISNIFFPROPANE

[Dubz]

Would rocket troopers keep Rockets?

[Marvel]

19 minutes ago, Dubz said:

Would rocket troopers keep Rockets?

I would imagine so

[Nade Jones]

ARC slots in battalions got nerfed, no need for another nerf

[BigZach]

-1

[Scribbles]

-1.

[Unkindled]

-1

[Alexz]

On 1/9/2020 at 8:27 AM, kojak said:

+1 just because they have westars and dual dc17s

How does dual dc 17s even make ARC better? They are sub par at best

[Dubz]

 -1

While I understand that a big part of this is to help Optimize the ARC Jobs, something that does indeed need an Optimization, it takes away far more than it gives, and it causes Rancor to have a less Optimized Weapon-set than it currently does. The issue of Miniguns and Rocket Launchers being on a Recon Battalion is an Issue many have had, for a very long time. Not to mention, the Initial post doesn't bring up Rocket Troopers within Rancor, despite a change like this severely affecting Rocket Troopers. My Disagreement with the change, isn't a disagreement over the Jobs changing, but, rather what would be changing with it. 

I'd argue that Classes like the Rancor Medic, and your Standard ARC Trooper, as well as Battalion Equivalents work well with the Minigun. While it's not by any means Realistic, or Lore friendly, both are hard in Gmod, and removing something because Lucas said so has been an issue most have had with Star Wars for ages at this point, and it's not an issue SR should likely need to deal with as well. As strange as it is, The Mingun works well in most situations, and, ARC's are likely some of the best people to handle a Dangerous weapon. The Rocket Launcher is a lot harder to argue for, however it's often a big draw in for a lot of people. As a 212th Commander on another Server, I can tell you how much of a fan a lot of people can be over a Big Fuck off Gun as Explosive as a Rocket Launcher, even with it still needing a Buff. If it became a situation where the CY constantly had Rockets flying every time a Muni flew over Anaxes it would be different. Where it's at currently, I respect your opinions, however I don't think we should take away the Three fun shots, only a handful of Jobs get to have. I also Respect the Imitative.

[Dax]

So hear me out on this, underbarrel grenade launcher for ARC trooper westar m5. Obviously it would need development in a few areas (if its even possible) it would ideally have a unique model to reflect the fact that it has an underbarrel GL, and as far as how it would work, hopefully someone smarter than me can figure that out. I know the functionality for grenade launchers exist within gmod, with the MP7s alternate fire mode being a grenade launcher. My thought was we could cycle through the fire modes on the westar using E+R, however I dont know how that would work. Regardless development aside i think this could be an addition to the original suggestion, instead of just removing the rocket launcher we replace it with this hypothetical new weapon. either way, balance, lore, all that aside... grenade launchers are bad ass. 

[Rohan]

On 1/9/2020 at 7:52 AM, Striker said:

This is not a training that you complete in a day (there have even been people I have even known to take upwards of a month completing their ARC).

A mans did nearly 3 months due to timing of the ARC trainings

-1 for the suggestion btw

[Marvel]

On 1/11/2020 at 12:51 AM, Dax said:

So hear me out on this, underbarrel grenade launcher for ARC trooper westar m5. Obviously it would need development in a few areas (if its even possible) it would ideally have a unique model to reflect the fact that it has an underbarrel GL, and as far as how it would work, hopefully someone smarter than me can figure that out. I know the functionality for grenade launchers exist within gmod, with the MP7s alternate fire mode being a grenade launcher. My thought was we could cycle through the fire modes on the westar using E+R, however I dont know how that would work. Regardless development aside i think this could be an addition to the original suggestion, instead of just removing the rocket launcher we replace it with this hypothetical new weapon. either way, balance, lore, all that aside... grenade launchers are bad ass. 

Or just make it a separate weapon like RC have the Anti-Armor Attachment for their DC-17M (Sadly its a rocket launcher when it should be a grenade launcher)

[Rick_]

Forgot to change to a +1 earlier lol. +1

[justuscloud5]

I agree with Egg, Vex and Drayyen I think this is a small brain move and pushes people away from ARC if anything ot would push people towards ARF or support. All ARCs would have a westar while ARF/support would have a republic sniper and a launcher, then on top of that you could find a replacement in the westar with the E11D or DL-44 and be very very good and possible outclass ARCs.

[Inosuke]

+1 for removing rocket launcher

-1 for removing clone minigun

i could care a less about the rocket, however the minigun is what kinda makes us BAT ARCs special (or atleast a part of it).

[Merrill]

Changing to -1 for everything as well. I had not realized before that literally no one had been talked to about this idea.

[Dragon]

Moved to Pending

[Dragon]

Denied by Intel Team

Reasons Given by voting members

1. Not Needed

2. A lot of community disagreement