Modify KU Weapons Specialist loadout and name

[Misfit]

Name: Misfit

RP Rank: XO

Suggestion: Change KU Heavy Weapons Specialist loadout and name to "Weapons Specialist"

Implementation: KU Heavy/ weapons specialist whatever is extremely useless as is seeing as the z6 is dog water trash, especially when you have a westar at hand. To counter this i would like to remove the z6 as a whole and add a DC-15x sniper and a clone minigun. This wont be that bug of a change because in the scheme of things the westar is still much better than both BUT it will finally give a use to the job and KU as a whole instead of just being the job nobody wants or uses. also the name change will make the weapons themselves fit more considering its main role isnt being a heavy anymore.

Lore: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Keller's_unit

Workshop content if applicable:
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If you are asking to add or change a job, fill out the following

Add or Change: Remove the z6 from weapons specialist and add Clone Minigun and DC-15x as replacement weapons and name to "Weapons Specialist"
(Any job modification requires all this information)

Job: Kellers Unit Heavy Weapons Specialist

Slots:  3

Description: The KU Weapons Specialist is adapt in not only 1 but 2 weapon classes giving the ability to attack from a far and up close with their DC-15x sniper and Clone Minigun respectfully. It is the more underrated Class in KUs arsenal yet gets the job done just as well as the others.

Weapons: “chaingun_servius” and “rw_sw_dc15x”
 

Other: atleast  add the sniper. this job has not been used since KU was full and KU hasn’t been full for atleast a year and a half. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Misfit

[Tec]

+1

KU desperately needs an update to some of their jobs, especially this one. We're a sub-unit really left in the server's past which is super evident by this job. KU itself requires ARC training yet the Heavy Specialist job is just a watered down ARC loud out and is clearly outclassed by the other two jobs. I hope this can put the job to better use and maybe bring some more people to the unit.

[Marvel]

The clone mini gun I can sorta get behind but not the DC-15x. I can see one or other. What you are suggesting isn’t you asking to trade one thing for another but rather you are asking for more in return. Not only that but this creates a whole new load out on the server that doesn't really make sense. Like a sniper and a mini gun is an extremely strange combo. Idk I personally can’t really get behind the current suggestion

[CloneWick]

+1, no one would ever look at KU and choose the weapon specialist, very outdated job.
The westar will still be used over the other two guns in most situations, lives up to the name "Weapon specialist" more.
Just replacing the Z-6 with one gun wouldn't really fix the issue of it being a very unwanted job by any people wanting to be KU.

Edited February 25, 2022 by CloneWick

[BlueBeetle]

35 minutes ago, Marvel said:

The clone mini gun I can sorta get behind but not the DC-15x. I can see one or other. What you are suggesting isn’t you asking to trade one thing for another but rather you are asking for more in return. Not only that but this creates a whole new load out on the server that doesn't really make sense. Like a sniper and a mini gun is an extremely strange combo. Idk I personally can’t really get behind the current suggestion

I kind of agree with Marvel here. I haven't necessarily played a regiment that used Z6s since DU in 2020, but back then I barely used it in comparison to the basic DC-15A and DC-15S. The clone minigun I can agree with. As for the DC-15X sniper, that may be a little too much. If it's a Heavy Specialist job, why would they need sniper rifles? Miniguns would sort of fill that "heavy" emphasis. If they gave Heavy Specialist another strong weapon to go with it, without it becoming too overpowered then perhaps it could work. Maybe a shield like that of the Doom's Unit?

I do agree with you on the fact that KU could add an ARF regiment to fix it, as nothing is wrong with a little more diversity in terms of sub-battalion groups, especially KU.

I could be completely wrong on all fronts here, not being as experienced or knowledgable about every battalion and regiment. But I'm just throwing whatever cents I can to the conversation to maybe bring points up.

For now, I'll give it a neutral due to my lack of major knowledge within sub-battalions like the KU. I hope whatever I spouted out made sense.

Edited February 25, 2022 by MrNeptoon

[Misfit]

54 minutes ago, Marvel said:

The clone mini gun I can sorta get behind but not the DC-15x. I can see one or other. What you are suggesting isn’t you asking to trade one thing for another but rather you are asking for more in return. Not only that but this creates a whole new load out on the server that doesn't really make sense. Like a sniper and a mini gun is an extremely strange combo. Idk I personally can’t really get behind the current suggestion

 

22 minutes ago, MrNeptoon said:

The clone minigun I can agree with. As for the DC-15X sniper, that may be a little too much. If it's a Heavy Specialist job, why would they need sniper rifles? Miniguns would sort of fill that "heavy" emphasis. If they gave Heavy Specialist another strong weapon to go with it, without it becoming too overpowered then perhaps it could work. Maybe a shield like that of the Doom's Unit?

i might not have said it (ima change that after i post this) but i want to rename it also to just simply "Weapons Specialist" removing the heavy part entirely. The main idea is to combine ARC and ARF into one single job kinda like how the support job use to be a Medic, Pilot and ENG combo. We chose these weapons specifically mainly because they arent overpowered in any aspect yet also still more useful than a Z6 in every situation. also from a somewhat lore standpoint back in the original  battlefront games, 21st was seen with the Clone Minigun

[BlueBeetle]

3 minutes ago, Misfit said:

 

i might not have said it (ima change that after i post this) but i want to rename it also to just simply "Weapons Specialist" removing the heavy part entirely. The main idea is to combine ARC and ARF into one single job kinda like how the support job use to be a Medic, Pilot and ENG combo. We chose these weapons specifically mainly because they arent overpowered in any aspect yet also still more useful than a Z6 in every situation. also from a somewhat lore standpoint back in the original  battlefront games, 21st was seen with the Clone Minigun

Ah, alright that makes a little more sense. If the name of the job was simply called "Weapons Specialist," and clones needed to get their normal training for KU in addition to ARF training, then yes. I feel like that would make sense. From a lore standpoint, giving the Weapons Specialist a Clone Minigun instead of a Z-6 also makes more sense to me.

I think honestly with this clarification, I'll give it a +1. It seems more logical, so long as the proper trainings are given, and possibly a little more time deciding who is fit to be a Weapons Specialist. It's better than to just give people the job with the training just so they can have both ARC and ARF loadouts for shits and giggles.

[Gadget]

As many have stated, the one or the other scenario is most likely.

And I support the statement of adding yhe sniper over the Z6.

 

I really want the Z6 changed as it is ABSOLUTE DOG WATER.  It used to be so hood and not its just disappointing. Its too inaccurate to be reliable, point-blank is alright.

 

Anyway, +1

[Conrad]

Curious, why not ask for something like a ENG loadout for KU, that way you have medic, engineer/pilot, and jet trooper? Why did you take this course of action?

[Misfit]

35 minutes ago, Conrad said:

Curious, why not ask for something like a ENG loadout for KU, that way you have medic, engineer/pilot, and jet trooper? Why did you take this course of action?

IF POSSIBLE im gonna strive to get KU Support/Medic back to how it was before (Medkit + Armor drop) after this post. Otherwise we currently have a full SO Support branch and a half full GM Support branch to cover us on the armor side so health and other parts of the battalion/KU are being focused on as of now. also our Jet Troopers Double as pilots seeing as Support is now just a medic

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Misfit

[Conrad]

2 hours ago, Misfit said:

IF POSSIBLE im gonna strive to get KU Support/Medic back to how it was before (Medkit + Armor drop) after this post.

 

This is beyond over powered and should not in any way shape or form ever happen. I can tell you right now this will be one of the hardest -1 i have ever given and completely destroys the reason for having different classes on the server. Being able to give out health and armor will create a self sufficient army of one type situation, which should not be how clones operate.

-1 for the suggestion overall. This just feels like we want to be special and strong. Having a class thats heavy and ARF together, another thats MED and ENG together. Thats just too much for any normal trooper job. Only things that get loadouts like this are REG and Marshall. If this gets accepted then we'll just create an arms race of making the most OP class job on the server.

[Jad]

Unfortunately I can't support this suggestion as I don't think you fully understand how the current class balancing works or why it was implemented. I'd recommend taking some notes based on other job classes and seeing why they are the way they are before making adjustments.  It's perfectly fine to think outside the box and try to change things, just always keep in mind as to why things were made that way in the first place.

Edit: If the concern is the Z-6 and it's performance. Why not make a suggestion regarding the Z-6 itself.

[Aeon]

Marvel has a Point its gonna look like a custom store job from DarkRP if you add both i would say as a weapon specialist one or the other but KU doesnt get a whole lot of love and this is needed. 

-1 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Aeon

[Misfit]

3 hours ago, Aeon said:

Marvel has a Point its gonna look like a custom store job from DarkRP if you add both i would say as a weapon specialist one or the other but KU doesnt get a whole lot of love and this is needed. 

-1 

explain this im confused

 

3 hours ago, Jad said:

Unfortunately I can't support this suggestion as I don't think you fully understand how the current class balancing works or why it was implemented. I'd recommend taking some notes based on other job classes and seeing why they are the way they are before making adjustments.  It's perfectly fine to think outside the box and try to change things, just always keep in mind as to why things were made that way in the first place.

Edit: If the concern is the Z-6 and it's performance. Why not make a suggestion regarding the Z-6 itself.

what would or could we change about it? like you said its made that way for a reason and the mian problem now is its more of a CQC weapon with low damage, a big mag and high fire rate compared to what it use to be.

 

3 hours ago, Conrad said:

This is beyond over powered and should not in any way shape or form ever happen. I can tell you right now this will be one of the hardest -1 i have ever given and completely destroys the reason for having different classes on the server. Being able to give out health and armor will create a self sufficient army of one type situation, which should not be how clones operate.

-1 for the suggestion overall. This just feels like we want to be special and strong. Having a class thats heavy and ARF together, another thats MED and ENG together. Thats just too much for any normal trooper job. Only things that get loadouts like this are REG and Marshall. If this gets accepted then we'll just create an arms race of making the most OP class job on the server.

the support change was only an idea and from your response i already see its more than likely not possible.

As for the main suggestion, i want KU to have something more than nothing. 2ndAC has 10 flying healers (medic and support) and correct me if im wrong but most of wolfpack have jetpacks. the best thing KU has is 3 JT members and besides that, theres 0 allure to the 10 man sub unit. i dont want just one or the other because it would just make it a Sharpshooter class or an ARC class, plus its only 3 slots for the job and KU doesnt get more than 4 members including myself at a time. I understand it over-poweredness of it and honestly if needed you can drop it down to 1 slot and name the job Captain Charger, adding 1 more job slot to Medic and JT but if anything at all i want KU to have something more unique than just the name.

[Guac]

3 minutes ago, Misfit said:

As for the main suggestion, i want KU to have something more than nothing. 2ndAC has 10 flying healers (medic and support) and correct me if im wrong but most of wolfpack have jetpacks. the best thing KU has is 3 JT members and besides that, theres 0 allure to the 10 man sub unit. i dont want just one or the other because it would just make it a Sharpshooter class or an ARC class, plus its only 3 slots for the job and KU doesnt get more than 4 members including myself at a time. I understand it over-poweredness of it and honestly if needed you can drop it down to 1 slot and name the job Captain Charger, adding 1 more job slot to Medic and JT but if anything at all i want KU to have something more unique than just the name.

Westar

[Misfit]

12 minutes ago, Guac said:

Westar

SO ARC, Cloak and westar

[Otter]

 -1 the Westar is already powerful

[Jad]

23 minutes ago, Misfit said:

what would or could we change about it? like you said its made that way for a reason and the mian problem now is its more of a CQC weapon with low damage, a big mag and high fire rate compared to what it use to be.

That's a discussion best saved for an entirely different suggestion, I'd rather not derail your suggestion here.

[Clutch]

-1 you are suggesting that we give the entire ARC loadout and a sniper to a KU job that isn't ARC whitelist. I do think that we should change the job to make it better but I don't think the current suggestion is it.

[Mystic]

I love ya but this is BARELY a -1 from me. You're asking to give the entire ARC loadout to the weapon specialist. Might as well ask for a KU ARC lol. Having the Westar, the ARF Sniper and the Clone Minigun is a little ridiculous for a non ARC whitelist. Considering we already have an ARC regiment this seems a bit like it'd take away from the ARC job that already has space. I can see the minigun but the sniper is overkill and the Clone minigun still isnt a reason to put away the Westar. adding any gun to the weapon specialist  will still be outshined by the westar

Edited February 26, 2022 by Mystik
Rewording

[Mystic]

4 minutes ago, Mystik said:

I love ya but this is a -1 from me. You're asking to give the entire ARC loadout to the weapon specialist. Might as well ask for a KU ARC lol. Having the Westar, the ARF Sniper and the Clone Minigun is a little ridiculous for a non ARC whitelist. Considering we already have an ARC regiment this seems a bit like it'd take away from the ARC job that already has space 

Not editing again  but, I 100% agree the whitelist should be updated. However i don't think this is the right path. You're asking for it to be adjusted or potentially removed in the future due to its versatility and limited spaces.

[Deathtiger]

-1 

[Joshua]

+1 as I see it. Right now there is no reason except Jet Trooper to join KU. Maybe the Sniper rifle is overkill I agrre with that, but changing the Z-6 with the Minigun isnt that bad considering it is only 3 slots. It is not overpowered either as there are more than enough subunits that have their fair share of gimmicks

[Hanz]

10 minutes ago, Joshua said:

+1 as I see it. Right now there is no reason except Jet Trooper to join KU. Maybe the Sniper rifle is overkill I agrre with that, but changing the Z-6 with the Minigun isnt that bad considering it is only 3 slots. It is not overpowered either as there are more than enough subunits that have their fair share of gimmicks

Having Jet Troopers is a huge reason to join a sub-unit. I hate seeing 21st try to buff their sub-units all the time. Wolfpack is strong because its the only sub-unit the 104th gets. 2ndAC is only Jetpacks and Medics which is very good, but they have limited slots. SO literally gets cloaks, something unique to it, SOBDE, and some BH jobs, then they get a whole sub-unit with the westar and Jetpacks. -1

[Joshua]

5 minutes ago, Hanz said:

Having Jet Troopers is a huge reason to join a sub-unit. I hate seeing 21st try to buff their sub-units all the time. Wolfpack is strong because its the only sub-unit the 104th gets. 2ndAC is only Jetpacks and Medics which is very good, but they have limited slots. SO literally gets cloaks, something unique to it, SOBDE, and some BH jobs, then they get a whole sub-unit with the westar and Jetpacks. -1

What do you even mean trying to buff them all the time. We keep getting shit stripped from us cause it is always considered OP??? KU is the most outdated Subunit in teh game. Keller's helmet looks like it was made with paint when Gmod first came out.

 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Joshua

[CloneWick]

3 minutes ago, Hanz said:

I hate seeing 21st try to buff their sub-units all the time.

lol???
because we never get our buffs, KU is very out of date and the only desirable job is the jetpack guy! No one  wants the heavy specialist AT ALL!!! This is the most obnoxious thing anyone has said in this thread at all

[Mystic]

5 minutes ago, Hanz said:

Having Jet Troopers is a huge reason to join a sub-unit. I hate seeing 21st try to buff their sub-units all the time. Wolfpack is strong because its the only sub-unit the 104th gets. 2ndAC is only Jetpacks and Medics which is very good, but they have limited slots. SO literally gets cloaks, something unique to it, SOBDE, and some BH jobs, then they get a whole sub-unit with the westar and Jetpacks. -1

I agree with your -1 but theres some things you need to know... cloaks are useless outside of RP scenarios. you cant shoot cloaked and all it lets you do is sneak past enemies to recon and thats under certain circumstances since most RP scenarios usually have someone who can detect cloaks be it sith or commandos. KU is outdated i dont think this is the buff they need but it is painful having a few slots in a sub unit and having that be the only reason to join. It means youll never have more people outside just the ones on that whitelist. 21st is going to need buffed eventually whether its wanted or not. KU is a sign of this. whitelists will need updated and balancing may change in the future. 

[Hanz]

2 hours ago, Mystik said:

cloaks are useless outside of RP scenarios. you cant shoot cloaked and all it lets you do is sneak past enemies to recon and thats under certain circumstances since most RP scenarios usually have someone who can detect cloaks be it sith or commandos.

This is an RP server. There are constantly Rp situations happening all the time. I understand a cloak might not be as useful to a clone as a Bounty Hunter but Sith and Commandos are not used in most circumstances at all.

[Mystic]

37 minutes ago, Hanz said:

This is an RP server. There are constantly Rp situations happening all the time. I understand a cloak might not be as useful to a clone as a Bounty Hunter but Sith and Commandos are not used in most circumstances at all.

i digress. Ask anyone in SO currently, the amount of times we can cloak a month so far has been countable on two hands. the situations never arise and times we can use them are never prevalent. This would be for another topic though, Let's just agree to disagree and make this already messy forums post a little less messy. Sorry for bringing it out this far. It is mostly opinionated anyways ! :) <3

 

[Aeon]

22 hours ago, Misfit said:

explain this im confused

DarkRP custom job has too many weapons it doesn't need.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Aeon

[Comics]

it's seems like you have genuinely no idea what you want. I dunno maybe come up with an actual idea that doesn't go completely against server balance before you start making suggestions

You seem to think magically adding random shit to your subunit will fix it's failings and that's just not true at all.
I think you're better off approaching High Command & the GM team to see how you can expand the role of cloaking within the server. the GM team might even appreciate you bringing along some ideas for events or encounters which require cloaking to happen. It is the only group except Omega who can cloak so clearly it is an extremely unique subunit, I don't think forcing it in line with 2ndAC or WP is gonna save you it'll make it far less appealing probably.

-1, this is some in house batt shit ngl

Edited February 28, 2022 by Comics

[Brooklyn]

-1

[Dyn]

I think addressing the role of heavy as a whole on the server is a good idea. Giving KU Weapon Spec a minigun + a sniper though... gonna have to say nah on that one. I understand your intention to make it a weapon master-esque job, but it just doesn't really fit.  -1

[TheCyan]

On 2/26/2022 at 2:35 PM, Hanz said:

Having Jet Troopers is a huge reason to join a sub-unit. I hate seeing 21st try to buff their sub-units all the time. Wolfpack is strong because its the only sub-unit the 104th gets. 2ndAC is only Jetpacks and Medics which is very good, but they have limited slots. SO literally gets cloaks, something unique to it, SOBDE, and some BH jobs, then they get a whole sub-unit with the westar and Jetpacks. -1

Hanz is so big brain we cant understand him sometimes.

I kinda agree with Hanz's point of constantly trying to buff sub-units all the time. 

21stGM has 2 units in it, SO and KU. They dont have every single branch in both units because the units are meant to fill different roles. I think it is an entirely different discussion on how to fix this balance better (imo, get rid of SO SUP, add SUP to KU and remove WS but that's not relevant). KU is meant to be (as I see it) as fast paced, kind of "guard breaker" unit in support of GM, and SO is meant for infiltration. I believe that swapping the Z6 for a more mobile weapon (like the 15x) would be beneficial for the job. However, I believe the core issue with feeling that KU (and in some areas SO) is lacking is the lack of understanding as to how the 21st is supposed to be balanced between sub units.

[Bane]

As a former Keller, +1

[Guac]

I've changed my mind on this. I don't think a change in this way is warranted.

-1

[Jad]

Unfortunately, this suggestion has been DENIED.

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