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Separating GMs from Staff!


Ryzen

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Name: 91st Recon ENG Sgt. Ryzen

Suggestion: My suggestion is the separation between Gamemasters and staff. At the moment, the staff has enough to do as it is from training cadets to whitelisting, to dealing with minges etc. At the moment, the only people who can run events are staff.  It takes time to set up events, especially really good ones and I feel that personally, the quality of events have dropped quite a bit. Just the other day a super battle droid and commander droid attacked the base and that was it. They injured the senator on-base and were destroyed and that was the event. My suggestion is that GM should be accessible to all who wish to become gamemasters but, maybe since those positions have the capabilities of spawning in things and even crashing the server if messed with too much, there should be a harder or maybe longer process for non-staff to become a gamemaster. Again, the reason I stress this is that there are many people in the SWRP community who can make good events but, do not have the time or maybe do not have the interest to become staff. If the server is to continue to do well and have fun, enjoyable events, it will require a new wave of GMs to help strengthen the GM team. The GM team now is not fulfilling the needs of the server and the events that are being done are not really that good. Droids come, they attack the base. Droids dressed as clones come, they attack us and try and destroy the generator. There needs to be more variation. I am not trying to bash the gamemasters because I understand it is a stressful job and very time consuming but, I am just saying that events would be a lot better if we had a larger pool of people in the GMs and they would be occurring more frequently. Thank you for taking my idea into consideration and taking the time to read my suggestion.

Implementation: It would require new D3A ranks but, those can be made rather easily. A more rigorous process for those who do not staff to get into GM such as maybe shadowing or helping 5 events and leading 2 or 3 on your own. This way, the leaders of the GM department can really see who are the good gamemasters and who are the bad ones among the players that would apply.

Lore: N/A

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4 minutes ago, Fizzik said:

Been asked before and never will happen but I will still +1

I figured that much however, I am sure that this is not the first time there has been an issue with the lack of events or lack of quality of events or both. We need to find a real solution rather than using temporary solutions.

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This completely bypasses the point of being staff. You would get Senior Admin powers without any of the responsibilities. It would cause a bunch of people who main GM to leave and would be unfair to the rest. 

It was denied in the past for the same reason. 

If you want to be a game master join staff and work your way up. 

-1

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27 minutes ago, Ryzen said:

there are many people in the SWRP community who can make good events but, do not have the time or maybe do not have the interest to become staff

If they dont have the time and interest in something that is required for you to be a GM, then how are those people supposed to be considered active and actually willing to do something for the server? In my opinion if you really want to achieve something you should work your way up to this particular position. We cant give it to you straightaway. -1

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2 minutes ago, BGCrafter said:

If they dont have the time and interest in something that is required for you to be a GM, then how are those people supposed to be considered active and actually willing to do something for the server? In my opinion if you really want to achieve something you should work your way up to this particular position. We cant give it to you straightaway. -1

It wouldn’t be straight away.  But there should be a different way to become GM without staff. The fact is though that the events right now aren’t happening frequently enough and are not immersive/unique enough for the most part. For a game mode that literally relies on events, I believe something needs to change to allow more people to be GM.

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1 minute ago, Ryzen said:

It wouldn’t be straight away.  But there should be a different way to become GM without staff. The fact is though that the events right now aren’t happening frequently enough and are not immersive/unique enough for the most part. For a game mode that literally relies on events, I believe something needs to change to allow more people to be GM.

I get what you are trying to say. However, since the new map there have been major changes in the GM program. Now encounters are a thing (you still need VIP though) and 3 GHs can host an event together. The thing is that if they dont want to do it, nothing can be done. Right now there are a lot of ways to keep the community entertained, the people are just not using the full potentional of those opportunities.

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2 minutes ago, BGCrafter said:

I get what you are trying to say. However, since the new map there have been major changes in the GM program. Now encounters are a thing (you still need VIP though) and 3 GHs can host an event together. The thing is that if they dont want to do it, nothing can be done. Right now there are a lot of ways to keep the community entertained, the people are just not using the full potentional of those opportunities.

Encounters haven’t been very immersive and there are many people who just sit in bunks and wait for them to end because they often are not immersive and not that entertaining because all branches try to get in on the encounter which just turns into a mosh pit. 

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Just now, Arroyo said:

-1 Honestly I do not like the idea and takes away the point of being staff. 

The point of being staff is to help moderate the server and enforce rules along with help the flow of RP not be disturbed. Their “job” does not by any means have to be about making events. Especially since not all staff are GMs. Staff by default is just enforcing rules and helping players. Nothing more, nothing less.

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+1, At the moment to be promoted in staff it is more than doing events. It is structured in such a way that you have to do TR trainings, Tickets and then events until you become admin then you drop TR. 

The only way you progress is by literally have someone spam tickets for you or click on the box as soon as it pops up (Which you half the time cant claim because its for spawning a dupe) I wasn't promoted to SA because my ticket count was too low which is ridiculous considering I went down the Gamemaster specialty.

Gamemasters and admins are two seperate things which people dont realise. The server I was on previously (Aftershock gaming/Axiom gaming) used the system that ryzen is suggesting with no problems at all.

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35 minutes ago, Ryzen said:

The point of being staff is to help moderate the server and enforce rules along with help the flow of RP not be disturbed. Their “job” does not by any means have to be about making events. Especially since not all staff are GMs. Staff by default is just enforcing rules and helping players. Nothing more, nothing less.

Staff have to choose when they become a regular Admin, either stay TR or go to the GM program it is a requirement to do good in either branches to be promoted and help the community. When I’m reading this I’m instantly thinking about VIP game masters and that suggestion has been denied a lot. How would staff be able to watch and regulate the people doing events? People can not be given staff powers because they can not be trusted. Then spawning stuff and flying around to watch the event is hilarious. If people want staff powers become staff. I use to be a game master and it was easy to balance both staff work and game master. Not only that but the incentive is like 1 event every week, well back when I was a GM. It shouldn’t be hard. It’s staff duty so keep it to staff

Edited by Arroyo
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As I said, there should be some sort of prereq to be able to become a gamemaster without going thru staff, such as past experience or something. I think this suggestion reveals an even bigger problem though. No one would be asking for a separation between GM and staff, or essentially the whole VIP GM deal if the community trusted the staff team to create quality events

It is obvious that they do not. 

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I’ve seen this a million times and it’s been denied a million times, as convenient as this would be for me personally I know others couldn’t be trusted with the powers that you need for GM without proving their trust via staff first 

 

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+1. During my time playing CWRP I have seen this on many servers and it brought fresh new events. The whole "Do good in a branch to get promoted" thing is a good incentive and all, but more times than not if you went GM as staff, you wouldn't get promoted because of quality. You would be looked at for quantity and time as a rank. Which gives people reasons to shit out horrendous events just to meet the non official quota in the hopes of being promoted (That's what I saw during my time as admin) Separating the GM from Staff will allow people who only want to be GM to make amazing events and not to do staff stuff to be able to make those amazing events.

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26 minutes ago, Arroyo said:

Staff have to choose when they become a regular Admin, either stay TR or go to the GM program it is a requirement to do good in either branches to be promoted and help the community. When I’m reading this I’m instantly thinking about VIP game masters and that suggestion has been denied a lot. How would staff be able to watch and regulate the people doing events? People can not be given staff powers because they can not be trusted. Then spawning stuff and flying around to watch the event is hilarious. Would be edited cause I’m taking a midterm 

To start, I don't think you understand what staff power are versus gamemaster powers. A gamemaster can spawn in NPCs, ships, props and maybe whitelist to jobs depending on the server. A staff's permissions are to ban, kick, gag, mute, jail etc. They are completely different. GMs should have no power to ban someone or to jail them etc. Just because someone is staff does not mean by any means at all that they will be a good gamemaster. Many people just become gamemaster to help out and progress through staff. You cannot tell me that being a  gamemaster determines whether or not someone could make for a good Head Administrator. For starters, an HA doesn't even necessarily have to be a gamemaster so to say that a VA or SA being a GM is a prerequisite for HA or one of the parts that define an HA is a joke. On top of that, our staff that are GMs are definitely getting burnt out much quicker than those staff who are not GMs. GMs being a part of staff is not benefiting the server in any manner. 

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4 minutes ago, Ryzen said:

To start, I don't think you understand what staff power are versus gamemaster powers. A gamemaster can spawn in NPCs, ships, props and maybe whitelist to jobs depending on the server. A staff's permissions are to ban, kick, gag, mute, jail etc. They are completely different. GMs should have no power to ban someone or to jail them etc. Just because someone is staff does not mean by any means at all that they will be a good gamemaster. Many people just become gamemaster to help out and progress through staff. You cannot tell me that being a  gamemaster determines whether or not someone could make for a good Head Administrator. For starters, an HA doesn't even necessarily have to be a gamemaster so to say that a VA or SA being a GM is a prerequisite for HA or one of the parts that define an HA is a joke. On top of that, our staff that are GMs are definitely getting burnt out much quicker than those staff who are not GMs. GMs being a part of staff is not benefiting the server in any manner. 

And that is where you are wrong. 

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15 minutes ago, Nade Jones said:

I’ve seen this a million times and it’s been denied a million times, as convenient as this would be for me personally I know others couldn’t be trusted with the powers that you need for GM without proving their trust via staff first 

What about our commanders who are not in staff? What about officers in battalions who are not in staff or our high ranking jedi who are not in staff. Are they not to be trusted as well because they are not on the staff team? GMs still have to apply and should go through a rigorous trial period and from there, the lead GM can determine whether or not someone would be a good GM. Also, there are tons of people that see how eachother act on the server each day. If someone is a minge and they apply for GM, people will definitely make it known that they are a minge. Why should the server live in fear just because some people "may not be trustworthy". If that is the case, blacklist them from GM. Don't let a few people ruin it for everyone else.

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37 minutes ago, BigBoss said:

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-1, Not only for the reason dragon has stated above, BUT, a separation between staff and GM would (In my opinion) cause events to be EVEN WORSE than they already are.
This is a fat yikes from me, chief!

 

How would events get worse? You cannot tell me that because someone is on the staff team, their events are automatically going to be better, more creative and more immersive.

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+1 would improve quality of events let’s be real

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1 hour ago, Dragon said:

This completely bypasses the point of being staff. You would get Senior Admin powers without any of the responsibilities. It would cause a bunch of people who main GM to leave and would be unfair to the rest. 

It was denied in the past for the same reason. 

If you want to be a game master join staff and work your way up. 

-1

No it does not bypass the point of being staff. People become staff because they want to help the server and the players. Being GM doesn't prohibit that. If people are becoming staff only for the sole purpose of becoming a GM, then your staff team to start just does not have the drive to help the server. People become staff to help players, new and old, deal with those who break rules and ensure that people have a quality experience. That by no means makes them good at making events. Are you really going to dodge the issue behind why the post was made? Events are nowhere near the level they should be. Also are our high ranking jedi and clone officers not trustworthy enough to make GMs? I think some can be and they have worked their way up in the community. It may not be staff but, many worked for their positions. Some are definitely good gamemasters too. Potential is being left untapped and it is a shame because I have kept my mouth shut but, now I feel like it is time to say something because I love the server and community but, this is just upsetting to say the least.

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 +1 If your seriously only apart of the staff team to be a Game Master instead of being a staff to actually help the community and provide a solid safe place to play then staff is honestly not for you. Have GM be disconnected from staff is literally the best way to go. It will provide people that have awesome ideas to execute it themselves instead of sharing the idea to another GM only to have them do it wrong or because they don't just understand. Then yourself hafting to spend several months before they can become a GM and then by the time they get GM they are already burnt out because they did not want to be staff to begin with. They just wanted to be a GM.

 

Look at another huge server that does CWRP. Their GM's are separate from staff and they have nothing but success and AMAZING events. 

Edited by Baelfire
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13 minutes ago, Baelfire said:

 +1 If your seriously only apart of the staff team to be a Game Master instead of being a staff to actually help the community and provide a solid safe place to play then staff is honestly not for you. Have GM be disconnected from staff is literally the best way to go. It will provide people that have awesome ideas to execute it themselves instead of sharing the idea to another GM only to have them do it wrong or because they don't just understand. Then yourself hafting to spend several months before they can become a GM and then by the time they get GM they are already burnt out because they did not want to be staff to begin with. They just wanted to be a GM.

 

Look at another huge server that does CWRP. Their GM's are separate from staff and they have nothing but success and AMAZING events. 

Baelfire speaking the truth man. I've always told the high ups I talk to that I am here for GM. That's the #1 reason why my ticket count was low and why I didn't do too much. I was stuck at admin for a good 2 weeks getting burnt out because I couldn't do events on my own or do event server events. I'm not going to sit here and lie, Being in the staff team here is quite frustrating and easy to burn you out BECAUSE of the GM being staff. Make GM not staff, and you'll see a big spike in event quality. Keep it the same and be resistant to change, and it'll crumble like never before.

 

Edit: To also expand on my original point, you don't have to give Game Masters any staff powers, you can run it like Zim has before on his servers in the past, where you give them NPC, prop, entity, set health, set armor, Noclip, cloak ect. With none of the kicking or banning.

Edited by [SR] Clank
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6 minutes ago, [SR] Clank said:

Baelfire speaking the truth man. I've always told the high ups I talk to that I am here for GM. That's the #1 reason why my ticket count was low and why I didn't do too much. I was stuck at admin for a good 2 weeks getting burnt out because I couldn't do events on my own or do event server events. I'm not going to sit here and lie, Being in the staff team here is quite frustrating and easy to burn you out BECAUSE of the GM being staff. Make GM not staff, and you'll see a big spike in event quality. Keep it the same and be resistant to change, and it'll crumble like never before.

Agreed. That way the staff that want to genuinely be GM will be GMs and the ones who do not want to be staff can stick with GM. We need quality over quantity. 

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Just now, Heart said:

You fool! This is a thing already! It's called encounters!

Encounters are not events. Not even close. No NPCS. No props, No good story. No event server. Nothing. They're literally there for VIPS to get on and shoot shit. We're talking about the whole branch of GM being separate 

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16 minutes ago, Heart said:

You fool! This is a thing already! It's called encounters!

Encounters are a joke. They have no RP and no VIP will ever take the time to structure out an encounter like a real event requires. They usually are just ways to incorporate PVP in a less non-serious manner.

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I do like the idea of being able to become a GM without having to become Staff. I'm not completely opposed to having to become Staff to do so, but doing so in the past on other servers has just left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd love to be a GM for Synergy, but don't have the time to put into reaching the Staff Ranks needed (which from past experience forces the server to be your number one priority).

Unfortunately I also know how much trouble it would be to do something like the proposed suggestion. If I eventually have time I'll still go for GM through the current system. But for now, considering how much of an issue it would cause the Staff Team as a whole, it'll have to be a -1.

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+1, 

For people saying GM powers shouldn't be given out so freely,

You're right they shouldn't. But, no where is it intending for it to be easy to gain these powers as a rigorious trial period with limited capabilities for people to become a fully fledged GM would come with this most likely. On top of that, the same arguement applies to staff, gonna be real any dumbfuck could get New Admin as long as they're mediocre liked. It works for staff program with NA as a sort of trial period, why wouldn't it for GM?

 

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Banned

-1

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-1 doesn't seem like a viable option due to hysteria it will create and the lack of positives we would get from it. If this was to happen the staff team would die and so would the trainer program, and training is usually a problem anyway.

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People are honestly retarded.

There are two branches: Admins and gamemasters

Admins are people that keep the peace, Ban minges and stuff like that.

Gamemasters make events with storyline and let people shoot stuff.

You could be the best person ever but be super bland and dull, Even be burnt out by the time you get game master. (Reason I left staff is because progression in your branch is not decided on your work in the beanch)

Gamemasters are creative people that help the server in their own way by providing events that are actually fun which people enjoy. 

Some people have no patience to teach someone the same thing over and over (TR Training) on their path to gamemaster. The two branches require people of different calibers.

Admins are friendly

Gamemasters are creative

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36 minutes ago, Stern said:

People are honestly retarded.

There are two branches: Admins and gamemasters

Admins are people that keep the peace, Ban minges and stuff like that.

Gamemasters make events with storyline and let people shoot stuff.

You could be the best person ever but be super bland and dull, Even be burnt out by the time you get game master. (Reason I left staff is because progression in your branch is not decided on your work in the beanch)

Gamemasters are creative people that help the server in their own way by providing events that are actually fun which people enjoy. 

Some people have no patience to teach someone the same thing over and over (TR Training) on their path to gamemaster. The two branches require people of different calibers.

Admins are friendly

Gamemasters are creative

Two Branches are TR and Gamemaster. Admin is a rank. Gamemastering requires a LOT of responsibility and trust. You can spawn every weapon, every NPC, and essentially force the entire server to take part in what the GM deems as "Fun." 

 

Thinking that anybody who doesn't have any dedication should get that power is literally insanity. It takes about 6 weeks to get Senior Admin, then another week for Gamemaster. If you're not willing to wait, then you're not dedicated enough to show that we can trust you with the power to quite literally control what the entire server does for a full hour/two hours+

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  • Founder
Founder

What you are asking is to give a player the opportunity of a free staff rank that is the second highest non high staff rank may I add, with 0 staff responsibilities. Not only will this cripple our current staff team by causing about 90% of the GM main staff members to leave, but it will also cause problems in terms of a huge increase in individuals with spawning capabilities running around on the server. This is not sandbox, its CWRP. If you want to become a GM join the staff team... You can main Game Master Branch at the rank of Admin which if you uphold your responsibilities correctly, the rank is not difficult to get quickly.

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5 hours ago, Stern said:

People are honestly retarded.

There are two branches: Admins and gamemasters

Admins are people that keep the peace, Ban minges and stuff like that.

Gamemasters make events with storyline and let people shoot stuff.

You could be the best person ever but be super bland and dull, Even be burnt out by the time you get game master. (Reason I left staff is because progression in your branch is not decided on your work in the beanch)

Gamemasters are creative people that help the server in their own way by providing events that are actually fun which people enjoy. 

Some people have no patience to teach someone the same thing over and over (TR Training) on their path to gamemaster. The two branches require people of different calibers.

Admins are friendly

Gamemasters are creative

I'm sorry but a lot of this is so incredibly wrong and partially disrespectful. You are not really proving a good point by calling everyone that doesn't agree with you retarded.

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Game master should not be held back by people that went through staff and many of these people aren't interested in game master themselves all their thinking about is how the game master branch will have powers a little bit quicker but these powers are to be used only for dupes and events and staffing comes with different responsibilities to their respective branch.

Game master is something that has been shit from the start and only just now has it come to the public opinion.

Everyone needs to understand game master is not a position where you get flashy powers @Square @Dragon I understand that it gives a user high responsibility but they can be demoted as easily as they were promoted. This is not a reason this should be denied, it is already a thing set on every server other than Synergy and Icefuse a main supporter of this type of program is Superior and they've shown that it works. 

Arguments:

How do we deal with staff situations with a GM - Report it to a GM Officer or GMC or a HA may step in if none are available this can be finalized through discussion and should not be dismissed.

Why be a staff? - Not everyone wants to make events or has the knack for it and staff has the alternative to strive for management and the good will have helping the server.

Become staff - Some people have lives and can't keep up with the demand of staffing but can do events in their free time. 

We track quality - What happens when all GM's are removed and there's no one left? Wait for more SA's?

The High ups need to ask themselves why is this asked about by everyone and only denied by high staff and are we really giving community choice in situations like this. 

A system is possible

For this to work it would need to have 

  • Application Process 
  • Applications will open and will stay open till a set amount of GM positions have been filled will only happen when GM's are needed.
  • GM's are shadowed for their first couple events and a GM Trainer can give them pointers and help
  • A document is made and will give information to each GM that they can refer to for help
  • ^^^^ Just a small bit and do not take this as the whole thing.

Game master's would not interfere with anything related to staffing.

Lastly, we've hit rock bottom with the GM team and it's time to stop sticking to old practices, the GM team has experienced this numerous times and it the chain reaction needs to be put to an end.

 

Do not take Stern's behavior in conveying his opinions as a way to escape this.

Edited by Feds
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45 minutes ago, Carter said:

The staff team as it currently functions is being evaluated and will be seeing changes in how it functions as well as clearer rules and guidelines for both TR and GM.

 The changes are being discussed, debated and are going to be implemented in the upcoming week.

I understand this and I am glad I could bring about change however I have known Joah for a while and I have heard about similar issues in the past. Realistically, this issue has risen up in the past and it seems like whatever "solution" the server leadership will draw, unless it has complete separation of GM from staff will just be like a band-aid type solution that we are just waiting for it to fall off and then we will have to find "a stronger band-aid".

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-1 Staff work to get these ranks as it shows that they're trusted, handing applications out and approving them doesn't seem like a thing that would benefit anyone as a whole. If you want to make an event go for staff and work for it, I've done it and it isn't that hard. Just train CC's and make sure you get tickets, there should be no need for a bypass to get GM.

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3 minutes ago, Buzz said:

-1 Staff work to get these ranks as it shows that they're trusted, handing applications out and approving them doesn't seem like a thing that would benefit anyone as a whole. If you want to make an event go for staff and work for it, I've done it and it isn't that hard. Just train CC's and make sure you get tickets, there should be no need for a bypass to get GM.

Are people able to show their trust through their Roleplay on the server? How they interact with the community as a player? And staffing may not be hard but it is time consuming and some people don't have that time.

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Just now, Feds said:

Are people able to show their trust through their Roleplay on the server? How they interact with the community as a player? And staffing may not be hard but it is time consuming and some people don't have that time.

I work 40 hours and I still have time to involve myself, and yes I play other games. If people can work their way up into staff and do events thats fine, but speed tracking up isn't what I call fair to those who had to work for it. I also know how consuming staff is, was a Senior Admin on the CWRP server and staff for the MRP server. 

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Choose your place, hell or high water, there is no in between.

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Aight, here's my two cents on this.

Doing something like this would require a large amount of restructuring, simple as that.  I have played on three servers that have had this type of system, with myself doing both sides on two of them.  Its a great system, don't get me wrong, It allows people to do what they like and not get burnt out.  But, the problem here at Synergy is not particularly the GM/Staff system, its more of the amount of time spent in the current system.  You simply can't just do this out of the blue, when you pick a system, you're stuck with it, especially at the scale we run.  

I'm not opposed to the idea, but the restructure would be a massive fucking pain in the ass for everyone involved.  

The system you suggest works great for Superior Servers, and it would work great here too, if only, it was implemented at the start.

But, hey, its not my job to decide whether this goes through or not, and how it will be done if it does go through.

  

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There are lots of people in the community that want to help the server by running events, but are not willing to become a staff slave and turn the server into a job, myself being one of those people. The community is meant to be run by the players, for the players and since this shit has been denied so many times I don't think Synergy can use that motto anymore since this is what the community wants, but staff are too afraid to lose their power.

Because apparently having to go through the staff ranks for months and turn the server into a job makes you trustworthy lul

+1

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1 hour ago, Buzz said:

-1 Staff work to get these ranks as it shows that they're trusted, handing applications out and approving them doesn't seem like a thing that would benefit anyone as a whole. If you want to make an event go for staff and work for it, I've done it and it isn't that hard. Just train CC's and make sure you get tickets, there should be no need for a bypass to get GM.

You are burning out gamemasters by forcing them to do staff duties if they had no intentions of becoming staff but, simply are just so they could become gamemasters.

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-1 staff work isn't even that hard all you gotta do is be there and do your work, show some dedication and you'll get there. Giving it out for almost free just takes a dump on the people that actually worked for it.

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2 minutes ago, [SR] Marvel [A] said:

-1 staff work isn't even that hard all you gotta do is be there and do your work, show some dedication and you'll get there. Giving it out for almost free just takes a dump on the people that actually worked for it.

How would it be giving it out for free? Have you read anything anyone has put on here?

Gamemaster would be a sought out for position and not to be abused, it is not a free candy position.

Some people don't have the time with school to keep up with staff duties and GM duties nor the brain capacity to multitask them.

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  • Founder
Founder

After discussion with server leadership and the founders, this is something that we will not be pursuing on the server. I know many of you are passionate about the idea of becoming game master. If you are and you want to help out the community I urge you to please sign up for the staff team and join the branch that way. 

Suggestion moved to denied. 

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