Question to you fine folks

[Clank]

This is an honest question for you folks on Synergy: Why do you guys care so much about length of applications?

 

I only ask this as this community seems to have, at some times, unrealistic expectations for lengths of BCMD/Staff/Gm apps.

Whats the fixation on the length?

When you dumb it down, it's just a Garry's mod server on a game older than half its population, why should someone be expected to put an entire book in to achieve a fantasy position.

[Eclipse]

Because lots of people like to skim applications over and when they see a large block of text and large application they don't want to read it and instead just auto +1 it off of other peoples +1s or -1 it off of other peoples -1s. Not saying everyone does but it is likely a fair amount of people do that.

Or they +1/-1 just because of whoever posted the application. If it's a guy they like and the application is long they just +1 it without reading it over. 

So pretty much it looks better and people who don't really wanna read it are more likely to +1 just out of the fact that the application is long.

[Daytona211]

Gamemasters apps don't require a book. 
I look for quality not quantity. It just so happens that most peoples writing skills require those two things to go hand in hand. 

[Conrad]

I'll be honest i usually take into account who the person is and interactions with them more then anything when voting. If i don't have a lot of experience i look to see people that have more interactions with them and what they think of the person. Then i look at the app as the final piece. If i don't know a lot about you and I can't seem to see information from other people then the app becomes the only and most important or if I'm on the fence about my choice. A well worded app that goes into detail shows dedication and thoughtfulness which are important for most (if not all) applicable positions. However there is a point where a long app can just be fluff and it means nothing to me.

[Clank]

3 hours ago, Eclipse said:

Because lots of people like to skim applications over and when they see a large block of text and large application they don't want to read it and instead just auto +1 it off of other peoples +1s or -1 it off of other peoples -1s. Not saying everyone does but it is likely a fair amount of people do that.

Or they +1/-1 just because of whoever posted the application. If it's a guy they like and the application is long they just +1 it without reading it over. 

So pretty much it looks better and people who don't really wanna read it are more likely to +1 just out of the fact that the application is long.

Interesting. Thank you for the reply.

3 hours ago, Daytona211 said:

Gamemasters apps don't require a book. 
I look for quality not quantity. It just so happens that most peoples writing skills require those two things to go hand in hand. 

That's what I like about you being in charge of GM now. You're actually getting shit done and making great changes.

2 hours ago, Conrad said:

I'll be honest i usually take into account who the person is and interactions with them more then anything when voting. If i don't have a lot of experience i look to see people that have more interactions with them and what they think of the person. Then i look at the app as the final piece. If i don't know a lot about you and I can't seem to see information from other people then the app becomes the only and most important or if I'm on the fence about my choice. A well worded app that goes into detail shows dedication and thoughtfulness which are important for most (if not all) applicable positions. However there is a point where a long app can just be fluff and it means nothing to me.

That's the best way to vote, sadly some of the players on here in the past and present haven't gotten the same memo and blindly -1 for length.

[Matt-Matthos]

Because synergy is actually English class and we learn how to write books for our applications 

[Mitchell]

Depending on the application, length can mean more or less.
For example, someone with a marshal app should have a longer app than a squad lead app. Simply because they have a lot more responsibilities and should go over more stuff considering how much they are in charge of.

If someone can''t take the time to fill out a decent sized application then how are they gonna fair when they are asked to actually put in work?

Not a make or break thing for me usually unless it's a clear lack of effort from the applicants part.

[Brooklyn]

I would rather see someone write 3-4 detailed points then write a 10 paragraphed blow by blow of "Making the battalion great again" 
LENGTH DOESN'T MATTER IF THE GOALS ARE PRESENT

[Marvel]

Majority of the time when there is a lengthy application it's all because they decide to shift + enter every different position they have ever held on the server in the experience section then write detailed paragraphs about their time in each position. Waste of space imo. I always felt the interview was way more important than the application. How they actually present themselves and such. So what they couldn't spell a few words and said a few things grammatically incorrect.

Though I can think of one person who copy and pasted the same poor application for several positions that opened up...

[Guac]

17 hours ago, Matt-Matthos said:

Because synergy is actually English class and we learn how to write books for our applications 

Lmao fr. Only reason why I am not fucked in my english class rn is because of the amount of docs and app's i've written 0.0. Kinda sad now that I think about it....

[Sanchez]

Most of the time this isn't the case. Length doesn't necessarily matter if the applicant is a proficient writer. Unfortunately most people on this server aren't stellar writers requiring more words to get a point across that would require someone with more skill writing less. 

I think when people complain about length they are more so are complaining about lacking content.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Sanchez

[Foxey]

It is my belief that generally a good idea will take some time to explain properly. A person with good intentions will want to lay all of their ideas on the table. Generally an application does not have to be a full fledged essay with little to no grammatical errors to be upvoted by the community- but it does need to express some fully formed ideas about the battalion the person is applying to run or, in the case of Regimental+ Applications, the regiments. 

Regarding the fact that writing docs or lengthy apps has prepared people for English class- or perhaps English class prepared people to write those docs or applications- is that not just a great thing? A real world application! A skill that you developed on your own that helped you out in school! Sad? That's awesome! 

[Sanchez]

17 hours ago, Marvel said:

Majority of the time when there is a lengthy application it's all because they decide to shift + enter every different position they have ever held on the server in the experience section then write detailed paragraphs about their time in each position. Waste of space imo. I always felt the interview was way more important than the application. How they actually present themselves and such. So what they couldn't spell a few words and said a few things grammatically incorrect.

Though I can think of one person who copy and pasted the same poor application for several positions that opened up...

Technodad

[Rolenth]

4 minutes ago, Sanchez said:

Technodad

You just gave me PTSD from this. -Medic

[Kirito]

27 minutes ago, Sanchez said:

Technodad

Mother Of God..... *FlashBacks Intensifies*

[Marvel]

3 hours ago, Sanchez said:

Technodad

Best interview

[Sanchez]

Just now, Marvel said:

Best interview

Oh dear the memories. 

[Keo]

Honestly it's gotten to the point where if you bullshit enough on an application then people just glance at it and assume more is better.

 

Apps used to be much shorter a few years back but people are all trying to one up each other.

[Foxey]

14 hours ago, Keo said:

Apps used to be much shorter a few years back but people are all trying to one up each other.

As the years progress and people have more and more they can stuff in their "Prior Experience" section, I believe applications will only continue to grow longer and longer.

[Dennis]

Guys it’s not about how big it is, it’s about how you use it 😉

But in all honestly I think long apps are ok in like RCMD+ but anything other that can honestly fuck off. Tell me clearly how your going to fix your dead battalion or stay away.

[Fizzik]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

Guys it’s not about how big it is, it’s about how you use it 😉

But in all honestly I think long apps are ok in like RCMD+ but anything other that can honestly fuck off. Tell me clearly how your going to fix your dead battalion or stay away.

That's something people with small ones say.

[Fyi]

I honestly have noticed this for a long time. At the end of the day, people from the outside perspective of a battalion don't understand half the shit the person who is applying is talking about, so people need a good amount of length to make an informed decision on whether to +1/-1. On the same foot, applications shouldn't be entirely based on the content of the application itself, and more based on the person in game actually doing things.

[Smeck]

22 hours ago, Rolenth said:

You just gave me PTSD from this. -Medic

Weird to see a post from you. Though yeah, kinda relived some of the strokes his apps gave me just now.

[Comics]

There is the whole "quality over quantity" idea that I firmly agree with.

unfortunately you do need some form of quantity to actually get quality in the post. Usually when people complain about how short an application it is more in the fact there is not enough content about plans and vision. A bare bones application is one that conveys very little information except "I would be good". A document should be more focused on why you'd be good but many short applications cannot get this across with how short they are.

If someone gets their ideas across and how the want everything to work, how they will do it, ect ect ect in a short manor good on them. but, generally people can't get their ideas across in a short app

[Clank]

5 hours ago, Fyi said:

I honestly have noticed this for a long time. At the end of the day, people from the outside perspective of a battalion don't understand half the shit the person who is applying is talking about, so people need a good amount of length to make an informed decision on whether to +1/-1. On the same foot, applications shouldn't be entirely based on the content of the application itself, and more based on the person in game actually doing things.

That's why I firmly believe that people outside of the battalion someone is applying for BCMD of, shouldn't get to vote. It doesn't affect them, they're not a part of the battalion so how the fuck they gonna know what's going on.

[Fyi]

3 minutes ago, Clank said:

That's why I firmly believe that people outside of the battalion someone is applying for BCMD of, shouldn't get to vote. It doesn't affect them, they're not a part of the battalion so how the fuck they gonna know what's going on.

Well that's also untrue, there's plenty of reasons people should be able to comment. Just because they don't exist in the battalion doesn't mean they don't have input. Battalion Ambassadors, GM program, staff, small interactions on server affairs, friendships, and plenty of other things.

[Clank]

16 minutes ago, Fyi said:

Well that's also untrue, there's plenty of reasons people should be able to comment. Just because they don't exist in the battalion doesn't mean they don't have input. Battalion Ambassadors, GM program, staff, small interactions on server affairs, friendships, and plenty of other things.

I'd have to disagree. Comments on the person, sure, but they shouldn't have a part in the voting process. How are you going to justify someone not getting BCMD when their whole batt supports them, but everyone else has an issue and -1s, I've seen it in the past, and I'm sure people will do it again, gmod players are majority of the time, toxic and out to seize power, why else would people powerplay.

[Clank]

Thank you to all of you who commented on this, It's been actually educational surprisingly.