[DIRECTORS] Adjustment of Cloaking Rules

Merrill · May 22, 2019

Name: Merrill

RP Rank: Commander

Suggestion: Change the rule for SO/RC detecting cloak is done through the activation of equipment upon the suspicion of cloaked enemies being around rather than instantaneous spotting whenever a cloaked enemy is around, always active.

Implementation: Just a change of rule related textscreens and addition of specifics to the rule document.

Lore: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Cloaking_device

Only references to cloaking devices I was able to find shows that the only way to detect cloak was via either tracking of the objects magnetic fields (which could possibly done via handheld or mounted scanning device) or by interdictions fields (created by gravity well generators, only found when dealing with starship cloaks).

Purpose of this change is to give GMs more ability to use cloaked enemies to accomplish objectives before an event begins without having to simply place bombs/communicators/etc whilst in staff mode. This would make events involving cloaks go more smoothly for the GMs and increase player immersion by not forcing GMs to create conflict while in staff mode.

Workshop content if applicable: NA

TrijiM · May 22, 2019

+1

keeganf706 · May 22, 2019

+1 I agree with this having helped GM's it would make events better for the Server and GM's

Ccmonty · May 22, 2019

+1 its annoying AF to have to hide in a corner for like 15 minutes to wait for a RC or SO to leave

BigZach · May 22, 2019

+1 makes sense. Any changes to Master/Lord+ detecting bio-cloaked bois?

Hero · May 22, 2019

+1

Arroyo · May 22, 2019

+1 So I can finally cloak on my assassin

BlackiSblack · May 22, 2019

+1

Elijah · May 22, 2019

+1 I guess

Gadget · May 22, 2019

-1

The reason SO can detect cloaks isn't due to a system or something like that, it's literally there headphones. They are super sensitive and detect vibrations and motion meaning they can hear the droid moving while invisible.

I dont know about RC as most the times it's 'REDACTED'

Bbstine · May 22, 2019

Redacted.

+1

Marvel · May 22, 2019

idk about this one cheif.

Poe · May 23, 2019

+1
In many cases the Game Master or Event job is blamed of failure to do their job to uncloak. When in most cases it is just a simple mistake, whether is be the event job does not know that they were spotted, or if people are simply meta gaming and looking for a name tag. More RP would definitely improve events in my opinion.

Luckyy · May 23, 2019

-1 this would cause more problems, searching is just gonna turn into the event job claiming metagaming

justuscloud5 · May 23, 2019

+1

Scribbles · May 23, 2019

4 hours ago, Ccmonty said:

+1 its annoying AF to have to hide in a corner for like 15 minutes to wait for a RC or SO to leave

Thats the point? Lol.

-1, As gadget stated.

Merrill · May 23, 2019

5 hours ago, BigZach said:

+1 makes sense. Any changes to Master/Lord+ detecting bio-cloaked bois?

I have never had issues with Bio Cloaked and Lords, since they actually RP it out and it makes sense in terms of lore, not to mention it only works against a specific type of cloaked enemy, meaning it has counters.

3 hours ago, Gadget said:

-1

The reason SO can detect cloaks isn't due to a system or something like that, it's literally there headphones. They are super sensitive and detect vibrations and motion meaning they can hear the droid moving while invisible.

I dont know about RC as most the times it's 'REDACTED'

In that case, SO would only be able to exactly pinpoint a droids location or existence when in a quiet setting, since their headphones pick up ALL noise, as that is how hyper-sensitive microphone typically work.

2 hours ago, Lucky said:

-1 this would cause more problems, searching is just gonna turn into the event job claiming metagaming

Explain how this would cause event jobs claiming meta gaming? If SO/RC are given a reason to search for cloakers (such as doors opening on their own or randomly appearing bombs) , the cloaking detector would see right through cloak when turned on. Metagame will probably happen either way, but it would be actually easier detect with the new rule proposed since it gives exact conditions for activation of the cloak detector and how exact the cloak detector would be.

Zyner · May 23, 2019

+1

Per what Gadget said, I would wager letting events be smoother and have more depth is more important. Plus, I doubt an SO would have those headphones on at all times, would surely destroy their ears at a moments notice. SO would have to turn on their devices just like RC would have to.

Metro · May 23, 2019

-1 : 2 Main Reasons
1. This overcomplicates the rules.
2. It's always been this way and worked. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

Baelfire · May 23, 2019

I mean the RC has a special hud that displays pretty much everything you can think of so that is why they can see invisible enemies. Though I do kind of like this. so I am gonna +1 this

Life- · May 23, 2019

-1 If This were to be added how are we ever going to discover cloaks, how are we going to be 100% sure the Doors are opening on their own.

This system have worked for a while i dont believe it needs change.

BigZach · May 23, 2019

This hasn't really worked well. Game Masters either put up with the pain in the arse it caused or left cloaks out of it.

It didn't work, it was put up with.

Craigary · May 23, 2019

-1

Shake · May 23, 2019

-1

Merrill · May 23, 2019

11 hours ago, Josh Schneider said:

-1 If This were to be added how are we ever going to discover cloaks, how are we going to be 100% sure the Doors are opening on their own.

This system have worked for a while i dont believe it needs change.

Even if it is a staff member flying through a door, that would count as reasonable suspicion to check since the doors only open when someone either presses a button or moves next to it. The range to press buttons or activate the doors is relatively small, so if you are looking at the doors or buttons, you should be able to see whether a trooper has touched it or if it is opening on "its own". It will be up to RC/SO to recognize these odd situations occurring (aka using logic/ common sense) to activate the cloak detection systems they have in place.

12 hours ago, Metro said:

-1 : 2 Main Reasons
1. This overcomplicates the rules.
2. It's always been this way and worked. If it ain't broke don't fix it!

1. We are simply adding a condition where you have to have a reason to turn on detection equipment, then do "/me turns on sensitive headphones/detection visor" Complication is certainly perceived differently by different groups, but a rule change that can be described in one compound sentence and one simple sentence does not seem to be "overcomplicating" things.

2. It hasn't worked, as BigZach pointed out, most GMs either just put up with it or just don't use cloaked enemies. Frankly, from my personal experience of being a GM and GH, the difficulty in using cloak with RC/SO around has led to quite a few deployments where RC/SO were denied to avoid ruining the stealth needs of GM through the cloaker.

Life- · May 23, 2019

1 minute ago, Merrill said:

Even if it is a staff member flying through a door, that would count as reasonable suspicion to check since the doors only open when someone either presses a button or moves next to it. The range to press buttons or activate the doors is relatively small, so if you are looking at the doors or buttons, you should be able to see whether a trooper has touched it or if it is opening on "its own". It will be up to RC/SO to recognize these odd situations occurring (aka using logic/ common sense) to activate the cloak detection systems they have in place.

Then we're gonna be checking for cloaks all day, No thanks.

Carvis · May 23, 2019

-1

Kalrain · May 23, 2019

+1 If it helps events and spices it up then it should be good

Scarecrow · May 24, 2019

This kind of a thing would be so annoying in a event /me Turns on the cloak detection event job doesn't see it as they might be to far away and people start agruing because the droid has to uncloak but didn't see it and even then in events already it is hard enough to get cloaked enemies to uncloak when they are around those they should uncloak round any way so I would rather not complicate the situation more -1

Edited May 24, 2019 by Scarecrow

Gadget · May 24, 2019

On 5/23/2019 at 4:25 AM, Zyner said:

+1

Per what Gadget said, I would wager letting events be smoother and have more depth is more important. Plus, I doubt an SO would have those headphones on at all times, would surely destroy their ears at a moments notice. SO would have to turn on their devices just like RC would have to.

They are built into ther helmets so unless they have it off they always have them on. It's obviously a more complex system then just "they can hear real good" but I dont know the correct manner to adequately describe it to you.

Feds · May 24, 2019

+1 maybe keep SO’s but RC makes zero sense as to why they can see cloaked individuals at all times.

Merrill · May 24, 2019

6 hours ago, Scarecrow said:

This kind of a thing would be so annoying in a event /me Turns on the cloak detection event job doesn't see it as they might be to far away and people start agruing because the droid has to uncloak but didn't see it and even then in events already it is hard enough to get cloaked enemies to uncloak when they are around those they should uncloak round any way so I would rather not complicate the situation more -1

Is it really that hard to say in Comms "Hey, we might have a cloaker, checking now." before doing just that? Players already call out potential cloakers, so that acts as a sign that troopers are activating their detection equipment. GMs would also be monitoring for this and would be able to tell their Event Jobs that the devices are on.

Tyzen · May 24, 2019

You do realize That RC Can already See cloaked enemies with out even having to turn it on , In lore they were built into the helmet you didn't have to turn it on, its not like a light switch where you click it on, I've seen some dumb things but this one honestly tops it, and if RC and SO ruin your event because its all about cloaking Adapt to it and be creative.
-1

Also why are you linking about cloaking ships it has nothing to do with commando droids are all? Nice "lore" you got there.

@Merrill Ok so im curious, Did you talk to anyone about this like 21st Nova Corps/ RC or did you just throw this up with out talking to anyone?

Edited May 24, 2019 by Tyzen

A-a-ron · May 24, 2019

This rule just ruins the point of RC and SO being able to see cloaked enemies. If events go wrong because we can see cloaked enemies stop relying off cloaks and put some actual effort.

-1

Edited May 24, 2019 by A-a-ron

Life- · May 24, 2019

your linking lore to Ship Cloaking Tech how is this relevant to the suggestion in any shape or form....

Edited May 24, 2019 by Josh Schneider

A-a-ron · May 24, 2019

Here's the correct link......
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Personal_cloaking_device

and even on the correct link it says they are invisible to the and i quote "naked eye," Katarn armor helmets let us see things normal troopers cant.

Edited May 24, 2019 by A-a-ron

Kurt · May 24, 2019

I'm going to put a fat -1 to this. Like I get what you're going with, but it's going to make our ability useless. Sure SO would be able to cloak, so we should know how it works and how to detect people with it. Or else we'll be crashing into each other cause we can't see each other. But that's just my 2 cents coming from a previous SO BCMD.

Qal · May 24, 2019

9 hours ago, Scarecrow said:

This kind of a thing would be so annoying in a event /me Turns on the cloak detection event job doesn't see it as they might be to far away and people start agruing because the droid has to uncloak but didn't see it and even then in events already it is hard enough to get cloaked enemies to uncloak when they are around those they should uncloak round any way so I would rather not complicate the situation more -1

This is exactly why, im -1.
It's going to cause more issues than you think.

Piff · May 24, 2019

1 hour ago, Tyzen said:

Did you talk to anyone about this like 21st Nova Corps/ RC or did you just throw this up with out talking to anyone?

He doesn't have to, it's changing a rule not changing something within those battalion

Piff · May 24, 2019

22 minutes ago, MolecuI3 said:

Like I get what you're going with, but it's going to make our ability useless

There is no lore about SO Being able to detect cloaks in the first place

Firat/Abi · May 24, 2019

Bros and sisters, Im pretty much neutral. Just don't try to fix stuff that isn't broken

Piff · May 24, 2019

+1 First off lets be real, SOBDE usually doesn't respond half the time to cloaked enemies, either there is none online or too busy, So doesn't hurt you guys, And SO, No one ever calls you guys to detect cloaked enemies, like i do not remember the last time someone did, It's always SOBDE, So it should be changed for yall def, As well, You guys are making it seem like its the end of the world with changing the rules, You guys are only viewing this from a player point of view, Think about the GM who have to deal with y'all seeing the Event jobs, And in Republic Commando's you actually had to activate tactical mode to see enemies in the dark and cloaked basically, So unless you have it activated at all times it would be understandable that you can see them, but you don't, If you want to go see this for yourself, go buy republic commando's and play the game.

9 hours ago, Gadget said:

They are built into ther helmets so unless they have it off they always have them on

Yes they are built into the helmets, but they have to turn it on, it's not always on and i'm pretty sure night vision is not able to detect cloaked enemies because never mentioned in lore from what i see that ya'll could detect cloaked enemies and that goes for RC & SO.

1 hour ago, A-a-ron said:

This rule just ruins the point of RC and SO being able to see cloaked enemies

What??? You guys never could see them in lore, so not really. You guys technically only had Night vision.

Also, Seeing Cloaks isn't the only thing that makes yall special, If you think that plays a major part of what makes you special than idk what you guys are on.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Papa Piff

Metro · May 24, 2019

On 5/23/2019 at 2:01 PM, Merrill said:

1. We are simply adding a condition where you have to have a reason to turn on detection equipment, then do "/me turns on sensitive headphones/detection visor" Complication is certainly perceived differently by different groups, but a rule change that can be described in one compound sentence and one simple sentence does not seem to be "overcomplicating" things.

2. It hasn't worked, as BigZach pointed out, most GMs either just put up with it or just don't use cloaked enemies. Frankly, from my personal experience of being a GM and GH, the difficulty in using cloak with RC/SO around has led to quite a few deployments where RC/SO were denied to avoid ruining the stealth needs of GM through the cloaker.

Just got the chance to reply to this finally.
You are overcomplicating the rule in the sense that A) More issues will arise and B) This is a change to a rule that is as old as Synergy. Changing it now will only cause issues and confusion. Obviously your "Compound Sentence" doesn't confuse anyone, and frankly the shade isn't needed.

Now to the point regarding GMs. If they can't figure out how to use a cloaked enemy, perhaps they should come up with a new event idea. Every event shouldn't involve cloaked enemies. The events have gone way down hill with the exception of a few GMs with real ideas and concepts. This is what is contributing to people getting burnt out and leaving. Find new ideas and new ways to sneak enemies past, it doesn't always have to be "Oh yeah this was my cloaked Commando Droid event, hope you enjoyed!". Considering "Personal Cloaks" are very limited in lore and Commando droids are never seen with them to begin with. So the lore argument fights in neither corner of this debate.

Tbh, this whole thread seems to be created in spite of RC and SO, ESPECIALLY with how combative you are to anyones post.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Metro

Bazoo · May 24, 2019

3 minutes ago, Papa Piff said:

You guys are only viewing this from a player point of view, Think about the GM who have to deal with y'all seeing the Event jobs, And in Republic Commando's you actually had to activate tactical mode to see enemies in the dark and cloaked basically, So unless you have it activated at all times it would be understandable that you can see them, but you don't, If you want to go see this for yourself, go buy republic commando's and play the game.

Are you like an idiot or something ? How else are we supose to look at it if its not from a player point of view ????????????
GM has been dealing with this for over 3 years now and its been just fine until the GM branch started lacking and just copied other peoples event, stop blaming people that isnt concern or isnt their fault what so ever and maybe use your head for once.

Anyway my response for that suggestion is NOMEGALUL

Jags · May 24, 2019

-1. Nah, its fine how it is. theres no point to change it now at this point.

Piff · May 24, 2019

49 minutes ago, Bazoo said:

Are you like an idiot or something ? How else are we supose to look at it if its not from a player point of view ????????????
GM has been dealing with this for over 3 years now and its been just fine until the GM branch started lacking and just copied other peoples event, stop blaming people that isnt concern or isnt their fault what so ever and maybe use your head for once.

Anyway my response for that suggestion is NOMEGALUL

Have you ever been a GM or done an event that involves Cloaked enemies? and Use my head? You're acting like its the end of the world by adjusting the rules and I'm the one who should use my head.

Bazoo · May 24, 2019

2 minutes ago, Papa Piff said:

Have you ever been a GM or done an event that involves Cloaked enemies? and Use my head? You're acting like its the end of the world by adjusting the rules and I'm the one who should use my head.

That thing make no sense what so ever, this rule is just fine and its been like this for years and its really not a problem.

Also Ive been a GM, I was also a GMO and a high staff.

Stop trying to act so high and smart honestly, this rule has no reason to be changed. Its really not hard to sneak around even with RC there, Ive done it multiples times.

Piff · May 24, 2019

Just now, Bazoo said:

That thing make no sense what so ever, this rule is just fine and its been like this for years and its really not a problem.

Also Ive been a GM, I was also a GMO and a high staff.

Stop trying to act so high and smart honestly, this rule has no reason to be changed. Its really not hard to sneak around even with RC there, Ive done it multiples times.

When? Because you say it's been like this for years, Things change over years if you haven't noticed

Bazoo · May 24, 2019

1 minute ago, Papa Piff said:

When? Because you say it's been like this for years, Things change over years if you haven't noticed

When the server wasnt a bunch of drama hunters.

things changes over the year but doesnt mean that its for the better ? now lets stop spamming this suggestion ive experess yours and ive expressed mine, suggestion arent the place to argue, you should know this

Knockout · May 24, 2019

-1

Kurt · May 24, 2019

2 hours ago, Papa Piff said:

There is no lore about SO Being able to detect cloaks in the first place

There is little to no lore about the 187th, but they are on base. Would you rather it just be SOBDE to only see cloaks, okay. But letting SO being able to see/detect them would take a load off your shoulder.

salxas123 · May 24, 2019

-1

Luckyy · May 25, 2019

4 hours ago, Papa Piff said:

+1 First off lets be real, SOBDE usually doesn't respond half the time to cloaked enemies, either there is none online or too busy, So doesn't hurt you guys,

This is just a question, but then whats the point of this suggestion? and all arguments if we're never there????

Edited May 25, 2019 by Lucky

Orc · May 25, 2019

-1

Marvel · May 25, 2019

-1

I've never heard a GM even complain about this until now.

As a Game Master you should be able to adapt to the situation that happens in your event, not sit there and complain that someone has utilized one of their specializations to spot an event job.

There is already enough problems with the way it is currently with the whole event job not seeing the RC or SO and not uncloaking or them just not knowing about the rule or caring about it. This suggestion in my opinion will make it more complicated and cause more silly arguments.

CruorFlumine · May 25, 2019

-1

GM-3022 Havok · May 26, 2019

I'm going to give a big

-1

and in my experience, whenever RC/SO do see cloaked enemies, half the time, the cloaked person doesn't decloak despite them being supposed to, and then a big argument happens between the gamemaster/helper and the players over weather or not the cloaked enemies have been seen or not and that takes a lot of time out of events/encounters when that happens. What you are suggesting will only make even more arguments break out. Also there is a high chance that not everyone would honor this new system. People don't always honor the current system as it is.

On 5/24/2019 at 4:09 PM, Papa Piff said:

There is no lore about SO Being able to detect cloaks in the first place

At this point, the server gives zero fucks about lore.

Gadget · May 26, 2019

14 minutes ago, GM-3022 Havok said:

On 5/24/2019 at 9:09 PM, Papa Piff said:

There is no lore about SO Being able to detect cloaks in the first place

At this point, the server gives zero fucks about lore.

They have helmets which can detect vibrations super well. They heard the wing beats of geonosians approaching there position in the star wars series, they can probably hear a droid walking about invisible and roughly know where it is.

Darkk · May 26, 2019

-1 Honestly changing this rule would leave more harm than good, sure its more immersive but then you have something like this happen

SO: I detect movement around (Insert Area here)

EeventJob: That's metagame (Insert excuse here)
-A fight occurs were everyone is yelling at each other in the middle of the hallway-

(Btw the word "excuse" has 2 different types, there are valid excuses and nonvalid excuses so I just summed it up and put the word excuse)

Piff · May 26, 2019

8 hours ago, GM-3022 Havok said:

At this point, the server gives zero fucks about lore.

Agreed

~~CannonBanned~~ · May 27, 2019

+1

Esitt · May 27, 2019

Directors decision

@Dragon and @Bananaberry

Dragon · May 31, 2019

Suggestion Denied

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