Do CG like being the server police?

[Dono]

I've always wondered this since I have talked a few times with CG members individually from time to time and noticed that there is quite a animosity from other battalions toward cg. This is usually because of the role they fill on the server to conduct arrests on people who break server rules. I'm asking this question here to just gain a better, more official understanding on the opinions of people now in CG and on the server.

If we talk about gmod over all... most servers rely on their staff team to punish those who violate their server rules. SWRP for better or for worse, tends to use CG as a player ran group to do what really could be just the staff teams job. Currently on the Staff team the only thing you can do is become a GM ultimately now. I personally think there is not a lot for staff to do, if they dont want to be a gm. We have a lot of staff members in this community and honestly I think they could take over the arresting responsibilities for CG. 

I know this is something that CG has been doing since the dawn of time here but my only question is whether or not they actually enjoy the job or if it ultimately becomes a burden / thorn to players in the battalion. Removing the responsibilities of arresting doesn't mean you have nothing, CG could still run the brig like always in RP and in RP detainments / arrests. CG is the only clone battalion on the server that is basically just unrecognized staff members. I dont see why its fair to make one battalion do all the work when we have an entire staff team where many members do not like doing the one path it currently provides.

 

[BigZach]

as a non CG member I think it's my place to say yes.

[Comics]

I think the whole point is CG do this because it sort of just always made sense to do it. They're literally military police so it makes sense they would arrest people who break rules. It's like the whole idea is CG are like a neutral arbiter who just mindlessly do what the rule directly states with little thought behind it, they arrest when there is an AOS and that's it. I dislike the idea of CG personally investigating if an AOS is valid because I don't think they are staff and so I don't know why they would be able to make a decision as if they were staff.

I don't think anyone has a real issue with CG or TG arresting people, it's more convenient than staff usually because they're always on the ground usually pretty near the problem, and they also can be stationed around in places arrests are more likely (which they don't do anymore sadge). They have always functioned well as a group who does arrests and I personally don't think that is a place of contention in the server. Arresting people is very easy and requires little genuine training. CG aren't really trained to do staff sits, they just do the arrest which is maybe 3 buttons. I also don't know if Staff want this responsibility either, seems a strange one to tag on, since structure is so loose in Staff it might take longer to actually have someone arrested as members put it off expecting someone else to do it. CG are all in 1 channel and basically scream "I;LL GET IT" in game and in TS and it's solved that quick.

I think what people hate the most about CG is their ability to force RP and the way they actually RP. It seems to just attract a very certain type of crowd who are extremely interested in forcing people to do things for them. CG is the only battalion you can't really say no to RPing with or try to get away from the situation because they will detain you. This makes a pretty harrowing situation in which you're forced to do unfun RP because if you don't they'll force you in a cell and if you don't comply they will actually AOS you. This is at least my problem with CG, it's like a battalion that can do BH RP with everyone on the server. I find it hard to what to interact with them when they're either always being rude or trying to force you to comply to their RP. 

Also, if you think CG get hate for arresting, why would we give that to staff instead? Like the server sort of doesn't like staff that much, just yesterday the VAs were getting flamed for removing whitelists. Do you think they should get more responsibilities which you claim lead to more hatred? Like it's adding an unwanted additional responsibility to a more decentralised team (in game). seems like a good way to make people like staff less and want to be staff less

 

Also battalions need to relax policy on arrests. I don't think an arrest should be any automatic type of removal from anything. Yeah maybe if you RDM but failRP is so broad it basically is never a serious thing. People allow CG to really affect their positions in battalions not by CG choosing to overreach but because battalions are lazy in disciplinary procedure. CG are only the issue RP wise, arrests are honestly mostly not an issue they attribute to.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Comics

[Opa]

Well it's like house chores, do I like them ? Sometimes. Are they important? Ofcourse. Hate is a strong emotion,  we focus a lot of our attention to to the whole process of arrest, I think for most part we might get heated in situations, but all in all we enjoy it, I don't think people would spend hundreds or thousands of hours in the batallion if there was no special feeling to it

Most big communities have CG to do arresting.  

Hate is a uncommon reaction to arrest, mostly nobody give a shit, for the rare occasion where a long standing community members get arrested I fully understand that sometimes arrest are being disputed, and that's when it becomes a staff issue. It's as simple as making ticket for RDA and see if it was valid or unvalid arrest, stay or get released. 

Also people might get pissy that I arrest somoene that is AOS, like bro if they are AOS its on sight, it's not RAOS, it's as simple as making a staff ticket and figuring it out. At that point don't expect CG coming back there and figuring it out, there is a long standing policy that we don't deal with figuring it out wether an arrest is valid or not, unless its RAOS, it's the person's job to make a ticket and get an admin or several staff members to figure out if their arrest is valid. 

Staff is very helpful for the entire process, they might not have  the entirety of the process, but often they have the role to help us if the situation gets out of hand with arresting people and you are the guys that do the check on us when people make RDA ticket. I think it works well overall.

To Comics comment that we AOS people if they don't RP with us or forcing RP, that's something that should be brought further and investigated and worked on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guac]

I brought up a different system for arresting during my Spec Reg term, however I tabled it due to staff changes and other battalion issues. I personally have seen the animosity build against CG on multiple occasions due to their role as the arrest-er, and it is very concerning on not only a servers population's attitude, but also the enjoyment of the Courscant Guard.

As a player, you should not be put into positions in which you receive verbal abuse on a regular / semi-regular occasion, nor did they sign up for that. Staff are volunteered members of this community who understand the rules, and have been assessed as to their maturity when dealing with situations like these.

I think for CG to move away from dealing with arrests, means they can focus more on RP aspects of their job, whilst maintaining that security role. A full pullout of CGs player base when it comes to arresting people is unrealistic, I understand, so I am not suggesting that they get rid of the ability to be able to arrest people; but everything past the point of arresting the individual should be solely a staff's responsibility.

TLDR; While CG should be able to arrest people, any issue regarding the validity or investigation of the arrest should be dealt with by staff.

[Finn]

4 minutes ago, Guac said:

I brought up a different system for arresting during my Spec Reg term, however I tabled it due to staff changes and other battalion issues. I personally have seen the animosity build against CG on multiple occasions due to their role as the arrest-er, and it is very concerning on not only a servers population's attitude, but also the enjoyment of the Courscant Guard.

As a player, you should not be put into positions in which you receive verbal abuse on a regular / semi-regular occasion, nor did they sign up for that. Staff are volunteered members of this community who understand the rules, and have been assessed as to their maturity when dealing with situations like these.

I think for CG to move away from dealing with arrests, means they can focus more on RP aspects of their job, whilst maintaining that security role. A full pullout of CGs player base when it comes to arresting people is unrealistic, I understand, so I am not suggesting that they get rid of the ability to be able to arrest people; but everything past the point of arresting the individual should be solely a staff's responsibility.

TLDR; While CG should be able to arrest people, any issue regarding the validity or investigation of the arrest should be dealt with by staff.

What was the tabled system?

[Guac]

1 minute ago, Finn said:

What was the tabled system?

What I explained in the rest of the text. With staff taking over the duty of post-arrest activities in their entirety. As well as being the deciding factor in the investigation of an RAOS rather than a member of CG. Having a unified front in this matter, and making sure that the members involved can then be actively held accountable due to their position as staff.

[Mystic]

As TG we get (what might not be the same hate) shit on by people that are mad about arrests, it really is just something you choose to do by joining these groups. Like charity but,... to deal with immature people and stand around all day.

I DO think that if we have something like Guac mentioned with CG/TG doing arrests, then staff looking into it would be a good system as it prevents Invalid Arrests or falsae AOS/RAOS's

i don't personally like arresting people filling out a log then posting an AR waiting for them to either leave or come out and do the same thing again.
I think that without CG though things would be abit rockier as staff is usually less active than CG at night which makes minging less prevalent so if we did wind up swapping to staff arrests people might get away with more, and others would question CG's need for a speed boost on top of that. I think it's a neat idea, but not realistic.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Mystic

[Zensras]

Honestly,   CG/TG have always had that animosity for the longest time.    It's differed from each Fox term on how bad it gets.   

Do staff need to step in now and then?   Absolutely.   I've had to do it a few times and had to correct a few people.   I.E CG arresting senate during a tryout for walking into BCC despite the fact they are allowed in there due to their RP.  If a person just gets arrested then continues to do the same shit,  then staff need to get involve and evaluate if that person needs to have a sit and staff action. 

I like letting them do their jobs.   Don't get me wrong.    

Edited June 17, 2022 by Zensras

[Marvel]

CG would be cooler if they detained more people in RP. I miss back in like 2018/19 when CG were abducting people for Palpatine like they were his own personal hit squad. As of late they’ve just boiled down to the red guys who handle arrests and that sucks because there is so much RP potential for CG. 

I’m a little more radical in all this tbh. I think we’d be better off if they lost batons and worrying about arrests and focused more on being Shock Troopers and doing the Chancellor’s and/or the Senate’s dirty work. Staff could very easily handle arrests but like I said that could be considered pretty radical. I know I was in CG for a few short weeks back on Titan Base and I ended up losing interest when I was told to stalk a CT and to arrest him if he breaks any rules. 

[Dono]

4 minutes ago, Marvel said:

CG would be cooler if they detained more people in RP. I miss back in like 2018/19 when CG were abducting people for Palpatine like they were his own personal hit squad. As of late they’ve just boiled down to the red guys who handle arrests and that sucks because there is so much RP potential for CG. 

I’m a little more radical in all this tbh. I think we’d be better off if they lost batons and worrying about arrests and focused more on being Shock Troopers and doing the Chancellor’s and/or the Senate’s dirty work. Staff could very easily handle arrests but like I said that could be considered pretty radical. I know I was in CG for a few short weeks back on Titan Base and I ended up losing interest when I was told to stalk a CT and to arrest him if he breaks any rules. 

I'm gonna agree with you here.. I definitely think that they should drop the arrest batons completely. Staff can do the job easily and they can focus on rp instead of being the police.

[Brooklyn]

2 hours ago, Guac said:

have been assessed as to their maturity when dealing with situations like these.

We had a maturity assessment? 

[Xaze]

6 minutes ago, Dono said:

I'm gonna agree with you here.. I definitely think that they should drop the arrest batons completely. Staff can do the job easily and they can focus on rp instead of being the police.

As a former Fox, previous CG Commander recently, and CG Regimental. I completely disagree. All of the CG I've talk to find some form of satisfaction as it passes time during off hours. I personally enjoyed having something to do even when nothing was going on. CG never use to get deployments before they were moved under me, and this was there way of having fun. It's a staple that has always been with CG, and should not be taken away. If the server moves towards serious RP where continuous senarios are happening involving CG, then maybe we could consider, but I don't think this is something that we should look at. 

 

As a side note - I've had this discussion previously with Directors, and was told that CG wouldn't be in the server anymore if they couldn't arrest. 

 

I'm kind of Radical in this opinion, but I'm open for discussion if you disagree. 

[Dono]

2 minutes ago, Xaze said:

As a side note - I've had this discussion previously with Directors, and was told that CG wouldn't be in the server anymore if they couldn't arrest. 

 

I'm kind of Radical in this opinion, but I'm open for discussion if you disagree. 

I can see why you don't think they should stop arresting. Thats totally unfair to them to be removed if they no longer arrested. Gawd Dayum!

[ToxicSword51]

Hello! So, this is a topic that had come up a while ago while I was a Commander in CG under Noodles, and from what I remember, the bottom line of it was that if we do decide to remove CGs power to arrest, server management or whatever will remove CG from the server as a whole. I’ve been out of the discussion for some time now so things could’ve changed since. But basically the question I’m coming to is if we were to remove CGs arrest powers and possibly even CG, what would we replace them with?

[Dono]

4 minutes ago, ToxicSword51 said:

Hello! So, this is a topic that had come up a while ago while I was a Commander in CG under Noodles, and from what I remember, the bottom line of it was that if we do decide to remove CGs power to arrest, server management or whatever will remove CG from the server as a whole. I’ve been out of the discussion for some time now so things could’ve changed since. But basically the question I’m coming to is if we were to remove CGs arrest powers and possibly even CG, what would we replace them with?

Personally I wouldn't want CG removed at all. If that meant they keep doing arresting then so be it. 

I know other ppl would argue its fine but CG is the only battalion on the server with an urban environment focus. and not in a combat sense either

[chysk0]

Hi, I was in CG a few times. A few years ago to a few months ago.

If CG is at a peak or near peak status with more than two members online daily, then you'd see more of a "I'm a guard and/or patrolling" type of deal. The speed bonus has been there.. forever, and 100% sure it's so they can outrun people trying to be faster than us.. and get to places they need to easier. If they both have 20 points into speed, you wouldn't see an arrest unless they're in close enough proximity. The only case where CG as a whole would get upset is if someone they're chasing decides to use a jetpack or discconects or /cc. For the jetpack one, sometimes it's real, sometimes they're chasing you as a joke (not with baton out) because you hit em and called them a silly monkey or something. Which is fine, unless again, it's a real AOS.

Now, I'd say this battalion is more for the people who want to be serious at times and lax at others. CG does end up attracting the very serious types now and again, which is okay, as long as they're not forcing that state upon us. It always changes from time to time as well, you might get people who actually like the RP aspect of policing/guarding while you get those who just want to make sure the server isn't rife with minges. Sometimes, you get people who aren't either, which is quite weird, but does happen. Logging is tedious, but it is what it is.

For the Security / Guarding aspect:

Referencing my first sentence, you'd see CG at BCC, HMC, Brig, or patrolling if it's in a peak status. Right now, it isn't, that's why you don't see them guarding anything but brig which is more of a priority to them.

For deployments or events, tailored ones are the most fun. They actually give CG a sense of being there and not like the main server where everyone just goes to the same place. In my opinion, CG likes to do what it is meant to do: Guard/Secure. Fulfilling that role for them gives them a sense of purpose. Don't confuse that with standing guard after some battalion clears out a place. They already do that on main, where they stand guard without any enemies. This is also very boring if encountered. Instead, throw something at them, like a bounty hunter trying to escape the area, something like FreeRP, or plain old waves every now and then.

The most fun I had on a deployment for CG would be .. Marvel's(?) temple attack that brought in a few other battalions. CG had the primary function of securing the temple, which we all liked. Afterwards, the battalions came in when we got hit by a surprise attack. Very fun.

On main server events/encounters, it's always the same thing, "something cy or hmc. everyone rush to that area." which honestly, makes everyone feel the same way. It gives them something to do which staves off that boredom, but no sense of fulfillment or purpose there. 

For the Policing:

If someone gets AOS'd, then CG must arrest them. They're not just gonna stand around while you talk with your friends about the next great hit. There are also those who like this part, where they chase someone with a stick, even those minges like it for some reason. However, the worst part is when they /cc every single time. For an RAOS, it's a little bit like the same, where you have to go "investigate" a crime. Now, they don't really reveal much into that topic, nor is there even an example for them to go off of, but when encountered, it'll either be dealt with in a matter of seconds or.. you might have something else. 

I've had both sides, but the latter is the worse type. It was a close-and-shut case. 10 minutes later, I get a poke and asked to go into an office. This person then asks why I didn't arrest so-and-so, I state why. Now, they try to force their ranks upon me, from both clone and Jedi. I stand my ground.. Might also be worth mentioning that I scoffed somewhere during this period for something that was so rashly said (not by me) that I couldn't resist doing it. 

That's the part everyone hates the most. Escaping by /cc or trying to force.

 

For the players who are dickheads:

That's either their personality, so they might come off that way to you. Or they might be frustrated / upset.

tldr: there's fun in there, only depends if you like it or not. not everyone's cup of.. whatever.

Edited June 17, 2022 by chysk0
formatting and words

[Arizona]

Idk seems like I’d have to make a couple tickets for a staff member to come within the hour and deal with an arrest but that’s just me. :P

Edited June 17, 2022 by Arizona

[chysk0]

5 minutes ago, Arizona said:

Idk seems like I’d have to make a couple tickets for a staff member to come within the hour and deal with an arrest but that’s just me. :P

so true

[A-a-ron]

We should install the Third Reich to deal with ne'er-do-wells

[JaredT]

As a member of CG. CG will always feel this way. In my case I don't think arresting and enforcing rules is a Burdon but I cant speak for others. But once CG loses arresting perms the battalion will be removed. We all know this so its basically either have CG be able to arrest or have no CG on synergy at all.

 

[Mystic]

honestly i really enjoy beating clones with my stick and watching them disappear then somehow come out of brig crip walking because theyre still arrested.

[Jad]

Honestly this topic is a really common one. I even offered to attempt removing the arresting role from CG multiple times to allow them to participate with other battalions on their level. But each time it seemed like something really kept them wanting to remain in their roles. I definitely think the battalion isn't for everyone, but it definitely has a place for those looking for a job in a sea of clones that's more authoritarian or police like. There's an enormous amount of potential in CG for some great roleplay interactions as well. Back when I was Spec Reg I spent a large amount of time with CG's Tracker unit (ARF is the best REG) and honestly it was insane the RP present. From running with Massiffs to complete investigator roleplay to figure out the big bad guys location. Currently I think the mix of both, arresting, and roleplay that is offered by them is great when performed correctly. But at times it can leave the battalion pushing further to one side and leaving the other side absent.

TLDR; Depends on the BCMD and Officers as to if CG like their jobs or not.

[Ratio]

A few years back, I probably would have looked at this post and said that CG losing their arrest batons is probably one of the worst ideas you can bring to the table. Now, I feel as if the situation is a whole lot more complex with an equally as complex answer. Yes, the Coruscant Guard is a battalion that is ran by players who are meant to uphold server/roleplay rules and putting bad boys away for fifteen minutes. However, I think that by making the distinction of them being "player-ran", it's kind of ignoring the fact that the staff are players too. Sure, you got the people up top that are generally focused on management and ensuring everything runs smoothly--but in a community that's partially ran by the players, it can at times "govern" itself.

My point is that if people looked at CG in a similar light to how they looked at staff (people just doing their jobs who can easily make mistakes), then it'd probably be easier to include them. These days, you don't really see CG taking it upon themselves to deal with a situation because at best, they're reacting to AOS'es as it absolves them of almost all blame that, bAcK in mY dAy, used to constantly get tossed their way. Lately, CG has become much less assertive in a more lax environment. My take? This constant need to avoid drama makes the infamous baton-wielders an interesting case, as it seems that people have become aware that AOS'es are typically a dispute between players. Usually the AOS issuer is trying to prove some kind of point or is pissed off in some way at the target. This is not to say that these AOS'es are unjustified, but officers these days typically view an AOS as a last resort--which means that some buttons had to have been pressed.

As I said, the answer to whether or not they should hang up their batons is complex. On one hand, no, we still need that first line of defense against those that are genuinely out to disrupt the community. On the other, CG just aren't functioning as they used to. You can pretty much RDM in front of a CG and they won't care. "If you don't use it, you lose it" is a phrase that I think applies here for sure. Fucking arrest me for setting Jedi on fire, damn it!

Something else I will comment on is that the CG hate is much less prominent these days. This is a great thing, but I don't think they should be afraid to do their jobs.