Add a Jet Trooper Regiment/Job to DU

[Harsh]

Name: Harsh

RP Rank: 1stLT, REGL

 

Suggestion: Add a JT regiment to DU. These would be your standard variant Jet Troopers that are seen across the server as a part of every other battalion. These Jet Troopers would NOT have access to the riot shield that other DU troopers (excepting HS) have access to. I have already gotten permission from BCMD Doom (Slak) to put up this suggestion. 

 

Implementation: This would require adding a “Jet Trooper” job to the list of Doom’s Unit jobs. The model for the Jet Trooper already exists and can be easily used for the job. 

 

Lore: Doom’s Unit lacks the depth of lore that other battalions on the server (like the 501st) have on the server. There is technically no lore precedent for Jet Troopers in Doom’s Unit; after all, the information we have in lore regarding the battalion is limited solely to one episode from the animated television show. 

 

However, much the same can be said for the 21st and 41st (perhaps even Rancor); from some quick lore review, neither of these battalions seem to have a lore precedent for a jet trooper division/regiment. Yet, both of these battalions have jet trooper regiments. My point here is that there is a precedent set already for adding jet troopers to a battalion even if they are not explicitly stated to have existed as a part of the battalion in lore. 

 

We will delve deeper into this later on in this petition, but the main reasons we want to add jet troopers to DU is to give the people that join the battalion the ability to have the fun experience of becoming a jet trooper (something that is not currently possible, excepting the single position of HS Lancer). When we hold Lancer tryouts, almost everyone from the battalion shows up to try and become that character, speaking to the popularity and draw of the jet trooper as a position. 

 

Workshop Content if Applicable: N/A, already on the server. 

 

If you are asking to add or change a job, fill out the following

 

Add or Change: Add 

 

Job: Doom’s Unit Jet Trooper

 

Slots: 10

 

Description: “The Doom’s Unit were led by Commander Doom and were most famous for wielding blast shields and using heavy blaster cannons during the Clone Wars.”

 

Model: models/player/gideon/doomsunit/du_jet/du_jet.mdl

 

Weapons: Standard DC-15a and DC-15s.  

 

Other:

 

The whitelist would also require the Synergy RP Jetpack (added to the player upon spawn).

 

We’d like to appeal to the community regarding this suggestion. We already anticipate a plethora of negative feedback, but would kindly request that you take a moment to hear us out before submitting your vote. 

 

Our Reasoning: 

 

As was explained briefly above, we are requesting this addition to provide the people in our battalion with the ability to experience the gameplay of being a Jet Trooper. 

 

Dearth of Choice:

Currently, the only DU whitelist with the jetpack is that of Lancer. Lancer is one position in a battalion with 40+ active members. The popularity of the jetpack whitelist is manifest in the attendance at Lancer tryouts - we get more people trying out for Lancer than for any other position in our battalion by a landslide. The lack of Jet Troopers in DU currently means that only one person in the battalion gets to play as a Jet Trooper. 

This is not the case for every other battalion (excepting, of course, CG and SOBDE). For many people, the lack of jetpacks is something that drives them towards literally ANY other battalion that has them (anecdotally, this has happened more than once). Our battalion members lack the choice to pursue the jet trooper route, and are worse off for it. 

 

Original Complaints:

From what I understand of the early days of DU, the main reason we were not given the privilege of having a Jet Trooper regiment is that it would have been extremely overpowered. When DU was a young battalion, each whitelist had access to the Z-6 as a part of their normal kit. This was incredibly overpowered (if technically lore accurate) and was justifiably removed shortly after implementation. The Z-6 was instead replaced with the deployable shield, the other unforgettable aspect of the Doom’s Unit trooper’s kit. 

The argument against the addition of Jet Troopers to DU then changed to state that having a flying shield trooper would break realism and also potentially be overpowered. We understand and accept this complaint; for that reason, we are specifically attempting to add the base Jet Trooper (with 15a and 15s only) and NO SHIELD to DU. I repeat, we are asking that a base Jet Trooper with no shield is added. 

With the changes that DU has undergone, these arguments no longer hold any weight. Our JTs would be just like any other on the server - they would simply have a different model and would be part of DU instead of another battalion. 

 

Fairness:

Life isn’t fair. The number of times I’ve been told that are beyond my ability to count. However, I think it is a good rule of thumb to try and strive for as much fairness as possible when we make decisions, especially in communities like this one where the enjoyment of others may be significantly affected by the addition of a subunit to another battalion. 

I will attempt to coherently outline my view on the fairness of this addition below. 

I don’t think it is reasonable to say that adding JTs to DU will create an unfair draw to the battalion. At the time of writing this suggestion, DU has the following attractions: Havoc Squad (a fan-made battalion), the deployable shield (which makes our battalion unique), and the right to host AV-7 trainings (a very nuanced artillery vehicle that was recently added). 

 

How I evaluate fairness is fairly straightforward: it all centers on equality. If another battalion has more than a given battalion, that is somewhat unfair. However, I recognize that, again, life isn’t fair and not everything can be equal. The other battalions with Jet Troopers have a lot more drawing people to them than DU when it comes down to the specifics. Here are some examples (please note: I am not trying to call any battalions out, nor am I advocating for a downgrade of their subunits or anything like that. I am just trying to make a point here). 

 

501st: Have 332nd, all basic subunits (including JTs), Torrent Company, and multiple lore character positions with unique loadouts. 

 

212th: Have 2ndAC (a JT subunit with a medic, support, officer, and officer whitelist), Ghost Company (only a set of bodygroupers), and Foxtrot (a whole RC squad). They also have multiple cool lore character positions. 

 

41st: Have all the basic subunits (including JTs), control over the BARC and AT-RT trainings, and Green Company. 

 

104th Battalion: Again have all of the basic subunits (including JTs), have negotiation training, and the Wolfpack (some badasses with jetpacks and cool lore stories). 

 

21st: Have the basic whitelists again (including JTs, but I believe they are missing some), have KU, and SO (have a cloaking device).

 

Rancor: Have all of the basic trooper whitelists (with JTs, also includes the ARC specialized MED), and have the Alpha ARCs. 

 

CG: The only other battalion to lack JTs on the server. I would love to see them put a suggestion up for the addition of JTs if this is successful. Anyways, they have the other basic troopers and DS. 

 

SOBDE: They do SOBDE things, we’ll leave them out of this. 

 

From a side-by-side analysis, you will notice that there are some battalions that arguably have more than DU (501st, 212th, 41st, 104th), two that have arguably as much as DU (CG and 21st). The nitty-gritty details of this analysis aren’t super important; the fact of the matter is that DU is at some level of disadvantage compared to many other battalions on the server. I’m not going to do some “fairness calculus” to prove this to you, as that doesn’t exist. I hope that this listing out would give you some idea of the relative standing of our battalion as we see it compared to the others.

 

What would JTs add?

We’ve already gone through this, so I’ll leave it short. JTs would give our battalion members the opportunity to experience the fun of flying around with a jetpack on the server. JTs would enhance our reconnaissance and aerial capabilities, and would create a welcome change to our current ground-based strategies during events. We will be able to finally take to the skies like so many others on the server and make more enjoyment for ourselves in CWRP. 

 

TL;DR: Doom's Unit would like to add back the JT subunit. Some of the arguments for this are an expansion of choice for new recruits, a rebalancing of the battalion relative to the others in the server, and a response to outdated arguments against the addition. I'd highly encourage you take a look at the entirety of the argument (at least skim through it) before voting. Thank you for reading and being patient with us!

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Harsh

[Slak]

Now as he said WE PROMISE to never have the idea of putting a shield on this job. +1

[Nova_]

+1 Its just a jetpack , literally every other battalion has one so why not dooms unit.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Nova_

[Harsh]

Just now, Nova_ said:

Before I submit my vote are you asking about creating a new subunit for dooms unit or just a dooms unit jet trooper job?

Just a jet trooper job like the other battalions have!

[Slak]

Just now, Nova_ said:

Before I submit my vote are you asking about creating a new subunit for dooms unit or just a dooms unit jet trooper job?

Nope. This a new regiment. As in like heavy arf and arc

[Marvel]

+1

You understand that the job would need to lose the shield and you accept that so I support this. Best of luck with the suggestion!

[justuscloud5]

 

5 minutes ago, Harsh said:

41st: Have all the basic subunits (including JTs), control over the BARC and AT-RT trainings, and Green Company. 

 

we have all basic regiments yes, but we have also the least the lore jobs(Dooms Unit actually has more now than us), AT-RT is blacklisted, and GC is literally for scouting and boogaloo shit. BARC is semi-exclusive to 41st but Rancor is able to do the training as well if they are cleared as a BARC trainer by 41st. This suggestion actual defeats the whole purpose of Havoc Squad whom are supposed to act as the mobile unit of Dooms Unit. I can understand where you are coming from but is there an actual need for it as it removes an integral part of your main battalion, but you do accept that. I am conflicted on this but I will leave it a hesitant +1 for now.

 

[McBallMaster]

+1

[Bleach]

+1

Sure

[Harsh]

11 minutes ago, Dinaric said:

+1 I’m all for it just as long as you don’t have shields 

Thank you for your feedback!

9 minutes ago, Marvel said:

+1

You understand that the job would need to lose the shield and you accept that so I support this. Best of luck with the suggestion!

Thank you for your feedback!

1 minute ago, justuscloud5 said:

 

we have all basic regiments yes, but we have also the least the lore jobs(Dooms Unit actually has more now than us), AT-RT is blacklisted, and GC is literally for scouting and boogaloo shit. BARC is semi-exclusive to 41st but Rancor is able to do the training as well if they are cleared as a BARC trainer by 41st. This suggestion actual defeats the whole purpose of Havoc Squad whom are supposed to act as the mobile unit of Dooms Unit. I can understand where you are coming from but is there an actual need for it as it removes an integral part of your main battalion, but you do accept that. I am conflicted on this but I will leave it a hesitant +1 for now.

 

Hi Cloud, thanks for this information. I am very unfamiliar with the 41st and their status on the server. Sorry for getting this wrong. Hopefully this comment will serve to correct the mistakes I've made. 

Havoc Squad is in a very multi-role position. As they are our elite subunit, they serve many purposes, including quick breaching, EOD, and acting as shock troops. So, Jet Troopers would fulfill a different "RP Role;" that of the other JT regiments that are present on the server. I hope this can clear up the issue you've brought up. If not, please let me know!

 

[Gadget]

Doesn't this kinda go against the whole DU image of being a big more grounded and defensive. It would make sense if you slapped HS on it a added 3 more jobs for it or something.

 

I aint against the idea but not full on board juuuust yet.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Gadget

[Guac]

Before I cast my vote, I hope you understand I FULLY comprehend the use for these JT's and you reasoning for them.

With that being said, -1.

DU's job is to provide for a defensive front and being experts in such maneuverings. You mention of lancer is understandable but HS's intention is to be a fast based, non-defensive squad. This again, does not apply to the rest of DU. Your mention of subunits quite confused me on the intention of such but thats besides the point. I believe this suggestion has long term implications on the use of DU if passed for the future.

TL;DR - DU is a defensive battalion. JT wouldn't make sense in any capacity. It wouldn't be "unfair", it would just be redundant. imo.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Guac

[BigZach]

-1 

[Aeon]

-1

[KillJoy]

+1

[Logic]

Both sides of the argument are rather strong. With DU being defensive based a JT wouldn't make sense (excluding HS). Its like CG, they don't usually do the whole front line thing that requires a JT. I personally am conflicted. If DU had every regiment and the uniqueness it currently holds, what would inspire people to join other battalions. I think DU is a unique battalion on the server when compared to 501st, 21st, 212th and 104th. I feel like it wouldn't be fair to give DU all the same regiments since they keep their shields when 21st lost the westars (on most jobs), 212th and 501st lost their custom dc15a's. All batts also lost the stats buff. I can see us getting a JT if we were to give something up.

 

I am going to remain neutral because you guys really want it, and founders will make that final decision. 

 

Funny meme reason: Jetpacks dumb, remove regiment entirely. Reserve for 2AC, AA, Lancer, and GM

[Guac]

2 minutes ago, Logicless said:

Jetpacks dumb, remove regiment entirely. Reserve for 2AC, AA, Lancer, and GM

bold 

[Buzz]

Defeats the purpose of the battalion, you're fine as is. No need to keep modifying it.

-1

Edited February 4, 2021 by Buzz

[Guac]

@BuzzHarsh already said no shield or z6 for the JT

[Gadget]

Wait hole up

14 hours ago, Harsh said:

From a side-by-side analysis, you will notice that there are some battalions that arguably have more than DU (501st, 212th, 41st, 104th), two that have arguably as much as DU (CG and 21st).

This is kinda petty and you are really downplaying DU.

 

DU have Shield, which are hella useful.

CG are mainly for arresting and have no benefits or jobs more than DU. Except run speed but that is from being the police.

21st, if we split this into the 2 elements.

GM... can board... about it. They obviously have sealed suits from lore.

SO... can cloak.. about it again.. nothing more and yeah that is 2 but are very situational. 

501st have like nothing special about them, just one of every reg bar RC and lore characters basically. 

212th is the same as 501st but less lore and more RC. And 2ndAC but like thats just 212th HS.

104th, same story as the other attack batts, some lore and a lot of the basic jobs but nothing super special. Not special weapon or equipment. 

41st, um, I dont even think they have a speed  boost anymore. They just green. But they arefine. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Like you batt has more than most in areas and less in others. 

 

Also if I could give all GM jobs jet packs I would.

 

-1 DU is actually unique. This just sounds like you want to be like everyone. But thats just me.

[Hanz]

-1. Make a new Lore Character in Havoc Squad named Otter that has a jetpack, westar, shield, and z6 then Its a +1 from me. 

The lore from Otter: He was genetically modified to sound like a teenager so that the CIS would be confused, He is extremely strong, intelligent, used to have a gambling addiction. He got the nickname Otter because of he is an Apex Predator, like real life Otters. He has spent time working with Torrent Company and Wolfpack, and is considered a brother to them. His Model will be exactly like Gambit's except with a Jetpack, and Tally marks on his helmet and arms for his Confirmed Kills (These will literally cover all of his armor).

 

[TheCyan]

+1 I understand where the -1s are coming from, but I just personally don't agree. People in DU want jetpacks, I think they should get a JT regiment. Basically everyone else has one and I think it should be allowed. Let people have their fun.

[Harsh]

Hello everyone! Thank you for your responses, and sorry for not responding earlier. 

I will try to address some of your concerns in a single message to make it easier for others viewing the thread who are yet to vote on the suggestion. 

It seems that the main concern for people is that DU is a defensive battalion, and adding a Jet Trooper subunit will "defeat the purpose" of the battalion/add something "out of place" to the battalion. I see some validity in this concern. DU is defined as a defensive battalion on the server, and at first glance, I can see how people could think that this would preclude any possibility of an addition of Jet Troopers.

However, I would encourage these people to think a little bit more about the application of jet troopers to defensive situations. The jetpack is not solely a "move and shoot" piece of equipment. Jetpacks have a wide range of defensive applications, and foremost among these is the ability to take advantage of their mobility to secure hard-to-reach places of strategic defensive and vantage importance. Additionally, the jetpack can be used defensively to augment defensive recon. Our ARF and ARC troopers can work with JTs to get an aerial view of an attacking enemy, thereby giving us a strategic advantage in arraying our forces. JTs would also give us the opportunity to take and hold defensive positions on (for instance) the outer hills of the base on Anaxes. On Geonosis as well, for instance, when we are defensively holding the base on that planet, we can use JTs to quickly respond to threats that arise from adjacent plateaus that are normally unreachable due to the cavernous spaces between them. 

These are just some practical defensive applications of JTs. I argue that JTs are more in line with DU's main defensive goals on the server than out of line with them. The jetpack is a tool; while the tool may have some established uses, I can guarantee that we will find uses that are applicable to our battalion's main goals. Creativity is essential in roleplay, and we will be sure to be creative with our JT regiment if given the opportunity. 

Next, I'd like to address @Gadget's concerns about the "Fairness" section of this suggestion. 

My intention when writing that section up was not to be "petty" nor downplay my battalion nor to call out other battalions. I tried to be as neutral with my writing as possible, framing that section from the perspective of my view of the server as I see it. In fact, when drafting this suggestion, I intended to delete this section, but I eventually decided against doing so based on the advice of some other people I showed this to. 

I understand that others see the situation differently, and acknowledge that I am biased towards my own battalion.

I appreciate that you took the time to write out your opinion of the "Fairness" of adding a JT regiment to DU. I personally do not agree with your assessment of the different battalions on the server.

Yes, DU is unique. We have the least canonic lore of any battalion, and I am proud with what our hard work has accomplished. However, I completely disagree that adding Jet Troopers will make the battalion less unique. We will be retaining the aspects we have already that, as you say, make us unique. Additionally, as I have outlined above, we will aim to use the JTs in a different way from others on the server. 

Again, this is all a subjective assessment, and we are all entitled to our own opinions. I will reiterate that I believe adding a Jet Trooper regiment to DU will be a great benefit to the battalion, and will improve the experiences our members have on the server. Thank you for your feedback. 

[Dennis]

-1 I don’t see the need for it, when I put up the havoc squad suggestion I threw away my rights to get JTs added. I was fine with that, havoc squad fit the purpose of JT,s of being fast and mobile. Just have the rest of havoc squad get jet packs and call it a day tbh. Maybe that just the DU boomer in me but I don’t think it’s needed to give eveyone a jt it will only harm the other branches.

[Harsh]

37 minutes ago, Dennis said:

-1 I don’t see the need for it, when I put up the havoc squad suggestion I threw away my rights to get JTs added. I was fine with that, havoc squad fit the purpose of JT,s of being fast and mobile. Just have the rest of havoc squad get jet packs and call it a day tbh. Maybe that just the DU boomer in me but I don’t think it’s needed to give eveyone a jt it will only harm the other branches.

Hi Dennis, thank you for your feedback. As I mentioned in the suggestion itself, the server landscape has changed significantly since Havoc Squad was added. In my opinion, there is no reason to eliminate all possibilities of having JTs simply because Havoc Squad exists. Additionally, please read my response to the RP reason for adding JTs - I think this may clear up the distinction between HS and JTs that you bring up here. 

I am the current REGL, and all of our branches are doing very well (excepting ARC, because the process takes a long, long time to go through for most people). In fact, we have an excess of members in some branches; adding JTs will of course pull members out of existing branches (anything new on the server does this, just see any other new addition and how people flocked to it). However, I am confident that all of our branches will be just fine even if some people leave to join JT. On top of that, the early hype around the branch will die down and things will stabilize. 

[J.Jefferson]

-1 Literally everyone and their mother has a jet pack on the server. It completely unbalances the game. If it was up to me literally only jet troopers/2ndAC/104th would have jet packs but it’s not. Dooms unit is one of the few battalions what has something special and sets them apart from the other battalions, which attracts players to it. 

Edited February 5, 2021 by J.Jefferson

[Slak]

Would quickly like to note that we planned on using the Jetpack job in a way in defense to not over step the boundaries of being on the attack. We are the defense battalion and will always adhere to that. But other than that we still focus on providing defense with jet troopers to get to other spots regular DU can’t say we can have more eyes while defending. Just because a man has a jetpack doesn’t mean we are attacking. Also to add on, I find it funny how some say that we are a defensive battalion and that’s all we do, but half the times people just ignore he fact of us defending and just push up like idiots and get themselves killed. Half the time we get cucked over on that . . .

 

@DennisYou should know this the best. No HS suggestions get passed, if they do it’s by the skin of their teeth.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Slak

[Wren]

+1 

No Issues with this.

[Bro]

+1, 
This is a solid step to standardize all battalions, though I feel the server will soon have to decide if we standardize battalions for standardization, or take things away so battalions to have specializations.

[CruorFlumine]

+1

[Mantis]

+1 As long as Otter gets Brimestone

[Nova_]

Just now, Mantis said:

+1 As long as Otter gets Brimestone

I sorry to inform you on this , but otter resigned from his clone trooper

[Mantis]

32 minutes ago, Nova_ said:

I sorry to inform you on this , but otter resigned from his clone trooper

No he’s just taking time off to Mentally Prepare for Brimestone.

[Bbstine]

Pending

[Jad]

Unfortunately, this suggestion has been DENIED.

If the same suggestion is submitted again within 60 DAYS of this post it will be automatically denied.

// LOCKED
// MOVED TO [CW] SERVER SUGGESTIONS - DENIED
 

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