Transition to LFS Vehicles

[Shiny Keldeo]

[ - Name(s) | Rank(s) - ] 104th PLTO Major "Keldeo" | Jedi General Plo Koon | Jedi Mythos Master Kellyn Deo

[ - Suggestion - ] Beginning the Transition to LFS Vehicles

[ - Implementation - ] Oh boy, here's a touchy topic. Before you see this and instantly -1 because "It's Been Denied" before, hear me out. When it was first suggested back in its early days, it was very rough and there wasn't much content available to suit our needs. Back then we had maybe the ARC-170, Vulture Droid, and I think the BTL-B Y-Wing which was very buggy. What we have nowadays is amazing, and it's come a very long way.

Firstly, I'm going to cover the basics of what we need on the Server for aerial vehicles. Fighter. Bomber. Transport. Simple enough. There are currently several available vehicles to suit these roles.

Fighters: ARC-170 Starfighter, V-Wing Starfighter, V-19 Torrent Starfighter, Z-95 Clone Headhunter Starfighter, ETA-2 Interceptor, Delta-7 Starfighter, Vulture Droid, Tri Fighter
Bombers: BTL-B Y-Wing, Hyena Droid Bomber
Transports: LAAT/i Gunship, HMP Droid Gunship, Nu-Class Shuttle

And even beyond that there are even more amazing vehicles available that can easily boost the realism and impact of battles.

Turrets: Anti-Infantry Turret, Anti-Vehicle Turret, Anti-Aircraft Turret
Carriers: LAAT/c
Light Frigates: Consular-class Cruiser, Republic Assault Frigate

And most recently, LFS has pushed out a 'Ground'breaking update that has introduced, yes the bad pun says it all, its first Ground Based Vehicle. The AT-TE.

Now before it gets stated, yes. There are a number of vehicles that do not exist on the base. Things like the latest Republic Patrol Transport (LAAT/ie), AT-RTs, BARC Speeders, all still only exist on the Star Wars Vehicle Base we currently use. Simple solution, however. We do as we did for the Star Wars Vehicles we currently have, and pick and choose. Decide what things we should keep from SWV, and what things to add and replace with LFS.

LFS brings a lot of positives with it that the current base we use does not offer or is severely lacking.

Better Targeting and Combat System: Dear god, I can't tell you how many times I've launched a BTL-B Torpedo and it locked onto a friendly vehicle and obliterated it. SWV's targeting system is about as good as the targeting for Force Abilities on the Lightsaber. And with SWV, you barely get the chance to abandon ship. Quite annoying when you have a full transport. LFS gives you time to bail out once you've been put down.
AI Controlled Aircraft: I'm sure GMs would go absolutely CRAZY if they didn't have to call EJs or they themselves to fly attacking starfighters. The AI is surprisingly, well, intelligent. Works very well with the Anaxes Map and the Venator Maps I've tested it with. At times they can be a real threat, and most enemy AI will attack ground targets. Some with explosives.
Options for Co-Pilots and Gunners: Oh man, multiple Pilots in a single aircraft? Yup. Before, it was only our BTL-B Y-Wing Bomber that had the Co-Pilot Ability. Now we can have up to 3 Pilots for an ARC-170. 4 for the LAAT/i Gunship (Yes, the Side Turrets Actually Work!). Promoting Cooperation between Pilots as well as Coordination between Starships and Air Traffic Controllers. And if you don't have another Pilot to man your tail gun, no worries! You can take limited control from your position!
Shields: ...'Nuff said. Really though, many ships have shields that block incoming small arms fire for a good while, and even regenerate to a degree out of combat.

Look. I've laid it all out, and I've taken up enough of your time. So, the closing arguments. Star Wars Vehicles was an amazing base for its time. It helped revive Star Wars on the Workshop, bringing many things into a modern age. And it still holds up today. But with the creator no longer updating it and many SWV Developers moving their vehicles to LFS... I'd say it's time we get with the times. The transition might be awkward, getting used to a more WAC/SWV Hybrid style is certainly not easy. But in the long run, it provides a more enjoyable experience for Pilots.

Pilots in our current state really get little enjoyment out of the dogfights they're in. It's a game of ring around the rosey until one side gets in just the right position to lock onto their target and just chip away at them. This rewards pilots for taking risks and knowing how to use their aircraft, getting the right position to intercept and take down an enemy fighter. But in the end, I speak for a very small minority it seems. The choice is yours. Just please, if you do not want this change, or even if you do... explain why.  If you don't like LFS, give us the reasons. If you absolutely love it, tells us why! It's what can make suggestions like this easier in the long run.

[ - Lore - ] https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Republic_Navy/Legends

[ - Workshop Content - ]

[LFS] - Planes (Base) | https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1571918906

[LFS] Vulture Droid (CIS), Animated Startup | https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1573617472

[LFS] LAAT/i + LAAT/c & ATTE | https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1878568737

[Scribbles]

+1

 

[McFisher]

+1 anti air defenses would help in this base aswell and I dreamed of AI controlled ships when I was a GM

[Buzz]

+1 Adds more and they could opt better performance than the ones we currently use. 

[Elijah]

+1 

[traditional]

I would really love this on the server.. but I’m afraid of the server performance as it’s most likely going to take a massive toll on it, but for now I’m leaning towards a +1

[Sleeper]

+1

[Hero]

Hella +1

[justuscloud5]

+1 I want at-te to take curb stomping to next levelad destroy @Tinovious

[Marvel]

This wasn't denied solely based off the fact that we have contradicting vehicles. LFS can cause a lot of strain on a server. Especially one like ours. Now I have no doubt that it has been updated significantly since the last time it was suggested I still do not believe that it will work on our server and keep performance up. I mean hell look at the performance now? Can't even place down 10 or so NPCs without some significant lag and now we're gonna have NPC ships with a few of our own out? I dunno about that one.

Overall I see a lot of negative side effects this can cause and it would only be added for a small group of people on the server. If there were more battalions with dedicated Pilot jobs or just a standard Pilot job I would +1 but with there only being one battalion with one I will have to -1

 - Sorry Pilots

[Unkindled]

After Testing it out for myself it is a really fun and good mod lots of cool things in it! ACTUALLY BIG +1 Test it out for yourself before rating!

+1

Edited December 24, 2019 by Unkindled

[Pythin]

+1 I agree 

[Cutlaw]

I will +1 but as we know the performance will be the deadline for the add-ons.
Everything comes with a price, sadly. 
We had good add-ons before but due to server performance we could not get them for the server

[Shiny Keldeo]

3 hours ago, Marvel said:

This wasn't denied solely based off the fact that we have contradicting vehicles. LFS can cause a lot of strain on a server. Especially one like ours. Now I have no doubt that it has been updated significantly since the last time it was suggested I still do not believe that it will work on our server and keep performance up. I mean hell look at the performance now? Can't even place down 10 or so NPCs without some significant lag and now we're gonna have NPC ships with a few of our own out? I dunno about that one.

Overall I see a lot of negative side effects this can cause and it would only be added for a small group of people on the server. If there were more battalions with dedicated Pilot jobs or just a standard Pilot job I would +1 but with there only being one battalion with one I will have to -1

 - Sorry Pilots

I can definitely understand that. Not sure how you guys test the addons prior to approval or denial, but I've been testing heavily on a private dedicated server trying to push it to its limits. Obviously I could never really recreate the exact same environment as the main Synergy server, though for the most part it's generally very little strain. Even with entire squadrons of dogfights.

The AI control itself I wouldn't even consider being an "NPC" by the traditional sense. It's really, the best I can describe, the vehicle/entity being controlled by a "Phantom Player" for lack of a better term.

[OkamiHybrid]

+1 People using 'but performance' is a situation that, I presume, the intel team would test to see if they strain the server.

They seem like better vehicles, and the implementation of A.I controlled vehicles would be very helpful for events.

[KillJoy]

+1 it is fun using LFS and it acts how War Thunder planes control 

[Clutch]

+1 would be great for events!

[Dennis]

+1 

[Nade Jones]

+1 I believe performance on a 100+ players needs to be tested but it wouldn't hurt having these on the server for a while just for a trial period to see if it works.

[DracoOdinson]

+1

[Luckyy]

+1

[Neptune]

+1 This is an obvious improvement over the current ships we have, if performance does become an issue, we can still limit how we spawn them with the current amount of players.

During events I've spawned a plethora of NPC's with about 90ish players on and for me I only suffered slight lag (and I have pretty bad internet)  and no one really complained so I'd say it would be fine.

[zoink]

+1 I think we can run these bad boys I played on servers with these ships and they were fine

[Cabrera]

+1

[Prophet]

Used this mod in single player and it is great! We can have like really cool clone wars events where LAATs drop the AT TE in a battle field with infantry coming in after, which by the way actually works so you can pick up the AT TE, so a boo yea!
+1

[Tinovious]

+1

[Shield]

LFS is great, I agree and I will generally +1 this suggestion however our map doesn't have much airspace if we really think about it. LFS supports dog fights and whens the last time a dog fight actually went well on synergy. The ships are much more realistic and you can even have 2 person gunner ships. Cool, but maybe not for our current map if the performance really does take a hit.

[Lord Thegan]

big +1 Now , i know performance wise we are in deep shit to say the least but, if always -1 something cuz of performance then we shouldn't even add anything anymore. we gotta take some risks and if they don't work we can just remove them or pospone them...

 

Gotta test something to see if it works boys.

[Qal]

+1
I feel as there are more opportunity for Vehicles that work better.

[CannonBanned]

+1 Good Luck

[Rohan]

+1 although I don't know if the server will be able to handle it. Would love to see this honestly. Have been playing around actually the past week with @Usefulgamer and it was quite surprising how much fun you can have with it. 

[Stockings]

I love the LFS vehicles, I gotta say they're some of the most fun vehicles to fly and just learn to fly if you don't already.  With that being said, I'm quite sure they cause a large amount of Lag.  Something the server deals with on somewhat of a regular basis, or so it seems.  I think LFS should be attempted on the server and given an opportunity for once, with Anaxes.  I would like to see this added, however, I've got a feeling this won't pass later on down the line.

 

+1

[ISNIFFPROPANE]

This won't work with how our server is set up with DarkRP

and to be able to add this without tanking the performance more than it already is (And its already really bad) they would have to create a custom script which most likely wont happen

 

[Shiny Keldeo]

5 hours ago, ISNIFFPROPANE said:

This won't work with how our server is set up with DarkRP

and to be able to add this without tanking the performance more than it already is (And its already really bad) they would have to create a custom script which most likely wont happen

 

I'm... confused at this response. It functions perfectly well with DarkRP, that's the gamemode I use to test on my personal server. And... what do you mean making a custom script? You mean make a completely custom Vehicle Base just for the server?

[Spaghetti]

+1 this is one of the best ideas I have ever seen

[Arizona]

+1 could be very fun and maybe this could push joah or the devs to do a big update to the server itself and shell out for some new hosting or whatever. This is needed

 

[Alec]

As if the server doesn't lag enough already

[NootNoot]

+1 but the servers lag is horrid with the current provider

[Usefulgamer]

6 hours ago, NootNoot said:

+1 but the servers lag is horrid with the current provider

<Not advertising btw>
PR has custom LFS shit and sure it lags during events but with the 80+ player restrictions on vehicles then it’ll be manageable, and they also got alotta custom shit but their server rarely crashes even when there’s AT-TEs and hella NPCs on the battlefield. 
+1

Edited December 16, 2019 by Usefulgamer

[TahuNova613]

+1

[Moros]

+1
I think it could be beneficial to test how these vehicles work on the server before claiming that lag will destroy everything. 
They can always be removed if something goes wrong. 

[Captain Shrike]

+1

[Usefulgamer]

also this gunship is also a VTOL variation which is really fun to fly and has crew members that can actually be useful (I'm normally a ball turret operator) which if all 5 roles are filled the LAAT can actually operate like a Gunship.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKq0lgv02mg

Edited December 17, 2019 by Usefulgamer
Again I'm not advertising

[Shiny Keldeo]

21 hours ago, Usefulgamer said:

also this gunship is also a VTOL variation which is really fun to fly and has crew members that can actually be useful (I'm normally a ball turret operator) which if all 5 roles are filled the LAAT can actually operate like a Gunship.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKq0lgv02mg

I've tested this one myself. Switching between flight modes, at least in a Multiplayer Server, is quite buggy for some reason. It is also weird to control, moreso than other vehicles on the base. Things like this are why I try to test in a MP Setting along with a SP setting.

[Willyworm1]

+1 as long as it works and isn't laggy, i'm happy with it

[Daytona211]

so, I have done some testing with this addon. It is impressive the fact that the developer was able to do this in garrys mod. 

That being said it seems to be a double edged sword. The AI while being impressive isn't that great on maps that are smaller (check the addon desc).
The addon itself is quite large which by itself is not too bad around 0.524 MB (depending on our backend capabilities).
My main concern is the same as marvel's. Performance  Despite the fact that it ran fine for me in single player and I have seen smaller CW communities utilize this on larger servers I have seen this addon tank players ping. This is one of the severe downsides of playing on an engine made in 2004. While I think this would be an exciting addition I think we need to take into account these limitations before we try to deploy this.

Overall +1 I think it would make a good addition but I think the intel team would need to work with the GM team on this one to ensure that we properly test this addon on the event server before we allow it to be used on main for the performance issues I stated above.

[Sanchez]

I am going to say this about this suggestion.

So I've had many and i mean many complaints about server performance and pilots ships being deleted midflight because of tanking server performance. What I think many pilots that did +1 need to realize is that this most likely wont be any better and the likely hood of it happening more is very likely so please keep that in mind.

And for the love of God do not come to me complaining about your ship being deleted mid flight because the server is smoking 

[Ping]

+1

[MrNoe]

+1

[41stEC-Kilo]

+1 Great Vehicles to use!!!!

[Void_Old]

man oh man lots of fun trying this mod out +1

[Grief]

+1 I think would add more roleplay value to the Server

 

[Oh-Sah-Mah]

+1, tested it out off server and the ships works amazing, this would encourage a lot of dogfighting and actual training in the use of fighters. This will allow for the quick deployment of AT-TE's, not to mention how cool it looks.

[Yoof]

+1

[Aquadango]

I've never heard of this mod or add on before but from the looks of it, having AI controlled fighters opens up more opportunities for event jobs to do RP. 
The gunner seats on the LAAT I've seen before and I've always wondered why haven't we implemented it yet. Anyway if we want to be above and beyond this seems like a good step.

+1 

[Eclipse]

+1

seems very fun! Would be best on Event Server Events as less lag and more opportunity to use a gunship or have a starfight in the air.

[Unkindled]

@Sanchez Resident I think the addition of this should only be implemented into with game master program and restricted access of it to be used. For Ex. Need HA+/GMO+ Permission.

[Dubz]

+1

I've been Piloting LFS for a long, long time, and while it's a bit strange to get used to, LFS is my Bread and Butter. I'd love to be able to fly a Delta 7, and the LAATs, while a little chuggy, are pretty easy to get a handle on

[Trig]

Honestly, IDK why people say "our vehicles already cause lag" the vehicles we use are old as fuck and outdated. A lot of server use this with alot of other high tech shit then we currently use and *probably* have better performance then we do. Just because it looks fancier doesnt mean it cant lag, its probably been optimized constantly. If this gets denied thats gonna be a big oof becase this will probably add a bunch of fun that players are looking for

+1

[Khaos]

+1 would love to have this system on synergy 

[loganhd44]

I would +1 But it would kill the server so i would have to -1

Great idea but only one bad thing.

[Shiny Keldeo]

5 hours ago, loganhd said:

I would +1 But it would kill the server so i would have to -1

Great idea but only one bad thing.

And our current ones don't? At this point, it would be swapping one laggy system for one that's about as 'bad' but with better features.

Really though, when's the last time you saw Y-Wings bombing a target during a huge assault on the base? The only time most vehicles even see the light of day is before or after Prime Time, which really hurts those units that are completely dedicated to it... but that's for a different time. It's like, at this point, either way, something's gonna lag and they're barely going to be used properly. I'd rather go with the one that works better.

[Dragon]

Server box is potentially getting an upgrade (SoonTM)

This is going to be denied for now until said upgrade happens.

A new server suggestion will not be needed.