Stand Your Ground Law

[Demark]

Name: Clone For 99 Crosshair

RP Rank: Warrant Officer

Suggestion: Remove the server rule where you are not allowed return fire upon CT's or any other minge that decides to shoot you. Since I joined Synergy, I always thought this rule was kind of... to be blunt it's dumb. I never cared to try and change it until recently an incident happened and it was brought to my attention. If a minge CT comes onto the server to RDM or MRDM and you are shot or currently being killed, you should be able to defend yourself. It's outrageous how someone can be shot on this server and still be punished and receive consequence for "defending" themself. Yes, it becomes an RDM and Staff situation if you allow them to fully kill the required number of players for it to be a ban. But minges and trolls who actually have a brain will do the bare minimum when it comes to RDM to ensure they are not banned. I personally think it's very dumb that you cannot defend yourself when you're being gunned down by a random CT troll. For instance, 104th is running a tryout with 5 CTs and 1 minge comes in and begins killing them all. The entire tryout has to be reset and everything needs to be restarted all because none of the 7 people there could put down the troll.

I personally think this rule should change and I think most of the community would agree.

Implementation: Rules

Lore: N/A

Workshop content if applicable:
(If no workshop content, suggest a developer or put "Require Development")

[QuotableSkink]

+1, I believe that we should be able to defend ourselves if we are shot at. 

[IamSquid]

+1

CTs deserve to be put down if they are stupid.

[Maxwells]

+1 

I should be able to shoot back. I do anyways

[Phantom]

+1 

I should be able to defend myself and others in the time of need.

[Mystic]

+1.

Can roleplay as if they're BX Commando's on base. Maybe this would also bring about a change of heart in CTs who watch us roleplay this off and they want to actually participate. I dunno. ImperialRP always gets a big + for allowing self defense (IE being considered more serious) if that's the route we're trying to go, killing the CT returns them to bunks and makes AOSing easier on CG.

[DirtyDanLIT]

Just now, Phantom said:

+1 

I should be able to defend myself and others in the time of need.

mhmm

 

[Rivers]

+1

I definitely agree with the fact that you should be able to defend yourself against a CT or a random minge, especially knowing that some imbecile can ruin a lot of stuff with this rule not in place.   

Edited June 10 by MRivers

[Elusionz]

+1 Need to defend myself

[Charles]

+1 This is what the founding fathers intended for us to do!

[Vortexuss]

+1 If a minge CT shoots me I execute them for being a degenerate, might as well make it legal 

[Zion]

+1

I need the chance to defend myself against rogue CTs when i'm in a quest. It sucks not being able to do anything and you have to wait the cool down to do it again just because of a CT

[Wulfram]

+1 Agreed we should be able to fight back, so many get arrested for only defending themselves.

[Boof]

+1 I actually love this

[Vyzant]

+1, truly something that should've existed before. It will complicate some aspects of the server, and make CGs job a little more mundane but it's worth it. Make sure yall get your clipping software ready.

[Unclegennybee]

+1 I love killing CTs

[ManburgerHelper]

+1 

However, I have a question @Demark what will we do when theres no damage logs, and we kill a CT in self defense. Of the CT is smart enough they will just claim you killed them first. And CG will only see the kill log that you killed them first. Not the part where the CT was shooting you. I'm still +1ing it I just want to know the solution to this. What happens when the CT uses CG. Because CG can't just claim because it's Crosshair the CT is immediately wrong.

(I understand clipping helps but what if Noone takes a clip.)

[Demark]

27 minutes ago, ManburgerHelper said:

+1 

However, I have a question @Demark what will we do when theres no damage logs, and we kill a CT in self defense. Of the CT is smart enough they will just claim you killed them first. And CG will only see the kill log that you killed them first. Not the part where the CT was shooting you. I'm still +1ing it I just want to know the solution to this. What happens when the CT uses CG. Because CG can't just claim because it's Crosshair the CT is immediately wrong.

(I understand clipping helps but what if Noone takes a clip.)

CG will be forced to be more actively engaged when it comes to calling upon witnesses. This also raises the question of why we haven't implemented dmg logs yet.  It would only be beneficial to the server. But yeah, as I said. Witnesses, and if there is clip evidence that can also be of use. If there's a situation where there is no witness or clip the person is not really out of luck cause, chances are if someone RDMs they are going to continue the act or try and get back on the person. 
At the end of the day, I'd rather stop someone from freely rdming and have them be out of luck, over 1 troll getting online and laying out an entire battalion and 1 guy is punished for defending himself and the rest of his reg.

[Stormzy]

I'm going to be honest, I can see this turning into a shit show. Basically turning into a big minge-fest and more of a headache on staff. I get what you are saying but I think it's stupid.

-1

[ManburgerHelper]

1 hour ago, Demark said:

CG will be forced to be more actively engaged when it comes to calling upon witnesses. This also raises the question of why we haven't implemented dmg logs yet.  It would only be beneficial to the server. But yeah, as I said. Witnesses, and if there is clip evidence that can also be of use. If there's a situation where there is no witness or clip the person is not really out of luck cause, chances are if someone RDMs they are going to continue the act or try and get back on the person. 
At the end of the day, I'd rather stop someone from freely rdming and have them be out of luck, over 1 troll getting online and laying out an entire battalion and 1 guy is punished for defending himself and the rest of his reg.

Thank you for clearing that up.

[Arroyo]

2 hours ago, ManburgerHelper said:

+1 

However, I have a question @Demark what will we do when theres no damage logs, and we kill a CT in self defense. Of the CT is smart enough they will just claim you killed them first. And CG will only see the kill log that you killed them first. Not the part where the CT was shooting you. I'm still +1ing it I just want to know the solution to this. What happens when the CT uses CG. Because CG can't just claim because it's Crosshair the CT is immediately wrong.

(I understand clipping helps but what if Noone takes a clip.)

This is a perfect example on why this would cause too many issues instead of fixing it. CTs are just minges at the end of the day that will cause harm to others for the fun of it. In order to kill a CT you will just need to clip every kill to prove that person shot you first or you will be arrested, that is a major con. 
 

2 hours ago, Demark said:

CG will be forced to be more actively engaged when it comes to calling upon witnesses. This also raises the question of why we haven't implemented dmg logs yet.  It would only be beneficial to the server. But yeah, as I said. Witnesses, and if there is clip evidence that can also be of use. If there's a situation where there is no witness or clip the person is not really out of luck cause, chances are if someone RDMs they are going to continue the act or try and get back on the person. 
At the end of the day, I'd rather stop someone from freely rdming and have them be out of luck, over 1 troll getting online and laying out an entire battalion and 1 guy is punished for defending himself and the rest of his reg.

This is not the correct mindset to arrests on the server. If CG was to use “witnesses” then there will be a lot of false arrests happening which will be causing more issues. Like what I said previously if you don’t have evidence that this other person shot you, you will be arrested for RDM. The server use to have damage logs but was removed due to some back side stuff (I don’t know exact reason). I would rather have the troll keep trolling to get banned rather than arresting innocent people because they didn’t have evidence to support their claim. I would like to point out that witnesses would not also work because the amount of times we have caught people lying to save their friends, this is one reason that even staff don’t use witnesses for punishments. I can see all the issues arising in which what if a CT kills you and you respawn and kill them back.  Or what if a 212th accidentally shot you in crossfire and now all of 501st and 212th are fighting each other because you killed their man. 
 

 

The cons outweigh the pros -1

Edited June 10 by Arroyo

[SunKist]

+1 Man them CT get to me

 

[SUpER754]

 

5 hours ago, Charles said:

+1 This is what the founding fathers intended for us to do!

So true!

[KaiserNeiner]

-1 this is bad. 

We would need damage logs to implement this properly, and those were removed due to causing lag issues on the server. We do not need to add something that can create latency on the server when the current standard is not an issue. 

This will just create more false AOS's and more baiting RDM charges to arrest more people. 

If you want to legally RDM just hop on your civilian for a better chance. 

 

[Danny1]

If this passed and I killed CT PVT Ben, a current well known minge in CG, and I told you all it was self-defense you would believe me. Ben doesn't have clipping software(or at least he claims so after my 8th or 9th ban with him) so I would not get punished either and would most likely get away scott-free.

This is why a rule like this allows a dangerous way to powergame and I believe should not pass. I have to -1 this for right now.

[DirtyDanLIT]

32 minutes ago, Danny1 said:

If this passed and I killed CT PVT Ben, a current well known minge in CG, and I told you all it was self-defense you would believe me. Ben doesn't have clipping software(or at least he claims so after my 8th or 9th ban with him) so I would not get punished either and would most likely get away scott-free.

This is why a rule like this allows a dangerous way to powergame and I believe should not pass. I have to -1 this for right now.

This is where you would require clipping to be essential. Make it requirement for anyone to put down a MRDM'er to be actively clipping. 
If they don't then they get arrested for RDM

Edited June 10 by DirtyDanLIT

[BobbyBiceps]

I +1 this

[Mystic]

4 hours ago, Demark said:

CG will be forced to be more actively engaged when it comes to calling upon witnesses. This also raises the question of why we haven't implemented dmg logs yet.  It would only be beneficial to the server. But yeah, as I said. Witnesses, and if there is clip evidence that can also be of use. If there's a situation where there is no witness or clip the person is not really out of luck cause, chances are if someone RDMs they are going to continue the act or try and get back on the person. 
At the end of the day, I'd rather stop someone from freely rdming and have them be out of luck, over 1 troll getting online and laying out an entire battalion and 1 guy is punished for defending himself and the rest of his reg.

Damage logs existed for 2 minutes. 

The amount of damage happening on server floods the logs and causes performance issues. its not practical.

[Moose_Wundo]

5 hours ago, Demark said:

CG will be forced to be more actively engaged when it comes to calling upon witnesses. This also raises the question of why we haven't implemented dmg logs yet.  It would only be beneficial to the server. But yeah, as I said. Witnesses, and if there is clip evidence that can also be of use. If there's a situation where there is no witness or clip the person is not really out of luck cause, chances are if someone RDMs they are going to continue the act or try and get back on the person. 
At the end of the day, I'd rather stop someone from freely rdming and have them be out of luck, over 1 troll getting online and laying out an entire battalion and 1 guy is punished for defending himself and the rest of his reg.

This one hits a little personal but I am sure its not meant too. As a CMD of CG 'CG will be forced to be more actively engaged when it comes to calling upon witnesses.' If an RAOS is called then CG actively seek out and investigate which is a big push of making sure if there is evidence to look into it, if there are many people recounting the same situation, again its up held.  

The server is crying out for more serious RP, and a rule like this will set it back ten paces.

An AOS which is currently CPT+ is off the face that people have worked their way and shouldn't have to be investigated as they know the rules. I do feel people +1ing are just wanting to gun down CTs when being shot at which I get is fun, but if we are calling on the server with a lot of suggestions moving towards serious RP then a military complex wouldn't have a self defense rule. 

At what point would you call CG to investigate? Is this after you've had a fire fight with the person 15 times cause you knew they would be running back and you are enjoying gunning them down? What about a CT thats fresh on the server thats running towards you and you mistake him for the minge CT and ruin their experience gunning them down and they quit the server?

It just opens the floor for too many variables, can potentially harm new players wanting to come to the server and as I said brings as almost back to square one after so many suggestions wanting to push more for serious RP.   

-1
 

[Arizona]

12 hours ago, Demark said:

CG will be forced to be more actively engaged when it comes to calling upon witnesses. This also raises the question of why we haven't implemented dmg logs yet.  It would only be beneficial to the server. But yeah, as I said. Witnesses, and if there is clip evidence that can also be of use. If there's a situation where there is no witness or clip the person is not really out of luck cause, chances are if someone RDMs they are going to continue the act or try and get back on the person. 
At the end of the day, I'd rather stop someone from freely rdming and have them be out of luck, over 1 troll getting online and laying out an entire battalion and 1 guy is punished for defending himself and the rest of his reg.

As a current CG this is a "easier said than done" kind of thing. Even without this rule now we still get a LOT of people who don't know how to use clipping software or they simply cannot run a clipping software in the background of their PC. Witnesses are also very shotty at times as we have at lease 1 issue a day where RDM was claimed and there were no clips or witnesses to backup anything people say and when we ask people for all these evidence pieces we then have to rely on black and white kill logs to get the issue handled.  Also damage logs on the server has been added in the past and then was removed because it causes EXTREAMLY bad server performance from what I heard so that's why we don't have it now. 

 

But I understand where you're coming from and trust me id love to gun down a CT as much as the next guy but I just don't think we have the right tools for our players to make this done correctly. If more players had clipping software and the software in general was less taxing on peoples PCs then id give this a +1 but it seems it could cause more trouble than its worth TBH. 

 

When it comes to the side of CG we do try to keep an eye on the most populated areas and make sure we react timely to RDM/MRDM AOSes but we also want to enjoy the server with patrols, trainings, RP, ETC. So in some cases we could be a little slower to react in general but were always trying our best to keep an eye on things. 

-1 from me 

Edited June 10 by Arizona

[Gohn]

sounds like a @Bactasuggestion to make

[Bacta]

1 hour ago, Gohn said:

sounds like a @Bactasuggestion to make

its a superior suggestion 

[Marvel]

No.

[Marvel]

Unfortunately, this suggestion has been DENIED.

If the same suggestion is submitted again within 60 DAYS of this post it will be automatically denied.

// LOCKED
// MOVED TO [CW] SERVER SUGGESTIONS - DENIED
 

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