The Merit System Sucks (Change My Mind)

[Bonzai]

I will hate the merit system till the day I die. You would expect it to encourage NCO's to host good trainings for your battalion but if not implemented perfectly it just becomes something that the NCO core will hate because some people think that once you have hit the merit requirement it is an instant promotion. Also some battalions still use the old format for points, this just doesnt work. Recruits are alot harder to come by now and honestly bringing someone in that stays should be a very big deal. I fully believe in the TIG system as it works as a block for people trying to powerplay but if im being real I miss the days where once you hit SNCO it was up to you to do stuff and get noticed by your higher ups. Luckily my battalion still uses this old system. As an officer its nice to not have to look to see if they have logged enough shit to get promoted, if you do good and I (or any other officer)  notices that youve been doing good then u get promoted. Its simple and easy.

Basically the merit system is a micromanagment system that only benifits lazy officers who dont pay attention to their troops.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Banzai

[Spieler]

In my mind, an important part of a GOOD merit system is that all aspects of it are clearly defined for the NCOs that are working with it. Simple things like making sure NCOs are aware that, in merit systems, obtaining all of your merits doesn't guarantee you a promotion are the responsibility of the officer corps in a battalion. 

Something like a TIG system won't work well as it allows people to idly sit by and be promoted without doing anything, as well as easily allowing for favoritism. Having a well-managed system that is changed at the needs of the battalion through suggestions or the work of the Officers in a batt makes sure that everyone going through the system is given the same equal opportunities for promotion as everyone around them.

As for the part about lazy officers, that's just how it happens with merit systems that are poorly maintained. A good merit system is one that also has good officers, where they don't rely on the merit system, but use it as a general gauge as to how much work they've done; not the quality of work done. Even with the merit system, Officers still have the responsibility of making sure that NCOs aren't abusing it and that NCOs are keeping up the battalion's standard of quality.

It's not hard to make a merit system that is good and encourages NCOs to do good work. You just need to first make sure your Officer corps is willing to do their job. A merit system isn't perfect for every battalion, but works very well for the battalions that want structure to support the battalion.

[Brian-Limmon]

I don't really care about or understand the whole whether it's better to have a merit system or not, but I know that the only reason I don't really main my clone anymore is because merits made it feel sooooooooo boring like a chore and I completely fell out of the grindset after a few weeks

[justuscloud5]

Merits make it feel like a job instead of a game or community.

@Metroyou fucking lurker I see you there and I know you agree

[Finn]

Merit systems are the easiest way to have an unbiased promotion system. Anything less is either blatantly biased or doesn't give NCOs enough to do that will count towards promos. People always complain, but there's never a better system. 

[justuscloud5]

2 minutes ago, Finn said:

Merit systems are the easiest way to have an unbiased promotion system. Anything less is either blatantly biased or doesn't give NCOs enough to do that will count towards promos. People always complain, but there's never a better system. 

 

[Daytona211]

Edited February 4, 2022 by Daytona211

[Metro]

I'll be honest, I miss the days of MERIT actually meaning what the word means. Not menial tasks that have to be done before you can move forward. This has been a big reason why people are turned off from doing activities, trainings, etc. Because they feel like it's a job rather than something for people to enjoy. All Promotions that I have ever done was based on the person earning them. Not by spamming tryouts, trials, activities, etc. I shouldn't have to have promotional guidelines such as "3 Recruits, 2 Activities, 4 Event Leads for SFC", people who deserve to move up will prove so by being a Leader, or an active member of the battalion/group by promoting roleplay. Not everything needs to have a strict measurement, sometimes you have to be able to judge not only the work you can see but the intangibles like work ethic, leadership, etc.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Metro

[Hanz]

I think what works best is a point system with Cooldowns that are more of a guideline. Officers can easily see who is doing work if they look for it, but a point system can help quantify that if no officers are on say later at night or early in the morning. As long as it is made aware that having your points doesn't guarantee a promotion then it works well and keeps NCOs working and helping out if they really want to.

[Black]

2 minutes ago, Metro said:

I'll be honest, I miss the days of MERIT actually meaning what the word means. Not menial tasks that have to be done before you can move forward. This has been a big reason why people are turned off from doing activities, trainings, etc. Because they feel like it's a job rather than something for people to enjoy. All Promotions that I have ever done was based on the person earning them. Not by spamming tryouts, trials, activities, etc. I shouldn't have to have promotional guidelines such as "3 Recruits, 2 Activities, 4 Event Leads for SFC", people who deserve to move up will prove so by being a Leader, or an active member of the battalion/group by promoting roleplay. Not everything needs to have a strict measurement, sometimes you have to be able to judge not only the work ethic but the intangibles.

this gives me 501st vibes from 2017

 

anyways

merits are only an excuse for officers not to be active and just check of the roster who did shit. They only mean something when a battalion is in a bad state and officers dont have a chance to experience and witness acts of their soldiers.

[Brian-Limmon]

21 minutes ago, Finn said:

Merit systems are the easiest way to have an unbiased promotion system. Anything less is either blatantly biased or doesn't give NCOs enough to do that will count towards promos. People always complain, but there's never a better system. 

Tbh the only benefit they have over another system is that they are unbiased as you say. It's very unrewarding when you can just do /advert for tryouts without actually doing one a bunch of times and move up rather than actually getting involved and making yourself noticed, sometimes bias is a necessary evil when it comes to viewing things on a case by case basis, which is something that is obviously a very useful tool people can utilize in a community this small

[Baron]

Don't mind me just earning my merits

 

[Guac]

TL;DR

Strict merit system = no good

Merit to help officer see everyone equally = good

Merit-based promos only = no good

Loose promo with merit system help = good

[Conrad]

A lot of points have already been said, but i'll say my personal opinion nice and clear.

Merits should not be the end all be all of promotion. If the BCMD doesn't think he can promote someone outside of his merit requirements then the system is broken. Merits should be used as a training lesson for newer officers so they can start to understand what kind of work is expected of each rank. As you progress up the officer ranks you should be expected to know more about what is expected of each rank, and know when merits should be bypassed.

Merits are good in the fact that it makes a guaranteed way for someone to get recognized for all the work they've done. Merits are bad when people stick to them like the holy grail. Use them as an indicator and guide and you'll be fine.

[Katy]

The only good merit systems I've seen is the one in 212th and that took a long time to develop and iron out and it will also never be perfect (such is the way with a system like that). I have however seen an objectively bad merit system and it was the one for Jedi that was required of you to get Master and the 10 knight ranks that came with it. Worst idea I have ever seen

[Desmond]

I agree with both sides of the coin here, but not being promoted for 35 days as an NCO because of a lack of merits physically hurts and makes me want to stop playing the server. It makes doing things I used to love painful and boring. I agree it’s needed to encourage NCOs and train officers, I just wish officers could ignore them when someone has been putting in effort and role playing well. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Desmond

[Otter]

Fuck Merits

[Mavelle]

i liked seeing number go up so much that I joined staff

[Comics]

I think the merit system streamlines and addresses a lot of the issues requirement systems faced. Requirements truly had become outdated by 2019-2020 and were a artefact of older times. They just weren't up to scratch in the numerous things of which someone could do to interact with a battalion. I think flat faced saying merits sucks just disregards the reason why everyone uses them, it's just sort of ignorant to refuse to acknowledge the reason almost every battalion or other group uses at least a merit derivative.

 

But it does feel a lot like a crutch sometimes, 212th used to have a huge issue of spending multiple hour+ meetings slightly adjusting merit points to get the most effecient layout possible as if fucking 14yr old timmy from Nebraska is gonna really do the maths and isn't just gonna slave away for a week doing only recruitments and the most shit arse trainings. The reason everyone uses it is because officers get it way easier, it's pretty free from bias, & it unironically feels pretty rewarding to get some of those points.

But it doesn't train someone to become an officer, it doesn't teach NCOs anything except that they are a slave for all the batt's manual labour, & it creates a huge divide between officers and NCOs.
Sergeants are the prole who slave away to actually keep a battalion afloat, and Officers are this high class of people who pretty much just sit around on their arses and tell people what to do. Merit's hugely put everything to the NCOs and remove any work an officer might have to do. That's the biggest issue they cause

 

I'd like to see people create a half-decent replacement cause merits are significantly better than requirements and mamba-style do it when you feel like it is ripe for abuse in this day and age. 
This idea that merits make the game seem like work is kinda silly cause all systems do this, someone has to recruit, do regimental work, do sub-unit shit, do trainings and all this other dull boring monotonous shit. The system works just about fine, it doesn't cause huge amounts of issues and I see this as a fundamental issue with the way battalions deal with work loads

 

We need to tackle the issues of Officers doing fuck all and NCOs getting the lump sum. NCOs do everything and that's what you all care about, not the actual system at play. Merits sort of highlight this issue rather than creating it.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Comics

[ScarZ]

Agreed

[Hansen]

OK