21st GM Defusal Kits

[Butter]

Name: Spec Ops Commander Blackout | Butters

RP Rank: CMD

Suggestion: All 21st GM and KU  Members Should Spawn in With Defuse Kits including all LORE EOD Characters as well inside SO BDE.  21st SO will take priority in Tech and KU specializing in both EOD and Tech and other applicable candidates inside of SO BDE

Implementation: Just give All EOD Specialized Members including SO BDE, and All 21st GM / KU Members The Defuse Kit

Lore: All The Lore For This https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/21st_Nova_Corps

Weapons: Defuse Kit                   

Other: 

[Claw]

+1

[Misfit]

+1 It makes somewhat of some sense to have EOD personnel have EOD items. Just like ENG have repair kits and MED have med packs

[Kortnul]

+1 I 100% agree with this suggestion and honestly shouldn't even have to be one, 21st are the bomb defusal experts so it makes complete sense that all 21st troopers should have defusal kits.

[Paladin_]

+1 I don't mind SO losing EOD as long as 21st gets it

[Crimson]

I do have to ask. Where in quotes does it say the 21st Nova Core or the Galactic Marines does EOD. Not to mention this post is very similar to the last one.

[Tinovious]

-1

[Goten]

-1 I control F'd the words Explosive, Defusal, and EOD, on both canon and legends articles and nothing showed up. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Goten
Info

[Butter]

34 minutes ago, Goten said:

-1 I control F'd the words Explosive, Defusal, and EOD, on both canon and legends articles and nothing showed up. 

may I just say that the 21st have long specialized in EOD on this server and long before I even joined the 21st. Adding the defuse kits was like a slap in the face to the 21st and were added without even consulting the 21st or asking how this would affect us as a whole. A lot of our requirements are based around trainings and hosting them to people. The 21st has many things one of them I have always stood under is that we Specialize in EOD so I believe that GM's at least should have the Honor of receiving the defusal kits.

[Eclipse]

8 minutes ago, Butter said:

may I just say that the 21st have long specialized in EOD on this server and long before I even joined the 21st. Adding the defuse kits was like a slap in the face to the 21st and were added without even consulting the 21st or asking how this would affect us as a whole. A lot of our requirements are based around trainings and hosting them to people. The 21st has many things one of them I have always stood under is that we Specialize in EOD so I believe that GM's at least should have the Honor of receiving the defusal kits.

SO BDE had EOD before 21st to my knowledge.

[KillJoy]

+1 nothing wrong with them having it on jobs. Shit I wish 332nd had our on jobs or at least just a Trooper but. There is no need, however this makes them special. Every Battalion has their own things. 41st Barc, AT RT. 104th All vehicles. Rancor has ARC. CG Arrest and controls the discipline. DU has Shields. SO BDE are the big docks. Naval has ENG, Pilot or at least ATC, MED, and for some reason has AV fucking 7 Cannon. 21st has Boarding but no one uses that but then these days, so just let them have EOD as well. By the way 212th and 501st get fucked on the training hosting but has a shit ton of Jobs as a trade off. It is what is at the end of the day none of this impacts our real life unless you get paid or stress over a game.  

[Gadget]

16 hours ago, Crimson said:

I do have to ask. Where in quotes does it say the 21st Nova Core or the Galactic Marines does EOD. Not to mention this post is very similar to the last one.

I can answer this but I will preface it doesn't specifically say EOD.

 

GM were known for ship boarding , it make sense for them to require EOD for blasting through and destroying doors and ships.

 

It would also be beneficial to have more EOD personnel on base rather than like 4 or 8 SOBDE who aren't always on or are busy or doing something else. EOD is a key rp on the server and it has now been relegated to and already "gated" group of players. It will also help with hosting the training and mean SOBDE EODs won't be hosting it when they are out of combat all the time.

 

GM have been the EOD guys on the server since when I joined in Feb 2018. This will entice member to join GM as well as they are currently struggling for member within 21st due to SO Being the same load out but with a cloak.

 

Again no specific data on them being trained in it specifically bare them, in lore, being some of the best troopers the Republic had.

 

[Piff]

-1 should be treated like any other battalion, give it to who needs it, not who wants it

[Guac]

-1

[Forseen]

I was planning to stay out of this discussion as I have decided to try and step back from getting involved in these decisions and let the new server-based leadership take the reigns, such as our lovely Directors @Wolfro & @Gears. However, I see some major flaws in some of the things in this thread.

 

19 hours ago, Corporal_Misfit said:

+1 It makes somewhat of some sense to have EOD personnel have EOD items. Just like ENG have repair kits and MED have med packs

19 hours ago, Kortnul said:

+1 I 100% agree with this suggestion and honestly shouldn't even have to be one, 21st are the bomb defusal experts so it makes complete sense that all 21st troopers should have defusal kits.

With EOD being taken away from 21st due to them having an excess of trainings that they give, they are no longer considered EOD personnel or bomb defusal experts. There was never any lore behind this, and the only reason they received the trainings for TECH & EOD in the first place was because the SOBDE leadership were on really good terms with 21st leadership when SOBDE decided they didn't want it anymore and so gave it off to their friends in 21st under the stipulation that SOBDE could still assist in hosting these trainings which they no longer are able to.

 

16 hours ago, Butter said:

may I just say that the 21st have long specialized in EOD on this server and long before I even joined the 21st. Adding the defuse kits was like a slap in the face to the 21st and were added without even consulting the 21st or asking how this would affect us as a whole. A lot of our requirements are based around trainings and hosting them to people. The 21st has many things one of them I have always stood under is that we Specialize in EOD so I believe that GM's at least should have the Honor of receiving the defusal kits.

If 21st had been given the defusal kits then it wouldn't have been given to every job, it would have gone to your engineer job (which I believe is your pilots) and all pilots will most likely be getting them in the hotfix as long as the addon is working as intended. The defusal kit was given to SOBDE EOD members as a means of stress testing the bombs live on server with a small amount of members and collecting data before the distribution of a potentially unstable addon to all battalions.

The fact that the battalion wasn't consulted isn't something that will always happen, sometimes decisions will happen without consulting those affected as it may be what server leadership deems as best fit for the server at the time. This is sometimes required as the Directors in their positions are expected to be able to take a step back to look at these decisions objectively from a server-wide standpoint when sometimes people can have unintentional tunnel-vision and only consider their own battalion due to the fact they don't have the knowledge of how other battalions may be operating/performing.

 

16 hours ago, KillJoy said:

Shit I wish 332nd had our on jobs or at least just a Trooper

The option for 332nd jobs was given to the current leader of the 501st at the time, being Rohan when he was XO and there was no Commander Rex. Rohan chose to go with bodygroups for all 501st jobs rather than specific 332nd jobs.

 

16 hours ago, KillJoy said:

This makes them special. Every Battalion has their own things. 41st Barc, AT RT. 104th All vehicles. Rancor has ARC. CG Arrest and controls the discipline. DU has Shields. SO BDE are the big docks. Naval has ENG, Pilot or at least ATC, MED, and for some reason has AV fucking 7 Cannon. 21st has Boarding but no one uses that but then these days, so just let them have EOD as well.

21st currently have the following trainings/priority;

1. TECH.
2. GMACT 1.
3. GMACT 2.
4. GMACT 3.
5. Ship Boarding.
6. EOD (Which they want to have back from SOBDE).
7. UT-AT (Has been requested but no decision made as of yet).

I'm sure they can live with losing one training. Also, 21st is the home battalion to the only members of the republic to be able to cloak other than Omega Squad as well as a unit full of jobs with Westars. For example here; 501st get no trainings, their Torrent Company jobs get no extras & 332nd are bodygroups.

 

19 minutes ago, Gadget said:

GM were known for ship boarding , it make sense for them to require EOD for blasting through and destroying doors and ships.

There are other ways of doing ship infiltration. You guys also have, TECH training to splice doors? You have SO who can cloak and wait for enemies to pass through? You can usually just fly in the same way the droids are flying out? Not having EOD does not invalidate this roleplay.

 

19 minutes ago, Gadget said:

It would also be beneficial to have more EOD personnel on base rather than like 4 or 8 SOBDE who aren't always on or are busy or doing something else.

The entirety of SOBDE was given the training, not just their EOD specific jobs. That means there are currently, 25 members (including Jedi and their Regimental) that can host these trainings. SOBDE are also some of the most active players of the server due to their sign-in requirements.

 

19 minutes ago, Gadget said:

EOD is a key rp on the server and it has now been relegated to and already "gated" group of players.

The TRAINING was given to SOBDE, not the entirety of EOD roleplay. Meaning, if you're in 21st and you want to be EOD trained and do EOD tasks or incorporate them into your ship boarding , you get it from SOBDE. You guys are making it sound like you were told that you're not allowed to do EOD anymore at all. This is not the case.

 

19 minutes ago, Gadget said:

It will also help with hosting the training and mean SOBDE EODs won't be hosting it when they are out of combat all the time.

The only thing they do while out of combat at the moment is host SOBDE tryouts. This gives them a different avenue of the server to be able to explore & will make the server more enjoyable for them as they have a purpose other than just sitting there bored between events.

 

19 minutes ago, Gadget said:

GM have been the EOD guys on the server since when I joined in Feb 2018.

This is straight up, not true. SOBDE had it when I first became a Director in December 2019, it's only been a year. SOBDE had it for the previous 2 years before that and did an extremely good job with it. It was only given to 21st by request of the SOBDE leadership at that time.

 

19 minutes ago, Gadget said:

This will entice member to join GM as well as they are currently struggling for member within 21st due to SO Being the same load out but with a cloak.

There are four reasons this argument doesn't make sense;

1. 21st already have the following trainings in which they run. TECH, GMACT 1, GMACT 2, GMACT 3, External Ship Boarding, Cold Weather Warfare. You guys have also requested the UT-AT be added as a training for 21st and also want to keep EOD, you guys have plenty of other trainings to be able to indulge in.

No battalion should be a one-stop-shop for all trainings. You have to realise that other battalions (Such as 501st, 212th, CG, Dooms Unit) get nothing.

2. If your battalion's only draw is the fact that you have a training that you run, then you're doing something wrong and that should be a reflection of your BCMD & RCMD if nothing is done about it. 21st has an entire unit with Westars and the only unit of troopers outside of SOBDE that can cloak.

3. Other battalions are doing extremely well without trainings for members external from their battalion, for example Doom's Unit. They don't need a training to be special. You can bring up the argument of "but they have shields on some of their jobs", but 21st has cloaks on some jobs and westars on some jobs, so think about that before responding.

4. The SO loadout can be changed with a server suggestion. The fact the battalion hasn't put one up, is not the fault of the rest of the community. The responsibility on the loadout of your battalion is up to leadership of the battalion if they want to allow a suggestion to be made to change it & then community feedback. Can't blame the community if you haven't made a suggestion for it.

 

In conclusion; The battalion is blowing this WAY out of proportion for what it needs to be, however speaking with the Directors could be the first step of changing this, but that communication hasn't happened. Instead it went straight to the forums/discords. Remember our High Command members, Head Admins & Directors are there to listen to your concerns, answer your questions and work with you towards a resolution.

[Gadget]

Wait on sec @Forseen, as I think you are misreading or i am or er both are.

I am more for the defusal kit as I am informed you need that to defuse a bomb to be added, but I may be incorrect. Also does all SOBDE have the kit or all can host the training. I am on LOA atm so I'm out of the loop a bit. As more kits is good for options and such otherwise a Game master could put down a bomb like "SOBDE can do it" and they happen to be busy atm or whatever.

Having them hosting the training alongside SOBDE due to the 21st being henones hosting the training  since I joined along with SOBDE. I am aware 21st got full ownership like 2019 or something I believe I was Bacara at the time or atleast CMD. I dont care who is in charge of it tbh. And if you don't want 21st to host the training then fine. I mentioned hosting it as the fact we have been doing it, but not something we need to survive, so to speak.

GMACTs is more in an interbattalion thing like a training sim but they have been up in the air last I heard.  TECH, thats discussion has already occurred.

I am happy to leave SOBDE in charge of hosting it and see what happens. If there are issues then it can be discussed and adapted go solve them. 

I want SO load out/job numbers/method of entry to change but 21st/SO don't want to neuter them or change them and I'm not gonna force a change.

 

Just realised this is coming off kinda hostile but this isn't the intention. I'll leave it with this closing statement.

 

I agree with you on most points and such but the man factor I would like to see from my point is more the defusal kit but not the training hosting part. I mentioned it as a possible inclusion. Sorry if I came across as arrogant in my previous message but I was going off of my patchy ass memory which has been eroded away by uni and lockdown.

 

Anyway, I am happy to leave and let live and see how SOBDE goes, if its subpar, make adjustments, if not then boom, leave it.

 

Also UTAT I see as a meme and I dont want 21st to get more training, it's more they were already doing EOD. Like the week before the update 13 were hosted. If 21st want to use the UT-AT then get trained in it.

[Forseen]

23 minutes ago, Gadget said:

I am more for the defusal kit as I am informed you need that to defuse a bomb to be added, but I may be incorrect. Also does all SOBDE have the kit or all can host the training. I am on LOA atm so I'm out of the loop a bit. As more kits is good for options and such otherwise a Game master could put down a bomb like "SOBDE can do it" and they happen to be busy atm or whatever.

The change that was made was SOBDE having the training leadership. This means they can teach others how to host the trainings if they chose to & that everyone can do EOD, they're just in charge of hosting the trainings.

With this being the case, it doesn't make sense for the entire battalion of 21st to have the Diffuse kits as they won't be hosting the trainings anymore. So when it is added to all battalions, it will go to the engineer job (pilots).

[Bro]

-1, giving everyone in a battalion something a single job is allowed to have makes the job useless, like a prior 21st suggestion when asking for a westar for the entire battalion (Making ARC/ARC training useless). I have the hard belief you don't need EOD tools for ever job but instead giving them to the intended jobs so everyone has a chance to do EOD and not relying on the "swarm" of 21st. In addition using "Lore" as an excuse to be OP or to get advantage is ridiculous. And reading your lore page it doesn't ever state that you are specifically EOD/Tech/Boarding parties. Especially when we had other battalions who do those things and try not to claim it or take it. Please keep balancing in mind when making more suggestions to help people out when making choices. <3

[Marvel]

-1

Damnit I gotta train EOD again

[Gadget]

53 minutes ago, Forseen said:

The change that was made was SOBDE having the training leadership. This means they can teach others how to host the trainings if they chose to & that everyone can do EOD, they're just in charge of hosting the trainings.

With this being the case, it doesn't make sense for the entire battalion of 21st to have the Diffuse kits as they won't be hosting the trainings anymore. So when it is added to all battalions, it will go to the engineer job (pilots).

Okay, I thought it was only SOBDE getting the kit. Alright all good now. And I did put a vote in for this suggestion so I will now

 

-1 its not necessary.

[Cannon]

+1

[TheCyan]

Forseen took the show here... +1 to whatever the hell Forseen is saying tho

[Mitchell]

12 minutes ago, TheCyan said:

Forseen took the show here... +1 to whatever the hell Forseen is saying tho

You are voting on someone's comment and not the actual suggestion...
If you are agreeing with Forseen then you would -1 this suggestion.

Anyways. -1 Forseen basically reiterated my main points about you guys already having enough shit as is.

[Gears]

Due to ongoing changes and discussions with high command. This suggestion will be Denied.

As of right now the trainings on the server are being evaluated and an announcement on what will happen moving forward will be made in the next coming days.
If you have any comments or concerns on this, please feel free to contact your regimental commander on this matter.