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After reading about this I don't really think these are the things we discussed about changing ARC previously. From what I understand what you wanted to do before was to make it into 2 stages. One being the normal selection process with some minor changes that benefit induvial players instead of the entire team. The 2nd thing you mentioned you guys mentioned to me was the removal of Weapons & Tactics as an individual part and combining it with Leadership to see if they candidates will use these new teachings in this part. These things I mentioned were the changes I highly agreed with. The changes you are expressing and suggesting now I think are going into the total opposite direction of where we should be going. I understand this process gives the ARC training more meaning that the person truly had to earn this rank and show that they have the ability to be an ARC trooper. Also for the Recertification thing it is basically a wipe.... You're having all ARC trained personnel to have to this entire 6 day process. Basically starting from ground up. There are just a lot of things I disagree with in these changes. I think differently from how things should be done but I just really wanted to express my opinion about this. My main overall standing: I understand your goals for this entire thing is the output of quality ARC troopers, Is making the process like this better maybe it is? Is there better solutions that can make this a lot simpler most likely. I just don't agree with the changes you guys are wanting to do making it longer and within a 4-6 day process. I just don't like that it doesn't sit well with me. Also the recertification is basically a wipe so I don't agree with that either. There are a lot more things I disagree with but thats the main things. -1

-1 some one removed my previous message as i was editing it. I tried to propose 3 different ideas to u guys, to change the system to make it accessible to people with terrible schedules or a alternative system that was a 2nd way to become ARC which brought in more recruits that have times that didnt work with the proposed trainings. you guys then blew me off and never let me propose the idea. if possible id like to promote my ideas to you guys for a change. that might actually help and get more guys rather than making it almost inaccessible to some people with bad work schedules. DM in discord if u would like to hear them. im in the 212th discord as Sixes.

-1 not really worth the hassle tbh, took me like 2 years to get ARC in the first place being an EU andy this shit seems like a drag. I also thought there were issues with the 3 ARC trainings we already have being hosted consistently. However with the changes I'd be more than happy to attend the new trainings optionally at my own pace rather than in the small amount of time 30 days is.

In my eyes, I have to ask, why the change? A lot of Alphas and ARC troopers are very comfortable with their slot on their job, and the current way of hosting the 3-stage tryout is, while not perfect, the best way to accommodate for majority of people. In a perfect world, it's a cool idea. However, I'm willing to bet nobody is saying, "I'm gonna take AN ENTIRE WEEKS worth of time to keep the whitelist that I earned." I know you don't have to do the days back-to-back, I know you can take pauses, I know all of this. But where is the logistical process? Who is going to be hosting ARC D1-6? Is it going to be like Youngling trials where if enough trainees show up, they can request a Day, or is it when RANCOR feels it's necessary? Secondly, does this increase the quality of ARC troopers? Or does it make it more tedious to become one? Third, is it going to be SIMs with all the other trainees, or is it individual effort? And if the latter, how do you accommodate for the amount of time it would take? -1 to the new training style, if I was an NCO in RANCOR I think I would hate doing these. It seems like a massive time sink to maybe improve the knowledge and tactics (?) of an ARC trooper I understand the huge sentiment with "This is not a wipe" but I feel it's more of, "We made this thing and you have to try it OR ELSE." and forcing people to do something under the threat of their character is already a negative for most. MED and ENG wipes don't get the same flak because they're fundamentally similar between training updates. However, even with the EASIEST trainings (EOD for example), telling someone EOD is getting wiped would piss them off. Especially if you said, "You have to try this new 3-step EOD training!". And this "wipe" in particular is because you're asking for SIX HOURS of online time (over the course of a month albeit) for what purpose? Why can't new recruits attend two "days" in a day? My only assumption is that multiple days won't be hosted on the same day for recruits. If an ARC trooper re-certifying can do days 1-3 in one go, what purpose does gridlocking a new recruit have? Let people complete their training at their own pace. If you want to increase the quality of people getting the whitelist, whether by vetting them or training them better, it doesn't have to be through this (and I hate to say this) almost tyrannical, tedious process. And if you want ARC to maintain its popularity, I wouldn't threaten whitelist removal after a month of not doing training sessions. -1 For re-cert

Unfortunately, this suggestion has been DENIED. If the same suggestion is submitted again within 60 DAYS of this post it will be automatically denied. // LOCKED // MOVED TO [CW] SERVER SUGGESTIONS - DENIED

-1 i agree with Ratio and Comics

-1 some of the people that already host the trainings complain about hosting them. But now if you had the 6 day training they'll complain even more.

+1 The main reason why ppl want ARC to be revamped is because of the lack of quality of the ppl who go through the program and have the certification already. The only way to improve ARC across the board is to force ppl to recertify with the new changes, it defeats the purpose of changing the ARC program. Gmod barely sees new players now anyways, this would give a lot of ppl on the server something to do as well, instead of just bhoping around base mindlessley. Now 6 days is a little bit much, thats like joining a big Arma unit but I think it can be done since ARC is an OPTIONAL program. ARC are supposed to be the best of the best in the battalions, if cpl joe shmoe can out maneuver an ARC trooper, shit aint right. Serious RP is non existent on this server, the ability to have a somewhat more serious thing here is amazing. If you dont want to see seriousness, dont join ARC. I can also say that as an Arma player, some of this training goes beyond gmod in a lot of ways. There are lots of opportunities to practice leadership and communication skills, trainings like this only build character and they are optional for those who dont give a damn.

People complain every time Med or Eng is wiped. This isn't because they hate change this is because they getting retrained for nothing. This is the big issue with the suggestion, people don't want it wiped because every wipe changed nothing and promises made here don't seem to be changing anything like that either. Yeah it's not the "end of the world" but it's just not preferable. No one is claiming it's the end of the server, this is just a lie lmao it's a public form, and he asked for opinions. If it's a useless change why would we support it? If it changes nothing but wipes a bunch of people why would the public be in favour of it. If the suggestion was open about the good reforms it was making people would probably easily support it. But it seems like another classic RANCOR wipe with no change at all. Extending the trainings would look good to us if they said what the contents would be. W&T seems to have been turned into 2 days but what are 3&4 there's no information I can see. It just seems all cosmetic, of course people are gonna oppose a wipe if it adds nothing. Everyone wants RANCOR to change and improve their training but this just doesn't seem to be fixing any of these issues

Rancor BCMD try not to wipe ARC trainings challenge (IMPOSSIBLE) You say it's not a wipe but it is effectively a wipe. They need to do all the trainings except Selections which means it's basically just doing the whole new training. I don't see a difference except a larger frame of time to do it. This is a wipe and I think it's a bit dishonest to frame it as not being one. I also don't really see how this is much different, I dunno maybe I am insane but it sounds like more W&T with extra SIMs/Tests on top. I don't think anyone who goes through ARC training does it for the training, they do it for the job and you can pump the hours and time spend listening to some guy read off a doc but people don't go to trainings to learn shit. They go to trainings to be able to do stuff. maybe it will be more involved and interesting than some bloke just talking at you but I still don't think that gets rid of the underlying fact people do trainings for the reward, not to learn shit. This sounds like change for the sake of change, this doesn't seem to be addressing any of the actual issues I've heard people complain about it just seems to prolong the time for which people have to endure already very unpopular trainings hard -1 on the recerts, that is a wipe stop saying it's not I am undecided on the whole new system but I cannot see it ever making ARC troopers any better. It feels like any attempts at this from RANCOR will create more dislike towards ARC shit in general. so leaning -1 -1 on ARCT. Just let them pass the program then give em it. Seems completely pointless to award people before they've even finished Just a question, did you ask ARC from other battalions or people who are trained in general if they had criticisms of the system or even possible suggestions for improvement? It'd be nice to hear you talked to the community rather than made an idea purely from inside RANCOR hc.

Dont know what forums mod removed my vote, but -1, agreed with what Crimson said

I don't agree with the recerting ^ -1

So I think this may lead to an answer that HOPEFULLY helps actually relieve some of the tension in here. Already the trainings are few and far between. Hard enough for people to attend as is. Is there a plan to allow lower ranks to host the trainings? What steps will be in place to allow this to be a smooth training system and not something that's "Once every 2 weeks at one time only and if you don't make it at an NA time slot then you'll never be an ARC?" Is RANCOR gearing up to begin actively hosting these at irregular times/intervals as needed to help the server catch back up once this is potentially implemented?

Gonna be honest. the ARCT Part seems kinda pointless. Its always been a limited position on the server and I personally believe unless you fully pass you shouldnt have the whitelist, it just seems weird to someone who hasnt gone through the full extent of the program to just be allowed to run about in what is one of the most powerful loadouts on the server. I have a couple questions. these 6 days. I personally see your point of view if all these days actually require someone to be in game and doing things, but if some of days just requires you to be in a channel while a rancor officer/nco reads out a document in a monotone voice then it can honestly be thrown into a day with actual physical training. For me this looks like your just adding more days to add padding to what already is a big training to the server. I want to know how much of this actually needs to be done on the day and not just being given a document for someone to study? Day 1 looks like it could be within day 2. People have time in their lives, I understand your giving fair chance for people to get on. But as much as I dislike this statement.. this is just a Gmod server man. Second question, The issue I had with the previous and current system is when these days are gonna be conducted, how available are they gonna be. Are EU people going to have to be up past midnight just to get a 30 minute training or even an hour+ tryout. This is so dependent on a battalions activity and to go from 3 to 6 days to arc people may be having to wait a long time compared to previously. Im not a fan of wipes, which yes is ironic coming from me. But we have been through how many ARC Wipes now? It just seems like a cop out if the main purpose of the trainings and the standards of the ARC hasnt changed, then there isnt a reason for a wipe other than clenaing up your spreadsheets. -1

Two different posts should have been made under a different section. One pertaining to the changes that are happening and one about voting for recertification's. This could have avoided confusion. -1 on recertification's. I don't see this as necessary to force everyone to redo something they have attained and still actively use. Nothing drastically is changing at it's core just the format is changing. If the format is changing why force a wipe? Unless a drastic core is changing on the server were everyone is going to re-learn something completely new (mechanics wise, drastic shift in gameplay style on the server, etc...) then it isn't needed. Questions: What is the end goal of this change? What kind of "ARC Troopers" are you trying to "produce" with these changes?

-1 So, just so I'm not making a cookie-cutter response, I'm mainly putting in this vote simply because I'm against training wipes in general. I believe that at times you need to be reevaluated (something I would actually be open to do it if I, say got pulled aside for it) but to lose everything isn't really an ideal thought. I remember first time around I had my ARC training for years and Dennis' revamping of the trainings came around and (love you Dennis) it wasn't substantial whatsoever and the fail rate was just higher. I actually believe that some middle ground can be reached in this so it's not a repeat of what happened before. That being said, if it does come to me having to get recerted, I will actually go to the recerts. I just expect to learn something valuable and new because if I'm going to show up and relearn what bounding and ace reports are all over again, then it'll just make me wonder why I'm even there. Something that comes to mind and really worries me is that this is just going to turn into an overcomplicated version of what we have now regardless of the layout that this provided--the curriculum being vague and not necessarily giving us an idea of why we need two sets of trainings days and two different SIMs. I'm sure there are reasons, but I don't want a repeat of "NOT YOUR GRANDMA'S TECH TRAINING" to start applying to ARC. If I'm missing something please let me know so I can give a more educated response.

Read 7. since you skipped over that might wanna just read the suggestion to begin with since you clearly never did. +1 ARC isn't special anymore with the way it currently is

Did you read anything Brooklyn wrote or just read like 4 comments, its a 6 day training you can do over multiple months of time. Its not 6 days in a row

Having read and re-read the OP, I'll go ahead and throw in my two cents. Neutral on the Training changes. They could be good, but I'm super weary of making stuff take longer. Getting ARC trainings already are a huge pain, so unless you are seriously going to ramp up how many are hosted this may just make it much harder to get things moving. Also, I'm curious: If people have passed selections, but for some reason or another haven't completed the other two, do they have to re-do selections under the new system you are thinking of implementing? +1 on the ARCT. I like the idea and I'm in favor of letting people "play around" with their new toys, yes there is potential for abuse but as long as its monitored this shouldn't be a big issue. -1 on mandatory recerts. Unless you are going to significantly change the content of the trainings, there is no need. And if you ARE significantly changing the trainings, well, then this is a wipe in all but name. Note that I said mandatory recerts. If you instead allowed recert as a current Arc as an option rather than mandatory I think you'd get a lot less pushback, people that aren't interested in retaking it won't complain and those that want to be caught up to snuff will have the option and ability to do so. Anderson

Ok so since this stupid quote has to be at the top I will start with this. I know that I am not ARC Certified so no one is probably going to give a shit about my opinion. What I will say about this is that I do not agree that they do not get their trainings removed. It is a completely new program where everyone STILL has to go through selections just like they did. The main difference is that if I pass selections and fail on day 3 I have to do it again. They did not do anything extra nor did they earn their day 3 or day 6 pass so I personally do not agree with this. I feel that it is weird to still require someone to pass selections NOW and then those in the past that specifically only passed selections are cool to fail day 3 or day 6. What I will say about the 6 day program however is that this is a great idea. I am Air Assault Qualified in the actual United States Military and it was an 11 day course that tested you. You had to make sure you could climb a rope on day 1 at the end of an obstacle course after being smoked (forced to do rigorous exercise for anywhere between 10 minutes and 45 minutes) for about 30 minutes. If you could not pass that obstacle course on day 1 you automatically failed the course. You then spent Phase 1 in the class room which was followed by a test to make sure you knew everything and if you failed the test you then failed the course. Phase 2 was learning how to Slingload different equipment underneath the various types of helicopters and then again followed by a test which if you failed the test you failed the course. Phase 3 began which was repelling down a tower to learn and then repelling out of a helicopter at about 85 ft. If you could not pass this phase again you failed. Literally on graduation day you had a 12 mile ruck march that was required to be completed in 3 hours with 60 pounds of gear again this was literally on graduation day and if you could not complete it you failed the course. I am fully in support of this model of ARC Trainings however I feel that if 1 person fails day 3 or 6 they should be required to start over from step 1 no matter who they are because if you are ARC trained and you come back to the server and fail day 3 or even day 6 you clearly need to be retrained from day 1 INCLUDING THE SELECTIONS. I understand that me not being ARC Trained probably means that my opinion doesnt mean a damn.. but the fact that I served 4 years in the military and passed a school that has a 35% pass rate I feel my opinion should be atleast SEMI valid....

This is funny. Alrighty my opinion is quite basic. As is, we host ARC trainings dominantly in EST based towards members in the Americas. EU times are neglected more cases then not. So wiping and moving trainings more spread out does nothing besides says we do something through out the week. That's the honest truth. Was to what we can change within the trainings I am for. I think Weapons and Tactics does neither of which it claims to train. Most of the tactics in the trainings are already taught outside of Rancor or are heavily outdated and or do not apply to Gmod AI. So for a rework of trainings I am for however I am against spreading them out since it offers no difference. Secondly, as for wiping the training. It will make no difference. We will get the same people with the trainings. All it does is say I reworked it on my description. Same goes for re-certs. Just a lazy wipe. People are more interested in passing then what is inside of the training. Now that is not everyone but that speaks for most of the server population. A good example is when we do re-certs. Looking at the test scores it shows most of them barely pass or don't know what we have down on our trainings. You know, I know. Conclusion. I personally want change to the trainings. I want to see them actually make people better at events so we can do harder events with more challenge that isn't more droids. So anything to move that forward I will always support. However, This change is not it. If I am honest this seems derived from experiences from other servers if I am honest. It also is long to be long. I would like to see a revise and my opinion might change however as it stands. -1 to Wiping ARC +1 to revise the Training.

-1 No. 6+ hours for a week of training? Terrible. 1. The timeline is WAAAAAAY too long and that's assuming you don't fail anything. 2. You gonna host it all by yourself? Cause you are gonna need your Rancor guys to host it and you already have a hard enough time getting people to run current ARC trainings from time to time. 3. This is way beyond what serious level of play that the current player base would want. 4. Just change up W/T and Leadership a bit if you feel that there should be more taught during both.

I am going to remain mostly impartial for the time being, but the entire player base does not need to be ARC trained. These trainings would be for those who seek the more serious aspects of the server and wish to be a staple of the server, not everyone needs to go through these, it is a choice. Read the above statement, if you don't want that serious experience and want to play for the relaxed aspect of the server... Don't go to the trainings?

Just want to touch on this point. Currently, the 3 ARC Trainings we have create a roughly estimated time of 4 hours and 30min Maximum. These trainings, only add 10 minutes. For a total of 4 hours and 40 minutes. Not to mention this is more spread out, so people are sitting and waiting for 2 hours a day to complete trainings. On your previous point #3. Only 1 person is required to host Day 1,2,4,5. Then for Days 3 and 6, it requires a minimum of 2 people. This puts significantly less strain on Rancor to host as we don't need 4-5 members + staff every time. Hopefully this clears up some of your issues with this

I agree that changes should be made to the ARC trainings. Change is good. I don't agree with the recertifications. I just feel this is unneeded. +1 for revamping the ARC trainings. -1 for recertifications. I hope with the addition of ARCT again eARC can makes its return and when you fail you get eLiminated. I'll be here all night.

Look at one point I'd probably of 100% agreed with y'all and honestly these trainings would be dope for a much more serious server or hell an Arma server maybe. But this is garry's mod, and a very relaxed server. I've thought that ARC trainings are flawed and need revamping but this is going very overboard and I don't think fits within the archetype that the server is trynna fit into. -1

-1 Bigman how the hell can you suggest making it even longer and more draining than it already is? Its a garrys mod server my man I grasp you want it to be harder because its meant to be the best of the best, ironically being harder than something that should be harder to get into, by that I mean RC. The current system already sucks for EU people as it is and I really do not think that changing it to be even longer and more time consuming is a) fair and b) logical, if you so desperately want the process to make people into better gmod starwars soldiers then actually make good changes to the system instead of saying lets make it take even longer and be more irritating to get, oh and lets throw in if you fail on day 3 you can go right back to square 1 after selections, I really don't understand whose thought process this was but I really think they should rethink it because its just plain stupid. If people do end up doing the trainings may god bless them because this suggestion is just ridiculous. Keep in mind as is its already extremely annoying to be on and available to play at times the current trainings even happen, even more so for EU like I stated, unless as somebody else stated you are gonna host more which I highly, highly doubt then big nono from me.

-1 Not only are you suggesting essentially wiping ARC by making them do all the trainings again, you guys are ignoring ARC officers+ in other battalions and blatantly making it a pain in the ass for people that have already completed the trainings. Why not instead let ARC trainings be battalionized and let ARCL's decide how they do the trainee program for each battalion or set guidelines for their battalionized trainee program. If you guys are wanting to kill Rancor activity for having everyone basically starting from Day 1 again, if the suggestion does get approved, that's where it looks like it's heading. If you want to here more info about a new Battalionized ARC Trainee system, contact Sixes in the 212th Attack Battalion Discord

as a wise bacta once said "change is good" +1 */j* bacta is stupid but i do still +1 nonetheless, marvel is right.

This is a very serious suggestion that we wish to make and hope that you, as the reader and community member, really read this before voting. That is all we ask. Disclaimer: When I say "We", this means Rancor High Command. Claw, Satan, Noodles, and myself. The topic I would like to bring to you today is about ARC Training and how it is being changed in the future. I will go through and explain how it is changing, and what possibilities can happen as a result of this change. Again, I really do hope you read this in it's entirety, as we are trying to make the ARC Program better as a whole, and not just trying to ruffle feathers for the sake of it. With that being said, thank you and let's begin. Name: Brooklyn RP Rank: XO Suggestion: We want to change ARC Trainings from what it currently is, a 3 staged tryout, to a 6 staged training that teaches and improves on the people who attend. I will explain this in detail. ARC Training Changes: To start, ARC Trainings as it stands right now is basically a tryout that upon passing gives you a permanent fallback on one of the best whitelists on the server. While the fallback itself wouldn't change, we want to change what the ARC Program is and move away from this tryout that don't really teach you things outside of the trainings itself. Weapons and Tactics is our only informational training that teaches you anything, with Selections and Leadership only being SIM's that are pass or fail with no incentive. We want to change ARC Training, or better said, ARC Tryouts, to be what it always should've been: A Program designed to better a players skills and ability, while teaching, mentoring, and improving on oneself without the limitations of no knowledge. This being said, I will give you a brief rundown as how this would work, without spoiling the contents of what the new trainings would consist of. You can only do 1 Day in a single day. Example: Day 1 - Monday / Day 2 - Tuesday / and so on and so forth. These do not have to be back to back days, you can go at your own pace. Selections will still be around to get people into the Program. Upon passing you will be granted ARCT. The ARCT Program will be talked about down below. Day 1 & 2 of this new program will consist of learning days. Day 1 being informational, and Day 2 being Basic Skill Training. These days are not failable, and instead is a time where you do it until you understand it. Day 1 takes around 20 minutes Day 2 takes around 1 hour Day 3 is your first knowledge and skills test. We will run you through a SIM that encompasses what you learned on Day 1 & 2. This Day is failable, however, instead of being stuck at this point, whatever you failed on, you will go back to. For example, if you failed on Day 1 Concepts, you will go back to Day 1, relearn what you might need, and then you can reattempt Day 3. Upon passing, you will move on. A concept we really want people to understand is we want to know you are listening, learning, and improving on what we are teaching you. This isn't to punish or make you do the same thing over and over, but again we want you to improve and get better as a player and as a future member of the ARC Program. Day 3 takes around 1 hour Day 4 & 5 are the same type of days as Day 1 & 2. These are not failable days that will obviously will have different concepts than the first 2 Days. Day 4 takes around 20 minutes Day 5 takes around 30 minutes Day 6 is your graduation Day. This Day is failable, but is also your final step to becoming a fully trained ARC Trooper. This training will encompass everything you learned from days 1-5. Upon passing, you will no longer be and ARCT. Again, this being a failable day, you would have to retake the course that you failed on for grading before you can retake Day 6. Day 6 takes about 1 hour and 30 minutes ARC Trainee (ARCT) Program: The ARCT Program was a concept that Rancor utilized a lot in 2017 - 2020, but has since then been phased out for not being needed. However, we intend to make this have purpose again. Let's get into what this ARCT Program will be. Obtained after Passing Selections The biggest change to the ARCT Program is this: Once you become an ARCT, you will have access to the ARC Whitelist right away. Upon passing Selections, you will have a 2 week time period to complete your ARC Trainings before losing access to the whitelist. (Please note this does not mean you have to restart your Trainings. This just means you get a free trial to be on ARC while you go through your Training Period.) When running around on the ARC whitelist as an ARCT. You must have ARCT in your name instead of ARC. While a ARCT you may not become a ARC Lore Character, attend Alpha Designations, or hold ARC Leadership in a battalion ARC Recertification: I know, I know, but bare with me here for a minute. This is not a Wipe. Again, I ask you read in full what this entails before making your judgement. This is how the ARC Recert will work: All ARC Trained individuals will have to go through the 6 Training Days to keep their ARC Training Current ARC Trained individuals will not have to retake Selections. Instead, they will start on Day 1. Unlike new ARCTs, ARCs who require recertification can run through as many days as needed in 1 day. For Example, I can complete Day 1-3 at one time. Upon completing Day 1. A 30 Day timer will begin. Should you not complete the 6 Trainings in that 30 Days, your trainings will be stripped. Failing Day 3 or Day 6 will not get your trainings removed. All you will have to do is redo what you failed on, and try again. Again, you can do as many in 1 Day at a time. These 30 Days do not start at the same time for everyone. They only start when you complete your Day 1. During this time period, you will not lose a lore character, ARCO/L Positions, or Alpha Designation. You will keep them until you pass Day 6 as long as the 30 Days does not expire. You can ask for time extensions. We know Real Life is a thing. If you cannot do this in the 2 weeks, you can contact Rancor Command for an extension. Rancor will actively pursue current ARC Slot Personnel, Lore Characters, and Alpha Designated Personnel as you will need it first to maintain your position. The only way to not pass is to be lazy or push it off. I'll be honest about that. This looks like a lot, but I will put your mind at ease. Reread the ARC Training Changes Section and look at the time it takes for each training. These are maximum times only, so they can take less time. Implementation: ARC Training Changes: These changes will be happening with ARC Regardless, the reason I wrote it all out is so you, as a community, can understand where we are coming from when we are literally revamping all of the ARC Program. This is not the voting topic. However we will look at any feedback you all give. ARC Trainee (ARCT) Program: Again, not the voting topic, but we will look into any feedback given on the topic. ARC Recertification: This is the voting topic. I know people who have been effected by an ARC Recert in the past most likely still has grudges against it, but I hope you read and understand why we want to make a change this big. That will be all. Thank you for reading and giving this idea a chance.