Chambers Response

[Chambers]

So before the "This is so late why didn't you post it earlier" I was specifically told by the founders I was not allowed to respond an told me not post or message anyone.

I was able to convince them that things needed to be said and sweeping them under the rug didn't help anything.

*This is a long explanation (7 pages)  and attempts to address the things brought in by Spooky and others against me.*

Read the whole thing as it contains a lot of shit in there.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14exgyVYSeRRuIudp7uFkOj7QmZLIXghC5x9a0AvadfU/edit?usp=sharing

Off I go back on my "vacation"

 

[Craigary]

Oof 

[Spooky]

BANDWAGONING ≠ MUTUAL AGREEMENT

the reason why the suggestion went up is because of the MUTUAL AGREEMENT from the COMMUNITY that ARQ should not be a thing/in ARC.

bbstine put across the point of what we meant in the PM screenshots

it's called nsfw section for porn, people dont walk down the street in slut suits

>talk to egg, remove egg, expect us to know about AT-RT agreement

 

on top of this

41st did not want to remove ARQ because Logic was late. We wanted to remove it because we didn't like how it was just stuck into the ARC process and how we HAD to go to it. As a response, YOU SAID TO US THAT WE HAD TO GO. Scouts are NOT ARF. We didn't have to go. We were never being malicious about it. We didn't like the idea, and how they had control over 2/3 of the land vehicles.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Spooky

[Hero]

@Carter i would lock this 

NOT BECAUSE U DONT WANT REPONSES BUT TOO FURTHER REDUCE DRAMA AND FLAME.  Or at least that’s what i think. You can give ur explanation ( a pretty good one i see ur point of view now) and go on and just let it settle. By keeping it open let’s be honest people are just gonna reeeeee in here.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Hero

[Logic]

I also mentioned that if they were going to do that maybe include 41st if they wanted to (They didn’t want to involve them cause surprise they think 41st is too mingey) and I told them they had to at least offer 41st a chance to participate in it.

Grum said he was going to talk to Egg and I tried to coordinate a meeting between the two. (Egg maybe still has the chat logs on 41st end)

Interesting, with the removal of Egg none of this was brought to any other officers

 

Anything with 91st, Rancor, and 41st was decided by the BCMDS regarding ARQ, I didn’t come up with any of it.

Again no BCMD

 

I then get contacted by a 91st member (not sure who it was, it was in TS) saying that they were getting denied AT-RT training for no reason, asked for a name they said it was Bean.

 

Not even 5 mins later I get a message from another 91st member (an officer) saying that his guys are getting denied the AT-RT training for dumb reasons

Objection, Heresay because I was blamed for this first and I never even hosted an AT-RT training

 

Whatever he was late to ARQ sucks but it's on 4 times a week and only takes 30 min's and he has a month to attend it to be re-trained (not a big deal Selections can take weeks to even attend selection again)

As you can tell I'm very triggered in that PM, very clearly throwing insults at you about how I was late. -SARCASM

 

So at this point I am quite annoyed getting to the point of being quite PO’d about this situation, then it gets mentioned to me that 41st has decided to bandwagon and get it removed because Logic got denied because he was late.

Yes I very obviously changed the mind of the entire server by posting in OOC: "+1/-1 Remove ARQ"

 

villainize 91st for implementing ARQ with false information.

 

Seeing 91st being maliciously (in my eyes) attacked with false information when they tried to improve the server and the community as a whole mostly without much input from me (which is a rare occurrence) pushed me over the edge from PO’d to Angry.

 

 

[Rolenth]

...why would you even put this up? It's been dealt with by the Chairmen, you're just restarting a put out fire. 

[zoink]

everyone needs to take a break and take a chill pill I have been permabanned 2 times from this community and a long break from gmod  made me think so everyone should take a break for the holidays and just say hey it's a video game why am I fighting over  a fictional training program

[Sanchez]

Now thats how you put out a fire

[Hero]

Someone please lock it before it gets worse

[Sanchez]

Just now, Hero said:

Someone please lock it before it gets worse

Its not even bad, im waiting for people to get done reading 

[Bbstine]

God damn chambers, you really want this to continue, but I'll stop it here before it gets worse for the communities sake.

I'm locking this.

//Edit

Actually, nevermind. Let's see what the community says.

[Chambers]

4 minutes ago, Spooky said:

BANDWAGONING ≠ MUTUAL AGREEMENT

the reason why the suggestion went up is because of the MUTUAL AGREEMENT from the COMMUNITY that ARQ should not be a thing/in ARC.

bbstine put across the point of what we meant in the PM screenshots

it's called nsfw section for porn, people dont walk down the street in slut suits

>talk to egg, remove egg, expect us to know about AT-RT agreement

I would call it bandwagoning when people do not do proper research before weighing in on a topic and instead base their actions entirely on someone else's opinion without backing or insufficient evidence, but not going to flame for it.

I think I stated I was already quite angry at this point so having another person come at me with incorrect information and then insult me garnered not a great reaction.

No, but go to any public pool/beach and I can tell ya I have seen a lot worse.

At the point, ARQ was being finalized Egg was removed but the documentation had already been completed from my understanding as Grum spoke to Sanchez about what was going on and clarified it.

" you must be ATRT trained by 41st before attending. "

This was in the original announcement, nowhere does it say 91st has jurisdiction over 41st AT-RTs, a matter of fact people gotta go through you before they even qualify for ARF/BARC  training(ARQ).

11 minutes ago, Hero said:

@Carter i would lock this 

NOT BECAUSE U DONT WANT REPONSES BUT TOO FURTHER REDUCE DRAMA AND FLAME.  Or at least that’s what i think. You can give ur explanation ( a pretty good one i see ur point of view now) and go on and just let it settle. By keeping it open let’s be honest people are just gonna reeeeee in here.

Shutting down criticism never helps anything, I tried to advocate that for a while but in my anger, I broke my own rule.

7 minutes ago, Medic said:

...why would you even put this up? It's been dealt with by the Chairmen, you're just restarting a put out fire. 

Specifically? Cause I didn't get to even explain my actions, damnation with representation is kind of shitty for anyone. the fire was never out, the coals were just simmering, would have come back the next time I did something that people might not like, again I barely do anything without founder approval.

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

Funny enough, was just talking to someone about this...

Chambers, the man that once a fire is dying down, pours gasoline on it for the sake of trying to save themselves from the same flames he created. 

You more than entitled to hold your opinion on that, but I have learned that leaving a side untold just causes more problems.

4 minutes ago, Bbstine said:

God damn chambers, you really want this to continue, but I'll stop it here before it gets worse for the communities sake.

I'm locking this.

Do not lock this unless people are actually violating forum rules, I already cleared this by the founders.

[Alexz]

[royer]

@Egg pls come back and fix 41st

 

[Tristan]

Okay. I hit enter way too early, Sorry about that.

What is this?

I understand wanting to respond to the things you're accused of. I understand that more than anyone, but this? This looks like you swinging back. You attained the position of Director, which means you put in work and was actually competent enough to make it up high.

It isn't that people like Me, or Medic, or Egg, or even Fizzik ((all people who have been around here for a hella long time, or basically anyone from the IFN split)) want special treatment because of the titles we've carried or the positions we filled. It's the fact we have the experience to back up the words coming out of our mouths. I'll openly admit, I'm like an old man stuck in his ways. I'm still used to the corporate feel that Icefuse had, a well-oiled machine. It isn't like that here. That makes me itch sometimes.

"The biggest problem some legacy members have with me is quite simple; I don’t give them special treatment just because they have been here a long time or they held other positions once before.

It absolutely infuriates a lot of them that I do not treat them differently because they have been here a long time and held certain positions, that I don’t accept the fact that I should listen to them because of their once held positions

Because guess what, if you go into retirement cause you are burnt and expect people to favoritise/give you special treatment because of what you once were, don’t expect me to take that route, you can fuck right off there with that.

I could ruin quite a lot of the legacy members who have contacted me to bitch about things but that's not here or there."

What gets me about the quotes above is like I said up top. It looks like you're hitting back. Being in staff, and especially high staff is a card came. It's a strategy. Politics even. You making remarks such as this IMO, doesn't look good. Maybe that's just me but we're very different people, and this is a fire. This fire is burning very very bright. I would think after this, perhaps just look at how you respond to people. Yeah I get it, were all assholes sometimes. Who isnt? But just keep it in mind

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Tristan

[Fizzik]

27 minutes ago, Spooky said:

BANDWAGONING ≠ MUTUAL AGREEMENT

the reason why the suggestion went up is because of the MUTUAL AGREEMENT from the COMMUNITY that ARQ should not be a thing/in ARC.

bbstine put across the point of what we meant in the PM screenshots

it's called nsfw section for porn, people dont walk down the street in slut suits

>talk to egg, remove egg, expect us to know about AT-RT agreement

 

on top of this

41st did not want to remove ARQ because Logic was late. We wanted to remove it because we didn't like how it was just stuck into the ARC process and how we HAD to go to it. As a response, YOU SAID TO US THAT WE HAD TO GO. Scouts are NOT ARF. We didn't have to go. We were never being malicious about it. We didn't like the idea, and how they had control over 2/3 of the land vehicles.

I'm all for community feedback and people having the opportunity to speak their mind, so, I will say this.

Who are you to think you can decide what should or should not be in the ARC or ARF program? You run neither of these programs and to be completely honest I think your ARC was even stripped. Dragon decided he wanted ARQ as a requirement for HIS ARC program so he deserves to be able to change it. Grum decided that he wanted ARQ as a requirement for HIS ARF program. These are OPTIONAL. If you want these jobs you must consort the group that leads the training for these jobs and you WILL take the training that they have set forward. If you do not like the requirements for the training, then just don't go and find another job, it's that simple. Both Dragon and Grum were VERY merciful with these requirements, they gave everyone ONE MONTH to take them or their jobs would be suspended, NOT REVOKED, until they completed the training (which btw takes like 1 hour max). Every past BCMD of RANCOR who has altered the training in any way (including myself) has wiped the entire list, so for the both of them not to wipe their lists should be taken with a lot of thanks from you guys. Instead of being grateful that they gave you a lot of leniency on it, without even giving it a shot, those opposed to the idea decided to bandwagon (and yes, bandwagon is perfectly how Chambers described it since everyone chose to oppose the training without trying it) and mass-spam suggestions for removal.

Mass dumb this all you want, I expect it. However, take heed, change is integral to keep things moving. If you're afraid of change and shoot it down every time it comes up, then you're the cause of why everything seems so slow and boring.

[Tyzen]

Guys.. everything was already decided before egg was removed from gree...  it was agreed on while egg was BCMD but then he was removed for other things that all of the high command at the time agreed with that he did not do, So he was to be removed. An as well sanchez took it over from there an you guys were told that it was going to be added on to ARC to my knowledge.

An as well ARQ was suppose to make it a simpler process to getting to ARC which was suppose to make it a easier grading scale as well so you could have more ARC in your battalion then having it be harder with less trainings. Also scouts were not suppose to be looped into the bunch unless you guys have it so you need arc training to be a scout. I don't know how you guys run scouts but they were not suppose to be looped into the bunch for ARQ/ARC whatever you require.

An as well don't bash chambers for putting up his side of things cause eventually it was cause more issues later down the line if he didn't say anything and just left it at his other posts. 

 

[Zyner]

Why are you here... The point of a forced Vacation is to take time off work and pretend like it doesn't exist. You're wasting time and the fire continues to be lit because of it.

Move. On. [For now.]

[Spooky]

12 minutes ago, Fizzik said:

I'm all for community feedback and people having the opportunity to speak their mind, so, I will say this.

Who are you to think you can decide what should or should not be in the ARC or ARF program? You run neither of these programs and to be completely honest I think your ARC was even stripped. Dragon decided he wanted ARQ as a requirement for HIS ARC program so he deserves to be able to change it. Grum decided that he wanted ARQ as a requirement for HIS ARF program. These are OPTIONAL. If you want these jobs you must consort the group that leads the training for these jobs and you WILL take the training that they have set forward. If you do not like the requirements for the training, then just don't go and find another job, it's that simple. Both Dragon and Grum were VERY merciful with these requirements, they gave everyone ONE MONTH to take them or their jobs would be suspended, NOT REVOKED, until they completed the training (which btw takes like 1 hour max). Every past BCMD of RANCOR who has altered the training in any way (including myself) has wiped the entire list, so for the both of them not to wipe their lists should be taken with a lot of thanks from you guys. Instead of being grateful that they gave you a lot of leniency on it, without even giving it a shot, those opposed to the idea decided to bandwagon (and yes, bandwagon is perfectly how Chambers described it since everyone chose to oppose the training without trying it) and mass-spam suggestions for removal.

Mass dumb this all you want, I expect it. However, take heed, change is integral to keep things moving. If you're afraid of change and shoot it down every time it comes up, then you're the cause of why everything seems so slow and boring.

I literally just told Dragon that I’m speaking for the people who do not want ARQ

[Oaks]

Don't know you well, but with the evidence and such provided in previous reports. All I can see is;

Edited December 6, 2018 by [SR] Oaks [NA]

[Egg]

28 minutes ago, royer said:

@Egg pls come back and fix 41st

 

People didnt like my way so they wanted me gone. Sorry fam.

[Egg]

Also, many people never wanted or expected special treatment from being a "legacy" member of the community. Maybe in a battalion that they were apart of but never the server itself. Many of the reasons why you would piss people off is because you would use the rank of director in ways that at some times were just plain abusive and not needed. You would ask people to trust you without giving any sort of reason to other than "I'm director, it's ok" or in some cases, "I'm director, do what I say or you're gone." Nobody cares about not getting special treatment, its using the rank entrusted to you by the leaders of the community to be a respectful leader and using it to threaten and instill fear in the members you are meant to lead. THIS is why many people dislike you and how you run things.

[Pxnda]

59 minutes ago, Medic said:

...why would you even put this up? It's been dealt with by the Chairmen, you're just restarting a put out fire. 

This. Right here. Is perfect. 

[Ron]

[Bazoo]

you might have good intention, but you do not execute them the right way most of the time. And like I said on the report you had, you can be pretty toxic and really close minded at some points. Those are the main issues I see in you whenever I had to confront you or enter a debate with you. 

[Ching]

9 minutes ago, Ron said:

You've literally made it impossible for me to take this thread seriously.

 

I've never had horrible experiences with Carter, at this point I just think it's emotional strain and such. I think everyone should just take a sip of water and relax for a second. Your execution and attitude toward every action you take does need to improve. In no way shape or form does a Community Director lash out on criticism and different opinions. This is spicey!

Edited December 6, 2018 by chhing

[Chambers]

54 minutes ago, Tristan said:

Okay. I hit enter way too early, Sorry about that.

What is this?

I understand wanting to respond to the things you're accused of. I understand that more than anyone, but this? This looks like you swinging back. You attained the position of Director, which means you put in work and was actually competent enough to make it up high.

It isn't that people like Me, or Medic, or Egg, or even Fizzik ((all people who have been around here for a hella long time, or basically anyone from the IFN split)) want special treatment because of the titles we've carried or the positions we filled. It's the fact we have the experience to back up the words coming out of our mouths. I'll openly admit, I'm like an old man stuck in his ways. I'm still used to the corporate feel that Icefuse had, a well-oiled machine. It isn't like that here. That makes me itch sometimes.

"The biggest problem some legacy members have with me is quite simple; I don’t give them special treatment just because they have been here a long time or they held other positions once before.

It absolutely infuriates a lot of them that I do not treat them differently because they have been here a long time and held certain positions, that I don’t accept the fact that I should listen to them because of their once held positions

Because guess what, if you go into retirement cause you are burnt and expect people to favoritise/give you special treatment because of what you once were, don’t expect me to take that route, you can fuck right off there with that.

I could ruin quite a lot of the legacy members who have contacted me to bitch about things but that's not here or there."

What gets me about the quotes above is like I said up top. It looks like you're hitting back. Being in staff, and especially high staff is a card came. It's a strategy. Politics even. You making remarks such as this IMO, doesn't look good. Maybe that's just me but we're very different people, and this is a fire. This fire is burning very very bright. I would think after this, perhaps just look at how you respond to people. Yeah I get it, were all assholes sometimes. Who isnt? But just keep it in mind

 

This is again the defense I would have put into my report but was denied the opportunity to do so until now.

Legacy members is a very broad term when it comes to the community and this was specifically in response to Spookys complaint about the treatment of legacy.

Again the term was broad to actually avoid flaming anyone in particular when it came to actions, unfortunately when your put under a label you get lumped in with people you might not agree with, You, Medic, Fizzik, and Egg are definitely not who this is directed too.

When you get hit you hit back, but speaking on the issues on both sides is exactly what needs to happen, I am human too and expecting me to stand by while lie(s) are told about me is not something I am willing to do.

21 minutes ago, Egg said:

Also, many people never wanted or expected special treatment from being a "legacy" member of the community. Maybe in a battalion that they were apart of but never the server itself. Many of the reasons why you would piss people off is because you would use the rank of director in ways that at some times were just plain abusive and not needed. You would ask people to trust you without giving any sort of reason to other than "I'm director, it's ok" or in some cases, "I'm director, do what I say or you're gone." Nobody cares about not getting special treatment, its using the rank entrusted to you by the leaders of the community to be a respectful leader and using it to threaten and instill fear in the members you are meant to lead. THIS is why many people dislike you and how you run things.

I would refer a bit to what I said to Tristan.

it's all subjective, isn't it? I had plenty of meetings with people about issues they were facing or a change we would like to see happen and at times we changed things one way or the other based on that.

I would think back to your initial re-app interview and the process of how we came up with the questions to ask you to see if you were still fit, and see if there really is no reason for what I am doing or I might not put the effort in to speak to people regarding issues facing the server and trying to help them better themselves.

I will re-iterate 90% of what I do founders are made of aware of it and are asked to give their input before proceeding.

I would invite you to PM me some of these instances where you think I abused my power or threated people without a discussion first.

There only two things off the top my head I ever had a fight/discussion  with you about and I don't think we changed each other's minds in the slightest but at least we talked first lol

11 minutes ago, Bazoo said:

you might have good intention, but you do not execute them the right way most of the time. And like I said on the report you had, you can be pretty toxic and really close minded at some points. Those are the main issues I see in you whenever I had to confront you or enter a debate with you. 

Bazoo me and you just never really agree on anything lol

I think our discussions usually just end up going in circles where we never go anywhere, I am pretty open minded but I think you know I bent over backward a few times to accommodate something you wanted. (If ya can't remember, PM me)

[Zyner]

This is not healthy.

[Feds]

This was blown way out of proportion...

I see both sides, ARQ being a requirement was not a good idea but the incessant badgering of Dragon and Grum's decision was very unneeded, yes Carter should not have insta-denied the suggestion but a little patience would have made none of this happen. Dragon and Grum wanted to try something new there's no problem in that we all should be able to understand that trial an error is needed to allow for more roleplay and activities for troopers to be available and we just need to voice our opinion.

[Unkindled]

MEDIC WHERE IS YOUR POPCORN @Medic

[Fizzik]

1 hour ago, Spooky said:

I literally just told Dragon that I’m speaking for the people who do not want ARQ

Same goes for them. 

[Ratio]

Why are you using the white background?

[Joah]

Alright just gonna close and lock it at this point, both sides have their minds made up. Also I like toast.