What's wrong with high command?

[Chambers]

Hey all, so there is a problem that seems to plague the Regimental Positions and we can't seem to have people hold on to them.

So my question to you all is: What do you think is wrong with HC?
If we are doing stuff right let us know, if you got suggestions put them in here.
 

is it a hierarchy problem? Do they not have clear responsibilities? Are they just not fun?

@Tyzen @Night453 (Rider) and I will be looking at this to hopefully change HC for the better.

I invite past Regs to relate their experiences @Quill Khan @Bazoo @Baelfire @Crimson @Hudson @miguz

[Luckyy]

They dont have fun u cant rank up and you get harrassed and annoyed by your batallions over small things 

[Korm]

When I was reg, I enjoyed it. I think it's more of a block. "You're incharge of a regiment. Now what?" Kind of lose things to do besides check up on your battalions/squads and then go on your secondary clones.

 

I feel Regimentals should be doing more with their Regiments. Do PVP sims, Droid sims. Ask someone to build a dupe for you to have your soldiers do something. Think of an Event, if you're not staff/game master you can always bring it to a Game master/staff member. People just need to think outside the box. Not "K, I'm above them all I win."

[Esitt]

From what I've seen and heard, its boring as shit. Keeping it real with ya, it's fun and exciting at the start then deteriorates like braincells.

[Baelfire]

It was fun being Regimental. It was fun walking around and having people instantly recognize your position. But on the real like Korm said is how it was really. It is just kind of boring, at least SOBDE reg was since you only have the 4 squads to watch and they kind of take care of themselves granted I ran in to some drama and what not but that is to be expected that high up. Just over all it takes a certain kind of person to stay as a regimental.

 

Like korm said it isn't really anything on yalls side. It is just the lack of creative regimental who don't do training's/sims/events. whatsoever. Hell I rarely saw another regimental doing a event when I was reg. Now don't get me wrong me and hudson got down on some bridge action during events. but other then that yeah. They were on their secondary's during events to get ranks

[Twelves]

High Command is a management position, a big influence as to what keeps people hooked on these games are promotions and rewards, when you hit HC, you’re treating the game like a job instead of a game, and that burns people out since they already have to deal with shit in real life. They come on to play, not to work.

[Sinister]

Doesn’t @ me as a previous reg. Hurts. 

 

Anyways, it was fun at first but once your regiment is in a good place, it’s boring as fuck. If your regiment is always in a bad place, it’s stressful as fuck. There’s also nothing to shoot for above HC, so there’s no drive to attain any goals once you’ve fixed issues in your regiment. 

 

The HC Plague isn’t something you can simply “fix”. There’s only a small number of people that actually enjoy the HC playstyle, and they don’t even play that much. 99% of people join the server to play the game. Like other people said as a Regimental CMD, it becomes more of a job than a game. 

 

“You can host sims and participate in events and blah blah” Nah. By the time you get to Regimental, sims aren’t that fun, hosting them is just boring. Speaking as the GMC, events aren’t as good as they used to be, so they’re not as fun anymore. They’re improving, but not there yet. 

 

Tl;dr It’s just not fun. I’m speaking from my personal experience in the 6ish weeks I was Specialized Regimental. My experience could be different than others, but it seems to be the common trend. 

[Fizzik]

As one of the four founding regimental commanders who has seen every regimental come and go since its inception, I can tell you with full certainty, the position is not engaging. The expectation is the same it's been since the program came out. Do training, keep the regiments working together, yadda yadda.  More of the same. Sometimes Reg CMDs don't stick around because they lack the creativity to do more than the norm (no offense) but sometimes it's just the fact that you're completely alone. The loneliness is the #1 thing. You can't be buddy-buddy with the battalions you're in charge of if you're a traditional Reg. This does not apply to SOBDE and to be completely honest I don't understand how SOBDE REG can't stick around because it's the equivalent of BCMD, it should be more fun than leading a squad. If you're buddy-buddy with your subordinates, there might be people who cry "favoritism", and even though that doesn't matter, it's still a thought in the back of just about every regimental CMD's mind.

Besides that, I believe the Regimental's duties are not clearly enough explained. You get to regimental and think "what now?" Besides the standard "do training and whatever", the ball is completely in your court to figure out what to do. Most people choose to do nothing because, as I said, the creativity is lacking. This is by no means meant to be an insult, just answering the question. HC is a completely different monster.

There's also the commonly stated argument that it becomes a job, which is absolutely the case, but, it doesn't become more of a job than HA becomes a job. The difference between HA and REG, however, is that HA constantly has stuff to do, the REG is constantly wondering what to do.

One thing I've noticed, and I may be completely wrong here, but when the new map came out, there was a lot more stuff to do for everyone except high command. Everyone's roles changed excluding theirs for the most part. Still the same old thing for them, they may as well just be back on the Venator.

The regimental ranks are among the highest ranks a clone can get but seem so insignificant. It takes a fairly decent amount of time to reach those positions, and one suggestion I can bring is to treat the people in those positions with the value they may or may not have. If there are changes that might be made to battalions in their regiment or updates or really anything, it'd be very rewarding for them to be part of that "inner circle" knowing how much they worked to get to that spot.

I know that the high command model is difficult to pull off. I could be wrong, but, I'm fairly confident this started with us in Icefuse, this is an exclusively "us" thing. In the end, the majority of failures from high command members stem from the person's lack of creativity and not the fault of the leaders of the server. It doesn't mean there can't be changes made to increase their value. I would focus on increasing its value in ways similar to how I listed. 

[JBFox]

I've been around for a while, and everything said above my response is all I've ever heard about High Command. The fact that it's boring, you don't have much to do, it's a job, it's tedious, and unfulfilling once you reach the rank you get the feeling of, "well where do I go next?". 

I don't know if there are any ways to make HC less boring, I don't think it's that easy to fix (or it would've already been fixed). It's just the nature of being High Command I guess. It's definitely not as simple as telling them to, "take part in sims", or host trainings. 

Maybe getting High Command more into running the base would be a good idea? Might help to fill the void of boredom. IDK I'm spitballing ideas.

[Nade Jones]

Atleast for SOBDE the squads are very self sustaining, it’s just maintenance and minor implementations other than that it’s hard to actually get anything done as a REG

[Spooky]

remove it

[Ron]

Seems like Reg is a filler rank only tasked with minor management of battalions under them. 

From my experience “High Cimmand” should be heavily involved and influcing the daily RP operations but just checking in on a few battalions doesn’t seem very fulfilling imo

Also from what I was told CMDRs barely even show up to CMDR meetings, where’s the organization and involvement? People only seem interested in their own battalions like a classic narcissist 

[Shakes.]

Personaly just as someone that has stayed a BCMD and not gone for a REG because of what I see happen with REGs. Most get the possition and want to go full force then after a week or two they die off and just chill or dont do shit. Idk if its the people or the position but Fizzik is right the value of the position needs to be increased. Regs need to take control more and improve RP. They need to be a leader not just a figure head.

[Qal]

As someone who is applying for regimental commander, if I am to receave the rank, know some things to do, as well as will be trying different things.

 

Something I would like to try is to get the other regiments to come battle the attack battalion in a large scale sim, as well to bring up the posibility of stepping over into the other regiments and helping them out, wether it is host some sims for them, or even partake in there meetings, so Ryder does not have to be the only one running them in the vacancy of other regimental commanders.

 

Othough, I do agree once reaching 5th Fleet Commander  on IFN, my mimdset became ok what to do now.

[Tristan]

I was around before Regimentals even became a thing, but one of the most common themes I’ve seen over the years is that people get extremely bored about half way into their term, that or too much becomes expected of them and they quit due to pressure.

Personally, I’m gonna go with Ron here, while regimentals do have some uses, it’s more a filler rank than anything and takes away the authority and stature of being the BCMD of a battalion

Every reg wants to do sims, battles, trainings. Some actually do end up doing them but in the end it almost doesn’t make a different. They become bored anyway and burnt out 

[Prince]

Most who know me know I hate HC. Not the people or having them, but for me personally it was NEVER an option. Ever. It's not once gone through my mind to be HC.

This can be slightly geared toward lore characters than anything, but also for anyone with special equipment. 

 

What you gain: 

Larger connection to more battalions

Chance to host large sums and trainings 

First steps in driving how RP is regulated 

A higher understanding in leadership

A secondary clone

A new type of RP

 

What you lose: 

A further goal

Personal connection to friends

Chance to participate in events as you will mostly be leading

Chance to participate in RP since there are already clones specialized in these things

All special equipment or lore names that make you stand out 

Activity if you do spend time on 2nd clone to have some fun in events

You are stuck to advising how clones work and this may appeal to some, but then you might drop in in-game time and be ridiculed

 

I could go on with this, but in my personal opinion you lose much more than you gain and being a BCMD/Squad lead provides so much more benefits than HC.

 

[Lix]

Im pretty sure that a majority of HC leave because the position is boring or they're burnt out from the server in general. 

[Gadget]

I feel like there is a couple of factors, one being that the server is a bit lack luster due to the map issues involving crashing and the player base being less active due to school, but the main factor i feel is some people want a progression, the only progression from Reg is Marshall now, we used to have Senior which was a mid way point and a lot of people liked the way the position work, obviously i'm not saying add it back as that won't fix it, i also feel like due to IRL issue some of the Reg's just can;t keep going, they either get burnt out, lose interest or just thought the position was more illustrious and/or easier then it was.

It's hard to say what will combat this issue, as a lot of the Reg's leave for different reasons, from school, to bored, etc. It not an issue with HC, it almost an issue with the server/player base. I know the allure a Reg position has on some people, i was suggested for Reg but decided not to, not saying i wasn't tempted thou, but many battalions are going through changes and many members don't want to leave at these crucial time. wants everything settles down more i feel like HC will bounce back but currently it's getting overruled by battalions, training and server changes.

That's just my opinion on the matter, there are exceptions of this mold but there is with everything.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Gadget

[Baxter]

Becoming Reg for SOBDE was probably the single biggest mistake I ever made when I still played.

I don't know if it was the same for other Regimentals, but moving up to that position, specifically for SOBDE was just so...boring. SOBDE at the time was pretty self sufficient, the only people I really had to worry about was SC, but that was only to help finish the tryouts that Ryx has started working on with Duck. After that was done, I pretty much had nothing left to do as that role other than go to the High Command meetings and occasionally assist in some tryouts for RC here and there. In hindsight, I could have hosted some sims and what not but everyone seemed pretty content with everything I was already doing. If I could go back and not apply for Reg, I would.

I'm not sure what the solution to this is, or if there even is one to be honest.

[Prince]

19 minutes ago, Baxter said:

I'm not sure what the solution to this is, or if there even is one to be honest.

This I 100% agree with. I don't think there really is a plain solution for us to find. You just lose too much. It's like staff right? As a previous GMM, enjoying events was not a common thing as I was critiquing them or shadowing them. Or when I was a TR wanting to blow my brains out for the next CC to DC before he was whitelisted. The good part is you get staff abilities. You can host events, sims, build, help out the server, Kyber slam defe...  I mean don't abuse your power on down-time. But with that means it can kind ruin a portion of the server for some people. So if you're both staff, HC, and god forbid on multiple lives with clone, jedi, naval then you're fucked. Activity fucked, RP aspect fucked, trying to divide work between all sections....fucked.

[Quillhan]

Ima use bullet points because I don't want to type all this stuff. These are in no particular order. This is based on my specific experience as ATK Reg for 2 months or however long it was.

1. Reg actively removes you from all your friends but keeps you close enough to feel out of the loop. You spend months grinding with certain people and then you get stuck sitting in a channel by yourself or interacting with people you don't know that well. It's the ultimate cuck.

2. As Reg you are the dad of 3-4 battalions. When I was reg I found myself dealing with problems that could easily be solved without me. There was times I felt I was the bcmd of 3-4 battalions rather than someone who is there to oversee and advise, which is what I felt was great about senior commander and I actively used the Senior Commanders and other Regimentals to aid me in decision making from my time as Rex and ATK Reg. 

3. You don't have the right to make the executive calls on battalion changing decisions because in reality you aren't around enough to know what is going on in there. If I spent a large amount of time with GM then 212th and the other battalions would go on without me. They are not waiting on you to do things. I found myself feeling alienated a lot of the times because I had no idea what was REALLY going on in those battalions. Yeah I had an idea, but I really didn't know exactly what the state of the battalions were. I was only made aware fully when dealing with situations that required my attention.

4. To me I tried to stay active and do things with battalions when I was on, but I don't really get what Regimentals are supposed to do other than to help when asked. They are a higher rank than the BCMD, but hosting sims and giving advice is something that a CMD or officer can do. I think High Command needs a complete overhaul in what they are supposed to do. During my time I felt like a glorified officer of 3 battalions.

5. The positions needs to be more appealing. Clearly mad heads have been in regimental positions and left for some reason. I have always said HC and Palpy have been a personality thing. It seems like all you need to do to be a good version of these things is to get on and host sims/handle people's bullshit. It's hard to not feel triggered when some guy who did an interview and host a sim or two occasionally for your battalion is removing or changing something in your battalion. I think that they should still be able to do this and sometimes the battalion doesn't know what's best. It doesn't make sense for someone who has been in our TS channel occasionally, never messaged in the discord, and throws a sim/event our way comes in and says this person is getting removed or this needs to change to be able to make that call. Makes no sense.

6. Second clone is cool, but there so you can do something on clone that either benefits you for Senior, which is removed, or to kill boredom. Also not being staff and HC actively makes your job 1000x harder.

Honestly some people do better in these positions than others. I think a lot of is determined where you're at when you reach these positions and what the battalions under you are like. I think HC needs a full overhaul and something about the process needs to change. I actually enjoyed my time as regimental before I started working 40 hours a week, but that ultimately made me retire. HC kinda sucks, but some people really like it. Ultimately to me HC is useless right now. I think that name Master attached to battalions could do what HC does now. Personally I think jedi should be more involved with the clones, but that is another thing. I would love to be apart of the revamping process. Again this is just my opinions from my time as Regimental. 4 people plus Rider and Tyzen cannot be aware of everything going on in each battalion to know the validity of everything. Give them some help and lets make some changes gamers.

 

[Jax]

As a former regimental heres my opinion:

1. Regimental is an end game position pretty much. If you get there that means you've been playing for a long ass time. Because of this, its very likely to get burn out after spending so much playing and grinding for the position.

2. Most battalions are self sufficient. Obviously there has been a few clear times where there was issues, but for the most part it was just running trainings and interacting with battalions.

3. Regimental is a lonely position. You can hang out with your battalions, but its not the same as being in them. Your pretty much running it solo. On top of this, people will treat you differently due to your position. You don't feel like you fit in anywhere. Its weird ordering around battalions full of people you didn't know existed until you got the position. People will treat you different due to rank, and most of the time you're the highest clone rank on with no one to keep you in check.

4. Yes you have power as regimental, but in all honestly you don't. Making major decisions for battalions or even minor ones will instantly have many people antagonize you for being too controlling or "power hungry". You have power, but using it most of the time is a poor decision. Going back to another point, most people don't like a stranger from another battalion moving up and having power over them even though they know nothing about the battalions "tradition" or style.

5. Most of the people going for regimental are doing it to escape burn out from their battalion position or are going for the power but then realize its not all that grand. The position is what you make of it, and its hard to make it good because of the servers culture.

 

In all honestly as others have said, its not just a "fixable problem". Most of the issues stem from the server culture and thats something that will take a long time to change.

 

3 hours ago, Quill Khan said:

6. Second clone is cool, but there so you can do something on clone that either benefits you for Senior, which is removed, or to kill boredom. Also not being staff and HC actively makes your job 1000x harder.

THIS so much. I swore of the staff team when I joined synergy and it was a annoying hassle to do my job and run trainings when you had go through the process of getting an admin, getting the right dupe, and then getting people to show up.

 

Also adding another thing I saw and liked from Quill's post. High Command just feels like being a glorified officer. You have one of the highest ranking and hardest to get titles on the server, but in all honestly it the work is probably easier than being a seargant getting recruits. Theres nothing to really do beside do the same monotonous stuff over and over again.

When I first got the position I asked @Fizzik for advice. He told me do something different and new that would stand out from previous regs. Thats what the server needs, more innovation in high command to create better systems and more overall enjoyment for everyone.

Damn another edit theres so much to be said: Yes, once you hit the rank its a what do I do next kind of thing. Its the end of road and the pathway isn't as clear as rank up as much as possible. Theres not work being handed you be done, or clear goals when all of your battalions are thriving. Obviously make you regiment the best you can be! But how does one do that? Training and training over and over again, and encouraging recruitment.

Basically high command feels like being a babysitter for a teenager. They don't need one except for the rare times they're being idiots.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Jax

[Ching]

I'm not a previous regimental, however there is things I see.

Yes, you literally do nothing as a Regimental Commander from what I've heard. I don't know this from experience but Regimentals are just there to set goals for battalions to reach. They're not really hands on with much and all they pretty much do (All they can do) is give suggestions on what needs to improve. Whenever they do try to step in, higher ups in battalions tend to get a little fucking offended because they feel like the reg is stepping on their toes.

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by chhing

[Freck]

I would have given High Command a go if I stuck around - Maybe it's just finding the absolute right people, however it does get stressful so maybe that's why people dip? Idk

[Bazoo]

For my part reg would be fun if it would be more usefull then just dealing with drama and being a babysitter, I dont feel like REG gain that much to do. It's better since no senior but still there not so much of use. Like one basic thing if GAMEMASTER would stop going on the reg job and being the REG themself and instead going to an actual reg and bringing him into the event room to have him do the briefing and controlling his troops via Comms/advert would already be way more fun. For now the only thing I see for a reg is a babysitter in case either the BCMD is a retard, BCMD need help or there is no BCMD. Thats all I can think of right now but Im sure I could find more but I just typed this thing as I was thinking within 5 minutes coming back home. Other then that reg would be fun

 

EDIT: whenever I became reg I felt like I wasnt as close as the squads VS when I was gregor, due to the fact I didnt have my own squad and I felt like a party pooper. but thats mainly just my point of view for that part because it was really true that reg is a party pooper. But like @Quill Khan said it kinda removes you from your friend. It is different for SOBDE reg but you still feel less closer.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Bazoo

[Jax]

1 hour ago, Freck said:

I would have given High Command a go if I stuck around - Maybe it's just finding the absolute right people, however it does get stressful so maybe that's why people dip? Idk

Tbh its easier than being a NCO. Obviously not in all cases, but most from what i've experienced and see it was a glorified officer that acted as a babysitter who usually didn't even need to be there because most of the time the battalions can run on their own.

[Woeny]

ahemm

As a previous Reg and SENIOR commander (Ha whats that 4head)

I think the main issue for it is by the time you get to any postion in HC you've already spent like 5+ months I feel grinding out ranks and shiz, And Normally when you reach HC its just not influential enough to strive the player to get on, Even when the reg/marshal host sims it just isn't enough, Its a lot more fun to go out and shoot shit and not have anyone give a single fuck what youring doing. When HC your kinda just babied because your a higher rank and more important in the GAR 

So that being my 1st reason is just the grind to get there and the time it takesa

2. Like alot of others have said you're kinda just ditching the boys you have been ranking up with and leaving to go get some cigs ya feel, Expect you do come back just for like a hr instead of life because you have to focus on many other things. @Quill Khan made a really good point on this

3. Some people just dont like being in that position not being able to go full monkey mode on a bunch a droids instead you have to  ADVERT RP half the time which is Resident Sleeper

[Stern]

I havent reached HC before but my 2 cents is that gmod is all about hierarchy and aiming for a position which keeps you going. You aim for it and you progress which feels good. Once you are at the top there is no where to go. The power that you have is still there but I suppose it gets boring after a while.

Maybe adding in a Reg of the week or different tiers of high command so they can still aim for something. Maybe even dedicating themselves to struggling battalions could be a decent goal. (Sounds cringe but it sounds right in my head)

Also I dont think there is a base ops regimental to reachout to clones which could be cool.

[Conrad]

I loved it. Maybe i'm weird. Would have stuck around in it as my only position if life wasn't life, enjoyed it more then almost anything else. Hosting sims and controlling whole battalions in battle. 10/10 would do again. 

Its just a different mindset. Its not about sitting back and fixing problem x or y. Its about being a leader and helping to get others ready to lead, or helping those that already do. Its different, if you can't change your mindset you won't be able to fit into what the role should be. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by conrad