[DIRECTORS] Regarding jedi master+ ranks

[Avavel]

Name: Avavel I Plo Koon

 

Suggestion: Reverting the decision to move Jedi General & Senior Jedi General and moving it back to its original places on the hierarchy. Getting Jedi Master is NOT as easy to get than you think. The processing of getting Jedi Master has not been once damaged or hurt on, there was ZERO need to change it. Adding more to the argument for changing it back, they have been ZERO cases with actual evidence that shows current or past Generals using the hierarchy for there own gain. On the contrary, there have been ACTUAL cases that Jedi Knights have used the hierarchy for there own gain. 

 

Implementation: Simply change it in the Training Room

 

Lore: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_General

 

Workshop content if applicable: (If no workshop content, suggest a developer or put "Require Development")

 

A Kind Reminder: All Changes to the Jedi Order. Needs to go through the Council. I don't care if you are a director or what. ALL suggestions for changes towards the order NEEDS to go through the council and then discussed upon. you do not just change it without discussion.  It has always been like that and IT will stay like that.

 

Nothing warranted such a change. if you can bring out concrete proof that the jedi general+ ranks needs to be changed. DO PM ME, Please. i NEED to know why the ranks were changed

[Andrews]

Neutral - Thank you Avavel for posting this. Even though there can be claims of favoritism in the Jedi Council, there is a little bit of it, to be honest. Getting Jedi Master can be the easiest thing if you have the right connections, but if you were like me or some other individual you would have had to work your ass off for consideration. A simple change to the actual process of getting Master, Jedi General could have been discussed and changed @Carter  but apparently, it wasn't. 

And sorry not sorry, this change would have happened a long time ago with @Freck and Square as Director and their predecessors but it didn't so, it REALLY seems fishy that all of these changes are happening now ... 

[BigZach]

+1 Bad change. Tut tut tut

[BlackiSblack]

+1 Seems fair

[traditional]

What the fuck did I miss?

[Elijah]

+1  Bad charge. Change it back

[Scribbles]

+1 

Jedi Master is rather difficult to obtain, and anything above is also alot (and i mean alot of work) to aquire

Edited September 17, 2018 by Scribbles

[Tristan]

Someone’s done pissed the Jedi off. That’s never a good sign

+1 revert the change 

[Snadvich]

+1 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Snadvich

[Freck]

+1 , dont try to fix, what doesn't need to be fixed.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Freck

[Bazoo]

why are people so triggered about it, it doesnt change anything really...  🤔

It looks like more of a power angry thing then anything else, have you tought about, making your rank as High command like it was before, but you have to be master+ and put an app on the forums for jedi generals ? that would make sens, since we all know most of the jedi order is full of favoritism and to clone to get that much power has to apply for it, so its only fair for jedi to apply to get the same power ? @Avavel

[Bazoo]

1 hour ago, Scribbles said:

+1 

Jedi Master is rather difficult to obtain, and anything above is also alot (and i mean alot of work) to aquire

Its not that hard honestly, also its not because something is hard to obtain that power should come with it, look at RC/Null tryouts, its a really hard tryouts (yes for some its really easy) but for 99% of the server its a hard one, and when passing you dont obtain more power. So the argument that its hard to obtain so it should get lot of power is terrible, find something better.

[Avavel]

@Bazoo what i am more triggered about right now is not about the rank. is it not a unspoken rule all changes related to the council Needs to go through the council.

So what if you are a director. This is a community. you do not just change what you dont like to what you like willy nilly. if so what is the point of this group of people ? just sits there and watch you do what you want?


 

 

[Bazoo]

4 minutes ago, Avavel said:

@Bazoo what i am more triggered about right now is not about the rank. is it not a unspoken rule all changes related to the council Needs to go through the council.

So what if you are a director. This is a community. you do not just change what you dont like to what you like willy nilly. if so what is the point of this group of people ? just sits there and watch you do what you want?


 

 

They do it to clone all the time, clone has no vote what so ever on rules on them. Jedi gets to vote on almost everything, its not that bad, get over it.

Also, we all know if they tried to bring this up to council it would have failed, who would +1 something that demotes them.. its just commun sens, somethings cannot be bring to council, its called conflict of interest.And im pretty sure it is director job to do this, its part of their job to manage the rules.


Also have you even take a look at my suggestion ?

Edited September 17, 2018 by Bazoo

[Avavel]

and are you sure applications are not prone to Favourtism?. I see favourtism on forums everytime a app comes up.

Hey that guy that was in my battalion and played with us alot and we are friends. let me just go +1. his app. whats the difference?

I Promote my people based on meritocracy. you do work you get rewards. you dont do shit you can stay there i dont mind

Edited September 17, 2018 by Avavel

[Rolenth]

@Avavel @Bazoo take it to PMs

[Freck]

Looking over this and discussing it further with @Carter. NGL I agree with what they did. Maybe they should have went through council but eh?

Edited September 17, 2018 by Freck

[Bazoo]

Just now, Avavel said:

and are you sure applications are not prone to Favourtism?. I see favourtism on forums everytime a app comes up.

Hey that guy that was in my battalion and played with us alot and we are friends. let me just go +1. his app. whats the difference?

Maybe for the +1 and stuff, but for the interview its a whole other thing. The application phase of a position is the small part, the big part is the interview that comes with it.

[Bazoo]

1 minute ago, Medic said:

@Avavel @Bazoo take it to PMs

why bring a debate on this in PM, I feel like its important for the people to see this so it can help them make a choice ? its not a toxic argument we are just talking about it.

[Thexan]

Let me start this by asking the question, why should the jedi high command matter in terms of equivalence to the normal high command. I've seen from the only negative reply so far that the argument against the jedi is that the role in question does not hold the difficulty of aquisition, (applying) and therefore isn't deserving of the high command authority. I'll address this from two points of lore standing and one point of basic server functionality.

Lore wise, clones could and never did outrank a master of the order, with the jedi being the defacto leaders on the ground. The only cases of them being equals to jedi were that of jedi commanders, (padawans.) This is unrealistic, but what was in place worked, and the change was unneeded.

On top of this, there shouldn't be any high command as is set up in this server. Commanders were commanders, essentially Marshal commanders led battalions, not all clones. If the change should stay, the high command should be removed to reflect the change. Jedi authority > Clone authority. Lore wise that is.

Server wise, the equalization of the ranks reflected the idea of cooperation. Jedi held a rank of power to ensure jedi behaved with clones as high command did vice versa. With the change, lines will be crossed somewhere down the line, all because someone pulls rank. It happens to the best of people, and the change made to the hierarchy only enables these incidents.

+1

[Twelves]

From what I understand, you are trying to make it so Jedi have the power equivalence of High Command without having to go through an intense application process?

[Bazoo]

12 minutes ago, Thexan said:

Let me start this by asking the question, why should the jedi high command matter in terms of equivalence to the normal high command. I've seen from the only negative reply so far that the argument against the jedi is that the role in question does not hold the difficulty of aquisition, (applying) and therefore isn't deserving of the high command authority. I'll address this from two points of lore standing and one point of basic server functionality.

Lore wise, clones could and never did outrank a master of the order, with the jedi being the defacto leaders on the ground. The only cases of them being equals to jedi were that of jedi commanders, (padawans.) This is unrealistic, but what was in place worked, and the change was unneeded.

On top of this, there shouldn't be any high command as is set up in this server. Commanders were commanders, essentially Marshal commanders led battalions, not all clones. If the change should stay, the high command should be removed to reflect the change. Jedi authority > Clone authority. Lore wise that is.

Server wise, the equalization of the ranks reflected the idea of cooperation. Jedi held a rank of power to ensure jedi behaved with clones as high command did vice versa. With the change, lines will be crossed somewhere down the line, all because someone pulls rank. It happens to the best of people, and the change made to the hierarchy only enables these incidents.

+1

I agree with that, everything makes more sens lore wise, but look at the server, its serious RP but not really, people Dont RP what so ever as clone, they RP like themself within star wars. This is what I hate. 

And I support 100% making it more lore accurate, but then Jedi general should be with a application on forums and interview, so it stops favoritism, to an extent. I am also in favor in removing High command, as a previous High command member, I think HC is mostly useless and has no reason, its not even fun to RP as HC and they have a really hard time to Fill it.

[Rogue]

@Twelves you go through the same process kinda but rather than the entire server for the app it is just the council 

[Thexan]

6 minutes ago, Bazoo said:

I agree with that, everything makes more sens lore wise, but look at the server, its serious RP but not really, people Dont RP what so ever as clone, they RP like themself within star wars. This is what I hate. 

And I support 100% making it more lore accurate, but then Jedi general should be with a application on forums and interview, so it stops favoritism, to an extent. I am also in favor in removing High command, as a previous High command member, I think HC is mostly useless and has no reason, its not even fun to RP as HC and they have a really hard time to Fill it.

(First off, I'm glad the meme rating has been picked up, as I need to include memes in all my posts.)

As a former master yourself, you should be able to see that the master process is essentially an application with a smaller audience.

Most wouldn't get it, such as the directors, but it is almost exactly the process conducted on the forums and through interview. I could see a positive from the change if it was to stop rank pulling, but as that problem is non-existent from where I am viewing the situation, I find it less about the situation and more about personal viewpoints of the directors.

[Bazoo]

1 minute ago, Thexan said:

(First off, I'm glad the meme rating has been picked up, as I need to include memes in all my posts.)

As a former master yourself, you should be able to see that the master process is essentially an application with a smaller audience.

Most wouldn't get it, such as the directors, but it is almost exactly the process conducted on the forums and through interview. I could see a positive from the change if it was to stop rank pulling, but as that problem is non-existent from where I am viewing the situation, I find it less about the situation and more about personal viewpoints of the directors.

It is kinda, but the small prob is, its a process that is only review by a small group friend, wich is why is too open to favoritism in my eyes. Im fine if it stays like this as long as jedi general isnt equal to HC, if it would be equal to HC, I think it should be a process open to the community.

[Maymays]

Gonna put it this way, Jedi Generals are not GAR High Command. Sorry not sorry. 

 

-1

[IKE]

Can someone explain to my simple mind what happened?

[Maymays]

1 minute ago, IKE said:

Can someone explain to my simple mind what happened?

Regular Jedi Generals were demoted to the rank of BCMD from RCMD

[Dragon]

-1. They all went down one, to balance them more with clones. As stated above, this practically changes nothing in terms of actual day to day RP.

[Punybob]

Imma remain neutral on this-this shouldn't be a fight or power grab I think that RCMD is okay it's not much other than you won't get the final say. You should be thankful now you don't have to deal with BCMD positions duties... 

[Tyzen]

AIght so saying that jedi generals were not high command makes absolutely no sense. They ran battalions and ran most things in the republic they were the high command of the clones and saying Like when joah ran the 501st he wasn't in charge when anakin was around thats how it should be but as well its up to bcmd giving the power. The reason we mad it like this is because for one JEDI POWER GOES WITH WHAT THE BCMDS GIVE YOU IF YOU READ THE JEDI RULES  YOU WOULD KNOW.

 SECONDLY TO EVEN GET THE RANK OF JEDI GENERAL YOU HAVE TO BE A MASTER+ WHICH IS HARD AS FUCK TO GET AND AS WELL IN ITSELF EVEN HARDER TO GET TO GENERAL CAUSE OF THE RANKING.

THIRDLY I WANNA SAY THIS AGAIN BCMDS GIVE THE RIGHTS TO THE JEDI IN THE BATTALION AND AS WELL ANOTHER REASON WE GAVE THEM RCMD IS SO THEY COULD AS WELL BAIL THERE BCMD.

 

AND AS WELL ANYTHING TO DO WITH JEDI HAS GO THROUGH COUNCIL AND YODA

AND FORGOT ONE THING THERE HAVE BEEN MULTIPLE CASES THAT WE HAVE DENIED SOMEONE A CHARACTER AND IT HAS BEEN LEFT OPEN FOR A MONTH BEFORE THEY COULD GET IT THERE IS NO FAVORITISM IN THE COUNCIL WHEN I LEFT IT WE PUT PEOPLE IN PLACES WHERE THEY EARNED IT.

+1 REVERT THIS CHANGE

[Arroyo]

-1 I really see no problem with it 

[Baelfire]

I can attest to it being hard af getting jedi master. Especially when your in a branch that is lowkey dead lol

 

change the shit back. No reason for it to have changed since in lore they were HC

ORBAT for the Grand Army of the Republic accommodated for 80 Jedi Generals in command of corps (CORPS CONSISTED OF FOUR LEGIONS) (along with a clone marshal commander) and 320 in command of legions (along with a senior clone commander).

[Jax]

6 hours ago, Bazoo said:

And I support 100% making it more lore accurate, but then Jedi general should be with a application on forums and interview, so it stops favoritism, to an extent. I am also in favor in removing High command, as a previous High command member, I think HC is mostly useless and has no reason, its not even fun to RP as HC and they have a really hard time to Fill it.

I agree and with removing high command, as former as well. Pretty fucking useless and the rare few times it is used it something that can be resolved by higher administration, and in general just leads to burnouts.

Back on to the topic of the post, -1 I really don't see the need to have it changed back and it makes more sense this way imo.

[Jorrdan]

+1

Why kids so mad Lmao.

For kids saying Master and General is easily obtained you guys on some wack shit. Its a grind. So stop acting like you know shit fam.

 

[Zyner]

I'm just generally curious where the favoritism argument is coming from in regards to the High Council, because if it were true I'd go as far as push for a Council wipe if I were a player.

[Washington]

12 hours ago, Scribbles said:

Jedi Master is rather difficult to obtain,

Clearly not if you got it

 

Anyway yeah +1 make Jedi great again 

 

[Taur]

+1

[Twelves]

The Jedi do not have to rank the same as HC, this change only benefits a small circle of individuals, not the community, if you want to rank the same as HC, then you should have to put an application up on the forums.

You don’t need that amount of power. Unless of course your goal is power, which it seems to be.

-support due to suggestion benefiting select individuals instead of entire community, as well as power grab.

[OneNiner6719]

+1

[Freck]

Theres pro's and con's to this really.

Personally I think it's a pretty okay change

But apparently even the current Yoda wasn't given their opinion?So oof?

I guess it's a 50/50 for me.

[Heart]

The Jedi council is damn near close to 100% community run, don’t touch our stuff big goberment. 

 

Honestly though, trying to compare ranks is near worthless. RCMD/BCMD for masters doesn’t matter in terms of lore and proper rp. If Obi wan tried to give an order to some 212th, and Cody gave a different order, it’s obvious that  the clones don’t get to freely choose because they’re both BCMD. Jedi are smarter, and some of them even have premonitions.  Doesn’t matter if you make Obi Wan a private in terms of the GAR, the clones are gonna listen to him over Cody.

[Esitt]

This is a Directors Decision, even though they made the rule. LOL

@Chambers and @Square

[COC4IN3]

-1 It was changed for a reason, and that shall be it. 

[Pxnda]

+1, I totally agree with this. I believe that the Jedi Order (Well, some of the masters) are based on favotism. They should be purely who put the most work in and shows that they should be a Jedi Master. 

[J.Jefferson]

Neutral. What @Andrews53 said 

Edited September 19, 2018 by J.Jefferson

[Shakes.]

Personally I dont really care either way. I see all points presented but what I want to say is that what is in lore and works in lore may or may not always work the best on a server in a video game.

Again I dont care. CG don't even have Jedi.

Plus I really only answer to Palpy (In Lore) but the server is a different story.

I arrest and or "Stun" you all the same.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Shakes.

[Chambers]

The whole HC structure will be shuffling more as we are also removing senior commander and ranks will be changing more.

We do not have to have our decisions approved by Jedi council it is a courtesy that we offer when we can

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