Jump to content

Buff the DC17m


Recommended Posts

Name: Bane

RP Rank: RCMD

Suggestion: Buff the DC17M to 270DPS

Implementation: up the damage total to 270

Lore: DC17M was a BEAST of a weapon

Weapons: rw_sw_dc17m
(If you want a modfication to a weapon/saber you must put the weapon string in the suggestion. Ex. tfa_e5 (Get this from the Q menu))

  • Dumb 1

 

Former: Captain Charger of KU, CMD Keller of KU, Commander Cody

Link to comment

-1,

Maybe I made a mistake of referencing DPS on your post Bane, but it truly isn't your standard DPS most think about when playing other shooters.

When balancing weapons in GMOD, DPS isn't always the best metric. Other variables such as tick rate, RPM, lag, hit boxes, recoil, spread etc.; all have a large effect on the viability of a weapon. Therefore, the balancing of these weapons gets harder and harder to satisfy as the comparisons between themselves are brought up.

I don't see the utility of making only a single change in this case. I'd rather someone lobby for a re-look at base loadout stats in general, and take it from there.

If you feel as though its impacting your game play this much anyways, I'd speak to GM's about lowering the health of their NPCs.

TL;DR -
     Seems like you misunderstand the weight of DPS in weapon balancing. Without any clear balancing issues currently, I see no need to tamper with your weapons stats. If that is something to be done, I'd rather it done while looking at ALL base loadout weapons.



 

  • Winner 1

🎀  𝙵𝚊𝚛𝚝 𝚂𝚖𝚎𝚕𝚕𝚊  🎀
<3

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, Guac said:

-1,

Maybe I made a mistake of referencing DPS on your post Bane, but it truly isn't your standard DPS most think about when playing other shooters.

When balancing weapons in GMOD, DPS isn't always the best metric. Other variables such as tick rate, RPM, lag, hit boxes, recoil, spread etc.; all have a large effect on the viability of a weapon. Therefore, the balancing of these weapons gets harder and harder to satisfy as the comparisons between themselves are brought up.

I don't see the utility of making only a single change in this case. I'd rather someone lobby for a re-look at base loadout stats in general, and take it from there.

If you feel as though its impacting your game play this much anyways, I'd speak to GM's about lowering the health of their NPCs.

TL;DR -
     Seems like you misunderstand the weight of DPS in weapon balancing. Without any clear balancing issues currently, I see no need to tamper with your weapons stats. If that is something to be done, I'd rather it done while looking at ALL base loadout weapons.



 

-1. If one weapon gets reworked wrong it shifts the meta which causes more buffs and nerfs and you wind up at square 1 again. 

As Guac said we're better off looking at a rework as a whole to keep things balanced.

I brought back ammo box sitting and Special Operations
I once led a sub-unit so good, it got removed,
 Current: DD CPT Deadeye, Jedi Advisor Cin Drallig
Former: GM BCMD Bacara l Serra Keto l Abraham's XO Pit Droid Final SO Commander Jet l First DD Deadeye

                                                                 spacer.png                                           

Link to comment

The 

58 minutes ago, Guac said:

-1,

Maybe I made a mistake of referencing DPS on your post Bane, but it truly isn't your standard DPS most think about when playing other shooters.

When balancing weapons in GMOD, DPS isn't always the best metric. Other variables such as tick rate, RPM, lag, hit boxes, recoil, spread etc.; all have a large effect on the viability of a weapon. Therefore, the balancing of these weapons gets harder and harder to satisfy as the comparisons between themselves are brought up.

I don't see the utility of making only a single change in this case. I'd rather someone lobby for a re-look at base loadout stats in general, and take it from there.

If you feel as though its impacting your game play this much anyways, I'd speak to GM's about lowering the health of their NPCs.

TL;DR -
     Seems like you misunderstand the weight of DPS in weapon balancing. Without any clear balancing issues currently, I see no need to tamper with your weapons stats. If that is something to be done, I'd rather it done while looking at ALL base loadout weapons.



 

The issue im having as a whole is the approach we take to balancing. Largely, this is to keep pvp "fair". My problem with this is it makes the weapons we have lack luster. These suggestions come down to trying to work with what we have while trying to skirt around permaweapons. What I actually want is an upgraded kit that substantially out performs the standard dc15a/s. Hell, I would like the 15a/s to be good in general. When I say "DPS", I mean the sum of a weapons stats that come together to create the final performance of the weapon. An officer weapon that barely gets used has no business out performing RC weapons in terms of magazine size and damage output. My thinking is this:
I don't really care about preserving PVP balance. I think there should be a "weapon progression" as you move up in the server. Subunits should have a kit that makes them more attractive than being a regular trooper, ARC should have a kit that makes getting ARC trainings desirable, and RC should have a kit that sets them far apart from everyone else due to their nature. (Limited and theoretically hard to get into). It's a simple and superficial thing that gives a sense of reward and progression for getting into a subunit or passing ARC tryouts or what have you. The issue with suggesting an overhaul is twofold: People who are highly familiar with the inner workings of what goes into deciding a weapon's stats will hit you with technical information that misses the entire point of what you're attempting to suggest or accomplish. More pressingly, permaweapons on this server stunt any sort of meaningful or satisfactory overhaul. 

TL;DR
It's not about the weapon damage, but establishing a sense of progression that's gratifying/rewarding for taking the time to progress on the server. While I agree with a full rework of our weapons, that's super unlikely and Permaweapons are a huge shadow over making unique kits. (I see this as more in line with say locking body groupers behind some sort of a leveling system over "make gun shoot better"

  • Agree 1
  • Winner 1
  • Informative 1
  • Dumb 1

 

Former: Captain Charger of KU, CMD Keller of KU, Commander Cody

Link to comment
15 minutes ago, Bane said:

The 

The issue im having as a whole is the approach we take to balancing. Largely, this is to keep pvp "fair". My problem with this is it makes the weapons we have lack luster. These suggestions come down to trying to work with what we have while trying to skirt around permaweapons. What I actually want is an upgraded kit that substantially out performs the standard dc15a/s. Hell, I would like the 15a/s to be good in general. When I say "DPS", I mean the sum of a weapons stats that come together to create the final performance of the weapon. An officer weapon that barely gets used has no business out performing RC weapons in terms of magazine size and damage output. My thinking is this:
I don't really care about preserving PVP balance. I think there should be a "weapon progression" as you move up in the server. Subunits should have a kit that makes them more attractive than being a regular trooper, ARC should have a kit that makes getting ARC trainings desirable, and RC should have a kit that sets them far apart from everyone else due to their nature. (Limited and theoretically hard to get into). It's a simple and superficial thing that gives a sense of reward and progression for getting into a subunit or passing ARC tryouts or what have you. The issue with suggesting an overhaul is twofold: People who are highly familiar with the inner workings of what goes into deciding a weapon's stats will hit you with technical information that misses the entire point of what you're attempting to suggest or accomplish. More pressingly, permaweapons on this server stunt any sort of meaningful or satisfactory overhaul. 

TL;DR
It's not about the weapon damage, but establishing a sense of progression that's gratifying/rewarding for taking the time to progress on the server. While I agree with a full rework of our weapons, that's super unlikely and Permaweapons are a huge shadow over making unique kits. (I see this as more in line with say locking body groupers behind some sort of a leveling system over "make gun shoot better"


The DC-17m and Westar already outperform in PVP vs DC15a/s, what is your point? To increase that gap would be to literally do nothing lmao. All that changes is a number on the HUD, not your actual gameplay experience. Not to mention, DPS isn't even a stat you can view. You would only be changing your damage on the rifle itself, about 2 points.

If you search for the term "buff" or "weapon buff" anywhere on this forum, you'll see why "technical information" is now being used, instead of rash and uninformed decision making which fueled the weekly "buff westar", "buff pistols", and "buff dc-17m" posts.

We have right now a fully functioning system in which weapons are balanced and serve their purpose among all classes, I don't want to fuck with it just cause someone people wanna feel special.

🎀  𝙵𝚊𝚛𝚝 𝚂𝚖𝚎𝚕𝚕𝚊  🎀
<3

Link to comment
10 minutes ago, Guac said:


The DC-17m and Westar already outperform in PVP vs DC15a/s, what is your point? To increase that gap would be to literally do nothing lmao. All that changes is a number on the HUD, not your actual gameplay experience. Not to mention, DPS isn't even a stat you can view. You would only be changing your damage on the rifle itself, about 2 points.

If you search for the term "buff" or "weapon buff" anywhere on this forum, you'll see why "technical information" is now being used, instead of rash and uninformed decision making which fueled the weekly "buff westar", "buff pistols", and "buff dc-17m" posts.

We have right now a fully functioning system in which weapons are balanced and serve their purpose among all classes, I don't want to fuck with it just cause someone people wanna feel special.

TL;DR, You don’t get it and aren’t trying, and instead of being constructive or helpful you’re dismissing the discussion out of hand

  • Winner 1
  • Optimistic 1

 

Former: Captain Charger of KU, CMD Keller of KU, Commander Cody

Link to comment
  • Coordinator

The weapon is already extremely overpowered. If you want the punch that's entire up to the GM. Not development. If we up the damage on this weapon then the droids health's will just go up to prevent the overpowerness. Overall, it'd just end up hurting the normal player? :Bruh:

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, Xaze said:

The weapon is already extremely overpowered. If you want the punch that's entire up to the GM. Not development. If we up the damage on this weapon then the droids health's will just go up to prevent the overpowerness. Overall, it'd just end up hurting the normal player? :Bruh:

The reason that DC-17m seems to be weak is because due too its high RPM some hits don't register, at least they don't on my end when ping goes up during events.

First and only Polish Director:pepeSheesh:

Link to comment
6 minutes ago, Black said:

The reason that DC-17m seems to be weak is because due too its high RPM some hits don't register, at least they don't on my end when ping goes up during events.

So the real solution is to just lower ping. @Xaze will fix this asap.

  • Funny 1

spacer.pngspacer.png

Link to comment
  • Coordinator

It's not ping, it's hit reg on the modified source engine gmod runs off of. Waiting for source 2 on S&Box. :) From what Jayarr, Maxwells, and I test Hit Reg is pretty solid. 

 

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Xaze said:

It's not ping, it's hit reg on the modified source engine gmod runs off of. Waiting for source 2 on S&Box. :) From what Jayarr, Maxwells, and I test Hit Reg is pretty solid. 

 

 So it’s a GMOD issue and not a development issue. The westar will appear to fire faster during low pop and slower during high pop, is that ping or an engine issue?

 

Former: Captain Charger of KU, CMD Keller of KU, Commander Cody

Link to comment
On 1/24/2023 at 11:51 AM, Xaze said:

It's not ping, it's hit reg on the modified source engine gmod runs off of. Waiting for source 2 on S&Box. :) From what Jayarr, Maxwells, and I test Hit Reg is pretty solid. 

 

Thank God, I'm so happy you said this. I always call out the ass hit reg and I get responses of "your ping in fine". Anyway I'm gonna stay neutral in this one

Former: 187th ARCO, DU ARCO x4, DU ARCL x2, 501st ARFL, Prudii Skirata, Alpha-22 AvenAlpha-98 Nate Current: DU 1stLT GreenBean

 

Link to comment
On 1/24/2023 at 3:19 PM, Bane said:

 So it’s a GMOD issue and not a development issue. The westar will appear to fire faster during low pop and slower during high pop, is that ping or an engine issue?

for me its the opposite. The RT97C will triple its firerate with high ping but never hit

I brought back ammo box sitting and Special Operations
I once led a sub-unit so good, it got removed,
 Current: DD CPT Deadeye, Jedi Advisor Cin Drallig
Former: GM BCMD Bacara l Serra Keto l Abraham's XO Pit Droid Final SO Commander Jet l First DD Deadeye

                                                                 spacer.png                                           

Link to comment

This suggestion needs to be specified more. The current problem with the dc17m is the fire rate being way too high making the hit reg eat shit 90% of the time. Just put in a suggestion to lower the fire rate by 20-30% and increase the damage to maintain its dps rating. the dc17m will feel much better to shoot that way. Keeping weapons balanced is not just for pvp (which is entirely useless to worry about as long as civilian faction is dead), the balancing allows events to be ran cohesively without players speed running through npcs beyond what the gm can handle.

 

spacer.png

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...