[CWRP] Kelso's Ban Appeal

[Kelso]

RP Name/Steam Name  Kelso/ZT Death
Steam ID:  STEAM_0:1:60324373
Date of Ban: Not really sure.
Length of Ban: Permanent.
Offense: The reason given for my blacklist in 212th was "Holding 212th Intel Docs Hostage", Chambers' interpretation was; "Fucking with Documents..."
Banned By: Don't know.
Why should we unban you/shorten the ban period?: I believe my ban was a result of a misunderstanding. What happened was that I had the ownership of all of the 212th documents as I was the Intel Director, I then had all of my ranks and titles removed as I went increasingly inactive. During that time I didn't only stop playing GMOD, but also anything else on my PC. After some time they realized I still had the ownership of the documents, a fact that I forgot about as well. I was later asked to give the documents to Perry, which I partially (1) did. As I had given Perry the ownership of the folders, he was able to duplicate the docs and create new folders instead of waiting for me (I assume this is what he did).  Now I'll get back to why I think all of this was just a misunderstanding. As there's about an 8-hour difference between USA and Turkey, Perri might've thought that I was ignoring him on purpose since the timestamps of the messages he'd sent me vary from 2:58 PM to 6:46 PM. Things would probably work better if he did not ignore me afterward as I think I would be able to explain myself better. I was banned for "holding the docs hostage", but that is not the case whatsoever as even I had no idea that I still had the ownership of them. I also would not hand them over if I was, in fact, holding them hostage. I poured hours of my time, even pulled all-nighters at some point (which might not seem too extreme to some of you) to support and grow not only the 212th itself but the community as I was also a staff member at some point. 
Evidence to support your claims: 

I sent the last 2  messages at 10:58 PM, then logged off to go to sleep as I was sick. 
(1) I said partially because I did not know that I also had to transfer the ownership of every single document.

Timestamps for the first 2 messages after he says "yea its weird" are 11:11 PM and 11:14 PM and the other 2 are 1:58 AM and 2:15 AM, while I was asleep.

He says that he's got them at 2:46 AM while I was still sleeping, I ask whether I was banned at 6:09 AM.  Last 2 were sent at 2:08 PM.

 

 

Months later I asked Chambers whether I was banned:
 

I believe there is nothing to clarify about these messages. 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Kelso

[Buuged]

+1

[Pythin]

+1 

[Baelfire]

+1. If there is proof of him deleting the stuff then I will change it. But atm it just seems like conclusions were jumped to without proof.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Baelfire

[Luckyy]

+1

[IKE]

+1 lmao

[traditional]

+1

[Mike]

+1 what a quality ban lmao

[Fizzik]

+1

 

Edit: Changing to -1 due to recent evidence.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Fizzik

[Bazoo]

+1  "Billiamed that shit" LMAO

[Firat/Abi]

+1 If thats all the messages then im chocked. Well if you were sick then fuck the game lol 

[Life-]

+1

[Lix]

+1 I guess chambers is wrong 

[Bobonater3]

+1

[Matra]

+1

[Hero]

+1

[zoink]

+1  People need to look over reports and grab some evidence before they just go gung-ho and ban people

[Switzer]

+1

From what I've seen, usually, the majority of these appeals regarding doc tampering is just simple misunderstanding with an unaware cucking somewhere throughout the incident.

[Chambers]

So I am going to put these things here.

The images are out of order because I am on my phone but there are changelogs of him revoking all the access and that's when I banned him and waited for him to explain it to Striker and Perri.

As far as I know, the situation was never resolved because no contacted me saying he had returned the documents or explained himself to Perri and Striker.

Kelsos Blacklist in 212th still stands to my knowledge because of his actions.

Revoking documents/deleting them is a malicious act against the community and is a perma bannable offense.

 

 

[Bbstine]

8 minutes ago, Carter said:

So I am going to put these things here.

The images are out of order because I am on my phone but there are changelogs of him revoking all the access and that's when I banned him and waited for him to explain it to Striker and Perri.

As far as I know, the situation was never resolved because no contacted me saying he had returned the documents or explained himself to Perri and Striker.

Kelsos Blacklist in 212th still stands to my knowledge because of his actions.

Revoking documents/deleting them is a malicious act against the community and is a perma bannable offense.

 

 

I mean, Perri had the documents lol. Regardless of proof or not on revoking access on a document that was copied to be considered stealing is outrageously stupid. Also, who the fuck keeps giving "Intel Directors" ownership, it should be left to the BCMD always.

Also if he did want to fuck things up revoking access is silly, as he said, "Why not straight Billiam that shit."

I swear, every single ban reason that's permanent is damage done to Synergy but realistically how I see it is everything that gets deleted is remade and becomes way nicer, or it's gone forever *cough RM models and Jayarr* 

 

Also permanents are big dumb.

Unban the guy +1

 

And yes I did wake up, look at this just to comment on it, because voice of reason and all.

Later.

[Esitt]

who cares if he revoked the access, Perri has all the documents. He handed them over, and Perri made copies like a smart mate. It really wasn't that malicious, and didn't need to result in a perma ban.

+1

[Baelfire]

Personally this seems like this was caused by a very half-assed attempt to resolve all of this before the ban by all party's involved. I stand by my +1 to unban.

[Chambers]

I think it's pretty clear at this point that at no point is it clearly stated that Perri did not have ownership of the documents at the time of the ban.

There is a clear difference in the dates with communication being made.(happening over a 4 day period) (Oct 1st is when doc access was revoked)

1. I am contacted saying that someone has not transferred 212th docs to the BCMD. (Intel director being removed)

2. I am then informed that access has been removed from said documents.

3. The owner of the documents has stopped responding to messages from BCMD and others.

4. Kelso is then banned for holding documents hostage

5. Striker then makes copies by screenshotting every document.

Recreating documents from screenshots is alot of hard work that shouldn't even need to happen.

This didn't happen in a span of hours it was days and not explanation was made to Perri or Striker to my knowledge or I was never informed the suitation had been resolved one way or the other.

Kelso not once tried to reach out to me during this suitation even though he knew I had banned him.

He did reach out almost a month and a half later asking me about the ban, he didn't bother explaining himself so I told him to come appeal.

Again this explanation is one sided and to change the permissions on the documents like it happened takes specific actions as I understand it.

I'm not against Kelso's appeal but there is a clear lack of Kelso attempting to explain himself during the situation. If he had written or attempted to communicate like he has in this appeal this would likely would have been resolved almost 3 months ago

[IKE]

This should’ve been done earlier but @Perri @Striker can we also get your side of the story because right now it’s a game of he said she said

[Striker]

17 minutes ago, Carter said:

I think it's pretty clear at this point that at no point is it clearly stated that Perri did not have ownership of the documents at the time of the ban.

There is a clear difference in the dates with communication being made.(happening over a 4 day period) (Oct 1st is when doc access was revoked)

1. I am contacted saying that someone has not transferred 212th docs to the BCMD. (Intel director being removed)

2. I am then informed that access has been removed from said documents.

3. The owner of the documents has stopped responding to messages from BCMD and others.

4. Kelso is then banned for holding documents hostage

5. Striker then makes copies by screenshotting every document.

Recreating documents from screenshots is alot of hard work that shouldn't even need to happen.

This didn't happen in a span of hours it was days and not explanation was made to Perri or Striker to my knowledge or I was never informed the suitation had been resolved one way or the other.

Kelso not once tried to reach out to me during this suitation even though he knew I had banned him.

He did reach out almost a month and a half later asking me about the ban, he didn't bother explaining himself so I told him to come appeal.

Again this explanation is one sided and to change the permissions on the documents like it happened takes specific actions as I understand it.

I'm not against Kelso's appeal but there is a clear lack of Kelso attempting to explain himself during the situation. If he had written or attempted to communicate like he has in this appeal this would likely would have been resolved almost 3 months ago

I'm going to start off by saying I apologize for not informing you further of what had happened with the docs. But we didn't end up having to remake the doc, I don't remember exactly how Perri got access but eventually he did. And Perri ended up making copies of all the docs before they could get deleted. 

As for the "holding the docs hostage" part yeah, he did end up doing it and from what it was looking like this was all on purpose. Kelso had already been extremely inactive before this and got removed. So naturally one would assume this was being done on purpose. Top that with the fact that he didn't explain himself well at all and that lead to his ban. This was all extremely worrying for all the 212th. 

Now, after looking at this my opinion is that he should be unbanned. However stressful this was and as much as I still to this day strongly dislike Kelso for his terrible attitude towards me specifically I think he should be unbanned. It might have been a misunderstanding or he might have done it on purpose. But there would really be no harm is bringing him back to the server. THAT BEING SAID, he will not be unblacklisted from the 212th. For reasons I just stated above and because he still "held the docs hostage". I don't think I can trust him being on the 212th anymore. 

+1

[Kelso]

Just to clarify:
 

42 minutes ago, Carter said:

I think it's pretty clear at this point that at no point is it clearly stated that Perri did not have ownership of the documents at the time of the ban.

There is a clear difference in the dates with communication being made.(happening over a 4 day period) (Oct 1st is when doc access was revoked)

1. I am contacted saying that someone has not transferred 212th docs to the BCMD. (Intel director being removed)

2. I am then informed that access has been removed from said documents.

3. The owner of the documents has stopped responding to messages from BCMD and others.

4. Kelso is then banned for holding documents hostage

5. Striker then makes copies by screenshotting every document.

Screenshot_20190128-155157_Discord.jpg

Recreating documents from screenshots is alot of hard work that shouldn't even need to happen.

This didn't happen in a span of hours it was days and not explanation was made to Perri or Striker to my knowledge or I was never informed the suitation had been resolved one way or the other.

Kelso not once tried to reach out to me during this suitation even though he knew I had banned him.

He did reach out almost a month and a half later asking me about the ban, he didn't bother explaining himself so I told him to come appeal.

Again this explanation is one sided and to change the permissions on the documents like it happened takes specific actions as I understand it.

I'm not against Kelso's appeal but there is a clear lack of Kelso attempting to explain himself during the situation. If he had written or attempted to communicate like he has in this appeal this would likely would have been resolved almost 3 months ago

The screenshots of our dialogue with Perry is the only attempt of communication with me regarding the situation, and I responded to him as quickly as I could. Perri's first message regarding the situation ("..." one) was sent on October 2nd, at 8:31 AM, I respond at 8:41 AM and then tell him that I am unable to transfer the docs as I wasn't home. I was traveling to my house from my summer-house via car, which took about 10 hours, as I was also sick, I went to sleep as soon as I got home. The next day (Oct 3rd) he says "ok. how long?" at 1:11 AM, while I'm asleep, then the emoji at 7:48 AM.  I respond about an hour later, stating why I was not able to transfer the docs that day. I give him the ownership of the files, but do not realize that transferring the files do not affect the docs themselves. Perri realizes this and tells me so at 10:46 PM and I tell him I will transfer them as well. I guess at this point I should've told him that I was going to sleep and would transfer them the next day (but too late for that I guess). Now I'm not going to say that I DID NOT remove the edit access permissions of people, and not going to lie either, I don't really remember why I did so. But I did not hold the docs hostage or did not have the intentions to do so. 
I also am more than certain that they did NOT recreate the docs from screenshots. I know this as Perri did send me an invitation to collaborate to the newer folders, most likely without meaning to do so. 

He had duplicated the documents as I had thought. If one goes to view the historic meetings, some of the only documents that Perri did not transfer to Striker as they are mostly unuseful, they all have the same date of October 2nd, because that's when Perri initially duplicated the documents. 

Striker did take screenshots of the docs, good on him for acting cautiously, but did not need to do so. 
I did not pursue the matter further as Perri went on to ignore me, and I was already burned out from the server, and mostly because of the prior reason the outcome didn't really bother me.
I did not attempt to contact Striker as he did quite dislike me. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Kelso

[IncognitoXYZ]

+1

[Lord Thegan]

Mhhh hard case i must say, i would say +1 and unban the man, let him roam free on the server...but don't get him near a Document or something

[Perri]

Alright,

Basically when we found out everyone got their access removed and then we checked the logs that kelso removed everyone's edit access.  At the time some of us thought Kelso did this to try and hurt the battalion because he got removed and demoted.

However, 

Kelso did cooperate with me and giving me edit access back so I could duplicate the files incase he "Billiamed" the documents which didn't happen. Later on he gave me ownership. Then I Blacklisted him from the 212th.

So everything did get situated. As for being Perma banned on the server I don't feel he should be banned anymore. As for Perma Blacklist from 212th, well that's not down to me anymore, but too Cody and the Cody's in the future.

+1

 

[Valkyri3]

+1 serious roleplay is big gay on all the servers anyways

[Logic]

I guess+1 

 

From what I’m getting is you were feeling a tad salty from your removal and revoked access but immediately felt bad and helped perri with the shit

 

I don’t buy the “I don’t know why I revoked access” but oh well

 

I mean he didn’t edit it to say DEATH TO STRIKER so I mean maybe it isn’t all intentional

 

Please never come anywhere near my docs though I try hard on them all ❤️

Edited February 1, 2019 by [SR]Logic[SA]

[Thexan]

+1

[OneNiner6719]

+1 sure, potential to hurt the docs... but there's an easy solution to that

Don't give the man fucking docs after unban.

ezpz, problem solved.

[Freck]

Just saying this is why we don't let people apart from the BCMD own the documents, fuck your "ITD" role, to be them the permissions they need and the BCMD should own all documents, therefore if they go AWOL you still have the docs. 

Neutral

[Beast]

On 1/29/2019 at 1:54 AM, Perri said:

Alright,

Basically when we found out everyone got their access removed and then we checked the logs that kelso removed everyone's edit access.  At the time some of us thought Kelso did this to try and hurt the battalion because he got removed and demoted.

However, 

Kelso did cooperate with me and giving me edit access back so I could duplicate the files incase he "Billiamed" the documents which didn't happen. Later on he gave me ownership. Then I Blacklisted him from the 212th.

 So everything did get situated. As for being Perma banned on the server I don't feel he should be banned anymore. As for Perma Blacklist from 212th, well that's not down to me anymore, but too Cody and the Cody's in the future.

+1

 

+1 Because of this reasoning. 

[Craigary]

+1 cmon striker and Perri both agreed the perma is too much.

[BigZach]

+1 [insert repetitive essay]

[Nade Jones]

I've known Kelso for the majority of my time here as synergy before he left he was a hardworking obedient and reliable person from my perspective I wouldn't believe that someone like Kelso would do something like this, I'm sure there was some kind of misunderstanding...

 

+1

[TayTay]

+1 Omega Fucking Lul

[SmallJeff]

+1 well he didn't try to hurt the battalion acording to the higher officers that were involved

[DEVGRUMarksman]

+1 The situation was resolved and dissolved, both parties agreed that a 212th Blacklist was good enough and the permanent ban was too harsh as he did give Perri Ownership and did not hold the docs hostage. Like Freck said, as BCMD keep ownership of the docs, even if they are ITD they really don't need Ownership access. 

[Chambers]

Seems like this was resolved long ago and there was a failure of communication.

The user wasn't even banned in-game?

Let's just move on at this point

Ban appeal accepted