Enable extremely useful material command

[Brian-Limmon]

Name: Brian Limmond

RP Rank: SFC

Suggestion: Allow the use of the material_override command on the server.

Implementation: The command is currently useable on singleplayer with no addons enabled, so it must have been specifically disabled on the server either intentionally or due to a conflicting addon.

Description:

The mat_texture_list 1 command is currently useable on the server, this command allows you to copy the path for literally ANY material that is currently loaded in the game, this includes ALL PROP MATERIALS, CERTAIN WORLD MATERIALS and all character model materials. When copying any materials path, normally, you can then type into console "material_override (path)" and your material tool will then allow you to paste said material onto any prop of your choice.

I don't think I need to explain how extremely useful this would be for creation on the server, the current set of materials GMs have to work with is fairly limited and plain, however, with this command ANY props material could be used in any way they like. Props like the ships often have a single material for the entire thing and often look extremely interesting when mapped out onto a flat surface. Props in general also often have extremely detailed textures, and would 100% allow for a massive level of increased creative freedom when it comes to designing many dupes on the server.

As I mentioned, the command is usually useable by default on Gmod, so I'm not sure what has disabled it on the server. It doesn't cause any lag or require any file space as it only lets you use textures that are already on the server so my best guess is that maybe an addon currently conflicts with it. Or maybe the material tool we have on the server is not the default Gmod one, which would mean the command wouldn't work. Either way, I'm not absolutely certain why it's disabled so I'm sorry I can't give a solution here, all I can suggest is that it be looked into because this command is insanely useful speaking from experience, one of the most useful in Gmod honestly.

Workshop content if applicable: N/A, Require development

Demonstration of how it works:

https://streamable.com/ddxp36

 

 

[Guac]

With the assumption that this would work as intended, +1. Great suggestion!

[Stockings]

+1 Same with what Guac said

 

[Jayarr]

The base game feature is debatable in functionality in a multiplayer environment.

I've done private testing with this feature in the past on a server, and my friends noticed a momentary FPS drop whenever someone would open the menu. In my opinion, what minimal strain this can cause on a private server of no less then 3 people may become a more prevalent issue with 50+ people at a time.

This isn't that big of an issue by itself as server specs vary, but there's a few others things about this feature that are equally debatable on if it should be allowed. For example, lets say someone who has experience in rooting materials in source gets hold of this. With the inbuilt rebuild VTF feature, they could ultimately change whatever texture they choose if they root it to the right path. This can very easily be abused. For example, someone could change say an event jobs material and replace it with a bright pink material to see it at all times. This is a very extreme example, as the majority of the server wouldn't even know how to do this. But in the instance that someone does wish to, it would easily be accessible to them.

That said, this is all a bit nitpicky in terms of it's functionality. If it helps, there are multiple material editor addons out there with similar functions and more.
I personally utilize this one when blocking out maps, due to the texture scaling option, but that said it also has one or two issues.

For the concept itself, definitely +1
For the means of accomplishing it, not so certain

Edited November 9, 2021 by Jayarr

[Brian-Limmon]

29 minutes ago, Jayarr said:

The base game feature is debatable in functionality in a multiplayer environment.

I've done private testing with this feature in the past on a server, and my friends noticed a momentary FPS drop whenever someone would open the menu. In my opinion, what minimal strain this can cause on a private server of no less then 3 people may become a more prevalent issue with 50+ people at a time.

This isn't that big of an issue by itself, but there's a few others things about this feature that are equally debatable on if it should be allowed. For example, lets say someone who has experience in rooting materials in source gets hold of this. With the inbuilt rebuild VTF feature, they could ultimately change whatever texture they choose if they root it to the right path. This can very easily be abused. For example, someone could change say an event jobs material and replace it with a bright pink material to see it at all times. This is a very extreme example, as the majority of the server wouldn't even know how to do this. But in the instance that someone does wish to, it would easily be accessible to them.

That said, this is all a bit nitpicky in terms of it's functionality. If it helps, there are multiple material editor addons out there with similar functions and more.
I personally utilize this one when blocking out maps, due to the texture scaling option, but that said it also has one or two issues.

For the concept itself, definitely +1
For the means of accomplishing it, not so certain

Thats very strange that opening the menu caused lag for your friends, it should only cause clientside lag, having played on a server with 128 players and using this feature lag has never been an issue with it before, the only FPS drops that come from it is when you check "show all materials" which loads every material at once and even then it is, again, clientside and only causes a 5 second lag spike until they're fully loaded.

As for the second part I'm not really sure what you mean by this as I personally have never heard of that aspect of it myself before, though obviously restrictions could be put in place so that only people who are Admin or GM are able to actually utilize this, severely lessening the possibility of abuse.

That workshop addon you suggested would also be a good way of getting this implemented though. As long as we can actually take props materials and paste them onto other props it would make for a massive increase in creative freedom either way

[Jayarr]

40 minutes ago, Brian-Limmon said:

Thats very strange that opening the menu caused lag for your friends, it should only cause clientside lag, having played on a server with 128 players and using this feature lag has never been an issue with it before, the only FPS drops that come from it is when you check "show all materials" which loads every material at once and even then it is, again, clientside and only causes a 5 second lag spike until they're fully loaded.

We questioned the extent of why it caused lag as well. Maybe it can't be narrowed down to anything other then coincidence, but who knows. It likely wouldn't be a prevalent issue, but it is 100% worth stating that it happened and has may have a chance of happening on the server.
 

40 minutes ago, Brian-Limmon said:

As for the second part I'm not really sure what you mean by this as I personally have never heard of that aspect of it myself before

In short, you can utilize the "where is" button to figure out the path of where the material is located, then you can replicate that path and VTF it lists off, make your own material, then press rebuild VTF for it to read from that path instead of the addon itself. Typically you can imagine this is used by map devs to quickly test what a different material would look like, but it can be used to do otherwise questionable changes

40 minutes ago, Brian-Limmon said:

though obviously restrictions could be put in place so that only people who are Admin or GM are able to actually utilize this, severely lessening the possibility of abuse.

Seeing as I doubt this has been done before in the past, that'd require some digging on the founders end to see if they could even make a lua to add restrictions to the menu, which keep in mind is inbuilt

Ultimately it isn't that harmful, but seeing as people were questioning reasons for as why it could be disabled, I gave feedback to that. I doubt the base feature could be used for much harm, but I think it's better safe then sorry to go for an addon specifically developed for this function instead of a sketchy inbuilt system

Edited November 9, 2021 by Jayarr

[Brian-Limmon]

1 hour ago, Jayarr said:

In short, you can utilize the "where is" button to figure out the path of where the material is located, then you can replicate that path and VTF it lists off, make your own material, then press rebuild VTF for it to read from that path instead of the addon itself. Typically you can imagine this is used by map devs to quickly test what a different material would look like, but it can be used to do otherwise questionable changes

So would this then be a clientside change that anyone could in theory do? If so I can definitely see how that would be tricky to put a lid on, though since it is only clientside, it wouldn't be that large of an issue given theres very little really competetive situations that actually happen on the server where this would give someone an advantage, plus with the effort and knowledge it takes to actually do it I think the benefits that come with adding mat override would far outweigh these risks imo

[Jayarr]

3 minutes ago, Brian-Limmon said:

So would this then be a clientside change that anyone could in theory do? If so I can definitely see how that would be tricky to put a lid on, though since it is only clientside, it wouldn't be that large of an issue given theres very little really competetive situations that actually happen on the server where this would give someone an advantage, plus with the effort and knowledge it takes to actually do it I think the benefits that come with adding mat override would far outweigh these risks imo

It would be client sided, and I generally don't think that changing anything around on the server should be encouraged. Especially if it can be used for an advantage in any scenario. It does take know-how, but that doesn't change the fact of how easy it is in the long run. Like I said, I doubt it would be an issue, but it certainly has potential to cause a stir. In my opinion it shouldn't even be given a chance to start causing issues if it's viable that they can be caused. Cut off the head before it can bite, per say

And fun fact about client side stuff, I actually was banned once by mods (if you know who that is) years back because I was utilizing a client side script for bhops, showing how much of a concern some client side changes can be. This obviously isn't that major, but allowing them in general can lead to unwanted side effect imo

[Brian-Limmon]

12 minutes ago, Jayarr said:

It would be client sided, and I generally don't think that changing anything around on the server should be encouraged. Especially if it can be used for an advantage in any scenario. It does take know-how, but that doesn't change the fact of how easy it is in the long run. Like I said, I doubt it would be an issue, but it certainly has potential to cause a stir. In my opinion it shouldn't even be given a chance to start causing issues if it's viable that they can be caused. Cut off the head before it can bite, per say

And fun fact about client side stuff, I actually was banned once by mods (if you know who that is) years back because I was utilizing a client side script for bhops, showing how much of a concern some client side changes can be. This obviously isn't that major, but allowing them in general can lead to unwanted side effect imo

I get that it has potential to cause trouble, but I do think that it is a very limited potential and, like I said, the benefits gained from GMs having such a useful tool far outweigh said risk. Of course the addon you suggested would be ideal and I really hope that it gets added instead now, I'm only saying this just in case for what ever reason it can't be added, in which case I still think material_override should be enabled because however this feature gets added this really would be a small but very very useful change despite these downsides.

[Maverick]

Unfortunately, this suggestion has been DENIED.

If the same suggestion is submitted again within 60 DAYS of this post it will be automatically denied.

// LOCKED
// MOVED TO [CW] SERVER SUGGESTIONS - DENIED
 

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